Kris in Wis Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 I'm looking at Classical Writing for my 7th grader, and am curious to know if it is more grammar or more writing? He's been using Abeka for grammar and doing well, so we really don't need to learn to identify types of sentences and parts of speech and their usage, etc. I just want a good program that will help him write well, without all the frills (IEW is out, because it is too expensive, and he is my last child). Does Classical Writing just cover paragraph and essay writing? Or is other types of writing (descriptive, story writing) covered as well? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in CA Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 Just giving this a bump for you. ;) You probably should specify what level of CW you are considering for your 7th grader. Each 'level' teaches something different from what I understand. I do have CW Older beginner and I do know that it covers quite a bit of grammar, but since I have not used it yet...at all...I do not feel I can answer any of your questions adequately. I don't believe CW OB teaches any type of essay writing. I believe it is rewriting narratives only. For the record, my son doesn't really need more grammar either, but upon looking through my CW OB...he is going to learn a ton of things that will be very good for him. Completing grammar lessons in a workbook is one thing, completing what is included in CW is quite another altogether. It's rather frightening. :ohmy: :scared: :blink: :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in CA Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 By the way, have you looked at IEW's Theme-based books? I know that many people use them sucessfully without having used any of the expensive DVD sets. That would actually cost MUCH less than CW, which cost me more than an IEW SWI DVD set would have. So, if price is a factor, you may want to look at an IEW Theme-based book instead. Just thinkin' outloud for ya...;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris in Wis Posted May 25, 2009 Author Share Posted May 25, 2009 Yeah, I was looking at History Based writing lessons (IEW). I wondered if you needed all the DVD's and other stuff to use that effectively. As far as CW goes, I was looking at their Aesop and Homer for students in grade 6-8. I think that's the Older Beginner one you're referring to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Lynx Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 Kris, CW's writing is very different from most other writing programs. Older beginners focuses *only* on rewriting narratives. Yes, there is a great deal of grammar. CW also recommends study of a grammar program alongside CW. you can easily choose not to do a grammar program, but the grammar done in CW itself is definitely worthwhile. If you're not familiar with the progymnasmata, you might want to read over CW's website to familiarize yourself. Essay writing starts to be covered in the next level, CW Diogenes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siloam Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 Yeah, I was looking at History Based writing lessons (IEW). I wondered if you needed all the DVD's and other stuff to use that effectively. As far as CW goes, I was looking at their Aesop and Homer for students in grade 6-8. I think that's the Older Beginner one you're referring to? You could easily continue with Abeka grammar as long as he has the skills needed to do the work in Homer (Aesop doesn't work with grammar much). In Homer he will need to identify parts of speech for the purpose of substituting them with synonyms, change from common to proper nouns (and proper to common), change tense, rewrite the sentence in a different sentence type, all for the purpose of providing many choices to use to improve their writing with. The child doesn't start this all at once, but works on learning one new one a week (I think, the regular pace Homer has you learn a new one every few weeks). Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrison_B Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 Hi Kris, I have both CW - Older Beginner and CW - Diogenes/Maxim. In both programs, you will learn how to analyze pieces of literature (fables, narratives and maxims) and rewrite them based on a structured format. CW-OB has a fair amount of grammar. CW-Diogenes teaches the progymnasmata using maxims/morals ( i.e. Encomium, Paraphrase, Cause, Opposite, Analogy, Example, Testimony, and Epilogue). At the completion of CW-Diogenes, the student will complete a five-paragraph essay. I love this program because it is forcing both my ds to think. Their weakness is grammar, so this writing program is a perfect match for them. It is a different type of writing using a different type of logic. However, I haven't seen descriptive or creative story telling within the curriculum. IMO, I don't think this is what you want - I could be wrong. I would hate to steer you clear of a great curriculum, but I would also hate for you to purchase something that doesn't meet your needs. Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Lynx Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 You *can* be creative with your storytelling in the retelling of the narratives ... but that is as much creative writing as this program does. We use it and love it, but Terri is right. If you need a program that will teach a variety of kinds of writing, doing several different kinds a year, then CW might not be a good fit for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siloam Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 You *can* be creative with your storytelling in the retelling of the narratives ... but that is as much creative writing as this program does. We use it and love it, but Terri is right. If you need a program that will teach a variety of kinds of writing, doing several different kinds a year, then CW might not be a good fit for you. My oldest always changes the setting and the characters. It is always a lot of fun to see what she comes up with. Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris in Wis Posted May 26, 2009 Author Share Posted May 26, 2009 If you need a program that will teach a variety of kinds of writing, doing several different kinds a year, then CW might not be a good fit for you. I guess my concern at this point is helping my ds learn to write well. I don't want another grammar program, because his grammar is strong - that's not the problem. The problem is composing good, coherent paragraphs, with good description and supporting detail. Although his sentence structure is good, his paragraphs are choppy, with no supporting details or transitions from one thought to another. Kind of erratic, you might say. I'm having trouble because my older three children were all very good writers, and the things I used with them don't seem to be working for my youngest. I sure do appreciate all your input!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Lynx Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 Kris, CW teaches in a very different way than most writing programs. The grammar in CW is really integral to the writing process. For example, in Homer the student takes a sentence from the weekly model, and: * Parses and diagrams it * Uses synonym substitution to rewrite it * Changes the grammar to rewrite it * Rewrites it to make it shorter, more concise * Rewrites it to make it longer, more descriptive When your child is done with that, boy, can they work a sentence! :) Paragraph structure is not taught in Aesop or Homer, just narrative structure. Paragraph structure is taught in Diogenes. Have you looked into IEW? IEW specifically teaches paragraph construction. Hmmm. My oldest struggles with writing, too. He just turned 13 in January. He really did not write well with Aesop, or with Homer. I did take some time off of Homer to work with him on just writing simple paragraphs. Then we dived into Diogenes. The writing in Diogenes is *very* structured at first, and he is doing well with it. But with CW, you really have to understand and buy into their theories and method. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siloam Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 It is a little frustrating how long it takes for them to learn paragraphs, but on the other hand I myself have times I have troubles with the concept, so I realize waiting is probably the better idea. More maturity = better understanding. I solved the issue in Aesop and Homer by having my oldest outline the models. She does a new point on the outline for each paragraphs, and when she re-writes she follows the outline to know when to break for paragraphs. Otherwise she wrote one huge never-ending paragraph. Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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