Need to switch from SM. Please help me choose something else!

[profmom]

We've used SM since the beginning, and I've always liked it. (My oldest is finishing 6B this school year.) However, I came so close to switching my middle ds at the beginning of this year (4th grade) because he was missing too many in SM last year. However, he would miss so many and then get them right when I sat with him to try to figure out what he was doing wrong. So, I thought it could just be that he was trying to do them in his head to finish faster the first time and then getting them right when writing them out with me. We were just about to go with R &S for 4th until he asked me to please let him use SM.

 

So, here we are at the end of 4th grade. There have been times when it didn't seem like he was fully understanding SM and/or missing too many again (units of measure: adding, subtracting, converting between different measurements stands out in my mind). Out of curiosity, I gave him the placement test that covers the book he is finishing right now (4A), and he missed a lot! The weird thing is that he felt great about it when he handed it to me! It looks like he made too many math errors (3 - 2/7 = 5/7 I know he knows this) and often chose the wrong operation for word problems or didn't read carefully enough. ("During the last half year, Mr. Wilson's salary was $1985 each month. He saved $4025 during that time and spent the rest. How much did he spend?" He subtracted $4025 - 1985 = $2040.)

 

It's true that he is more of a language arts & music guy. His favorite school subject is Greek, and he's quick to understand the grammar, apply it, & memorize vocabulary, declensions, etc.

 

I'm not sure which math curriculum would fit him, and I'm not sure where to start researching. I have R & S 4th grade math book and just looked through it. There's something about it that he doesn't like, but he isn't able to tell me what. I think it might work, but I wonder what else there is since he has a negative opinion of R &S math.

 

:confused: :confused: Any thoughts or advice?

[siloam]

We've used SM since the beginning, and I've always liked it. (My oldest is finishing 6B this school year.) However, I came so close to switching my middle ds at the beginning of this year (4th grade) because he was missing too many in SM last year. However, he would miss so many and then get them right when I sat with him to try to figure out what he was doing wrong. So, I thought it could just be that he was trying to do them in his head to finish faster the first time and then getting them right when writing them out with me. We were just about to go with R &S for 4th until he asked me to please let him use SM.

 

So, here we are at the end of 4th grade. There have been times when it didn't seem like he was fully understanding SM and/or missing too many again (units of measure: adding, subtracting, converting between different measurements stands out in my mind). Out of curiosity, I gave him the placement test that covers the book he is finishing right now (4A), and he missed a lot! The weird thing is that he felt great about it when he handed it to me! It looks like he made too many math errors (3 - 2/7 = 5/7 I know he knows this) and often chose the wrong operation for word problems or didn't read carefully enough. ("During the last half year, Mr. Wilson's salary was $1985 each month. He saved $4025 during that time and spent the rest. How much did he spend?" He subtracted $4025 - 1985 = $2040.)

 

It's true that he is more of a language arts & music guy. His favorite school subject is Greek, and he's quick to understand the grammar, apply it, & memorize vocabulary, declensions, etc.

 

I'm not sure which math curriculum would fit him, and I'm not sure where to start researching. I have R & S 4th grade math book and just looked through it. There's something about it that he doesn't like, but he isn't able to tell me what. I think it might work, but I wonder what else there is since he has a negative opinion of R &S math.

 

:confused: :confused: Any thoughts or advice?

 

My oldest makes the same sort of errors, and is doing two programs both RS and Singapore. I don't think it is an issue of what math program you are using, but the child needs to learn to slow down and pay more attention. That I think comes over time and with maturity.

 

My 2cents.

 

Heather

 

[Tree House Academy]

I just switched my rising 5th grader to CLE math from Singapore at the end of this year. I couldn't have made a better decision!

[Matryoshka]

Here's a slightly different idea - instead of ditching Singapore, why not supplement in the summer with Life of Fred? After 4B is the perfect place to start.

 

When my kids went through 4B, I thought things were going pretty well - not perfect but they seemed to understand the concepts. When we got to the final review, I had them take it like a test, and it was like everything we'd learned about fractions had left their heads (what? make a common denomiator before adding?). If I reminded them they could do it, but until then they looked at them like they'd never seen them before. I had a bit of a panic, but decided to put them through Life of Fred: Fractions over the summer.

 

Aaaah. They did it, and independently at that, and since then they seem to have retained all that fraction stuff, and 5th grade has been our easiest math year (from what I've heard from others it's not because SM5 is easy), and I'm fairly sure the summer of Fred has something to do with it. Fred is also full of word problems. And it's absolutely excellent for language arts kids - that completely describes one of my dds (she's also a musician) - somehow having the math be in the context of a story really helped her understand/retain it. She did so well with Fred that when we get to Algebra and up I'm thinking of having it be her main math program.

 

We've just finished 5B and they're doing LOF: Decimals and Percents this summer before starting 6A.

Edited May 23, 2009 by matroyshka

[Mama Lynx]

I'm a big fan of supplementing with another math curriculum.

 

SM is excellent, but SM doesn't have a whole lot of practice for the kid who really needs practice to cement concepts. I bet he needs more practice. Trying something like Life of Fred can't hurt :)

[MomOfOneFunOne]

I'm not sure if this is anything you would like to consider but I am pleased as punch with cybeRShala. It's $100/month INCLUDING books/shipping, class time, et c. You get the text book and workbook in the mail and use them at home. they use the IP and CWP in class or email the pages to be done. If you want to stick with singapore, it, in my opinion, is a wonderful alternative.

 

When I taught SM, we had a somewhat similar experience: more misses than I thought reasonable, wrong operations, et c. In addition, I'm just not smart enough to conquer the IP book and had my own problems with the CWP -- I'm just not a mathy person. None of that is an issue now. The teacher is just brilliant and *complete* comprehension is the standard. I just love it!

 

www.cybershala.com

 

My daughter says she loves it and she loves the teacher! She also says that when you pull up the website you'll see a kid jumping with excitement . . . she says it's true.

[Caroline4kids]

I don't know if this would help or not, but I am using Strayer-Upton's Practical Arithmetic Book 1 with my 9 (almost 10) year old. He skips lots of the easier lessons but we use the word problems and mental drills a lot. He loves it and it builds really slowly. R&S is a good choice too, but I get bogged down by the big teacher's manuals I have to lug everywhere. Strayer is self-contained and tiny AND it teaches directly to the student.

 

Everything you said sounds really familiar to me.:) My kids love music and latin/grammar but balk at math. The only thing they care about is me telling them they are done for the day.:tongue_smilie:

[LadyAberlin]

I would look at CLE or Key to curriculum.

[LunaLee]

Are you supplementing the Singapore with the IP and EP?

 

I had this very same conversation with myself about SM not more than a week ago and I was ready to hit the buy button at R&S, but ds begged me not to. For whatever reason he really likes it. I know he's not getting enough practice with some of the SM topics so I've decided, instead of ditching SM altogether I'll try using the supplemental resources that are available from Singapore in addition to daily math drills and Math Minutes (daily pages of about 10 different problems in geometry, fractions, mulitplication..that kind of thing).

 

I like the idea of a summer with Fred-I'd probably use it too if we were that far along-we're only just starting 4A.

[profmom]

My oldest makes the same sort of errors, and is doing two programs both RS and Singapore. I don't think it is an issue of what math program you are using, but the child needs to learn to slow down and pay more attention. That I think comes over time and with maturity.

 

My 2cents.

 

Heather

 

 

Thank you for posting that, Heather!! (Taking a deep breath.)

[profmom]

I just switched my rising 5th grader to CLE math from Singapore at the end of this year. I couldn't have made a better decision!

 

Rebecca (and any others), what is it about CLE that is working better for your 5th grader? I don't know anything about CLE, but I'll check into it.

[profmom]

Here's a slightly different idea - instead of ditching Singapore, why not supplement in the summer with Life of Fred? After 4B is the perfect place to start.

 

...

 

We've just finished 5B and they're doing LOF: Decimals and Percents this summer before starting 6A.

 

Thanks for the suggestion (Mama Lynx too)! What about if he's just finishing 4A? Wait to add LoF until after 4B?

 

BTW, having just gone through 6A & B with my oldest, I like your plan of using LoF Decimals and Percents beforehand!

Edited May 24, 2009 by profmom

[profmom]

Are you supplementing the Singapore with the IP and EP?

 

I had this very same conversation with myself about SM not more than a week ago and I was ready to hit the buy button at R&S, but ds begged me not to. For whatever reason he really likes it. I know he's not getting enough practice with some of the SM topics so I've decided, instead of ditching SM altogether I'll try using the supplemental resources that are available from Singapore in addition to daily math drills and Math Minutes (daily pages of about 10 different problems in geometry, fractions, mulitplication..that kind of thing).

 

I like the idea of a summer with Fred-I'd probably use it too if we were that far along-we're only just starting 4A.

 

I have EP, but we haven't been using it. I find it difficult to be consistent adding in supplements in any subject -- extra workbooks here and there seem to add more to planning than they add to education. However, I know I need to make his math (+ attention to detail, thinking through problems, etc.) a priority this coming school year.

 

I'm kind of afraid to continue with SM, though, after coming so close to changing a year ago, deciding to stick with SM, and then still having some of the same issues at the end of this year. I feel like a fresh start with something else might be beneficial.

 

Another concern is that I always feel the need to cover what SM didn't that will be on the Stanford that the dc take at the end of the school year. I wish I didn't have to -- I guess I don't, really, but I don't want their scores to be lower just because they've never seen a particular type of problem that would be easy for them with some exposure. Going with the SM Standards edition might help with this, but they say not to change to Standards when going from an "A" book to a "B." So, we'd still need to complete 4B with the U.S. edition before we could start a Standard ed. 5A.

 

Thoughts?

 

Thanks, guys, for the other suggestions too! I haven't heard of MomofOneFunOne's or Caroline's suggestions, but I'll check into them!

[LunaLee]

I have EP, but we haven't been using it. I find it difficult to be consistent adding in supplements in any subject -- extra workbooks here and there seem to add more to planning than they add to education. However, I know I need to make his math (+ attention to detail, thinking through problems, etc.) a priority this coming school year.

 

I'm kind of afraid to continue with SM, though, after coming so close to changing a year ago, deciding to stick with SM, and then still having some of the same issues at the end of this year. I feel like a fresh start with something else might be beneficial.

 

Another concern is that I always feel the need to cover what SM didn't that will be on the Stanford that the dc take at the end of the school year. I wish I didn't have to -- I guess I don't, really, but I don't want their scores to be lower just because they've never seen a particular type of problem that would be easy for them with some exposure. Going with the SM Standards edition might help with this, but they say not to change to Standards when going from an "A" book to a "B." So, we'd still need to complete 4B with the U.S. edition before we could start a Standard ed. 5A.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

Well, I can totally understand if you have had this feeling before and now after another year are feeling the same way. Usually your gut instinct is right. If you are going to switch, I can tell you that I was going to switch to R&S. I just liked the lay out better and I love the English so that's where we were headed. Like I said, I decided to stay because ds really liked the program and I figured I'd try the other componants to the program, giving it a fair shot, before switching.

 

We made the switch from U.S. to Standards with 3B-So I finished up US 3A and then used the Standards 3B. I switched because after looking through both 3B's I found that some topics were covered in the Standards 3B edition that ds would need in the Standards 4A edition.

 

Also with the testing...that's a hard one. I had my ds take two tests this year-one is the CA State required STAR test, which I won't have the results back for until August. But I know there was stuff on there that he didn't know and that's okay because I know he is working a grade behind in Singapore. I also had him take another test where I get the results right away and that one showed he wasn't as behind as I thought he was.That made me feel better because he was average with other 4th graders who took the test. So what I'm saying is that you'll have to make peace with yourself and that testing. I'm not sure that switching to another curriculum will fix that-I guess it depends on your state's standards. I know that when I considered switching to R&S 5 for next year, it didn't cover all the things for the CA standards, but again I was okay with that because I think that CA's standards for math are ridiculous. Algebra in the 8th grade, spare me...

 

:grouphug: to you because I hate having to deliberate over curriculum. I'm doing the same with Science right now and it's giving me a headache.:001_smile:

[Matryoshka]

IAnother concern is that I always feel the need to cover what SM didn't that will be on the Stanford that the dc take at the end of the school year. I wish I didn't have to -- I guess I don't, really, but I don't want their scores to be lower just because they've never seen a particular type of problem that would be easy for them with some exposure.

 

Do you have to submit the test scores to the state? I had my kids take the Stanford this year for the first time, and I have to admit not worrying a bit about what was on the test (as in, I have no idea and didn't even bother trying to find out). But I also don't have to submit the scores, I was thinking of it more as familiarizing them with standardized tests.

 

I've been supplementing all along with things like Math Detective, Math Mosaics and Venn Perplexors that don't take much time or effort on my part and do cover some of the things US math programs cover that Singapore doesn't.

 

What is on the Stanford that isn't in Singapore? Maybe I should pay more attention... :tongue_smilie:

 

Going with the SM Standards edition might help with this, but they say not to change to Standards when going from an "A" book to a "B." So, we'd still need to complete 4B with the U.S. edition before we could start a Standard ed. 5A.

 

Going to Standards probably would put your fears at ease about the scope/sequence vs. the US. I hear the HIGs for that version are also great. Sorry I don't know about switching between A/B. My youngest is going into 4a next year, and I admit to being too cheap to switch now - I already have all the textbooks for the other version. :tongue_smilie: