High school lit/history progression: Modern in 12th seems too late

[camibami]

If we follow the WTM logic recs, then we don't get to modern lit/history until 12th grade, which seems too late for SATs and all that jazz. But doing Ancients in 8th seems pretty difficult- in truth most of the ancients readings for Logic stage are pushing it for a 9th grader, IMO.

 

How do you work around this, get all 4 years in, and still get the modern classics most ps high schools read in time for SATs in 11th?

 

I have soem years to plan this, but I just got my new WTM and read the Logic section for the first time and wondered about this.

[Lori D.]

Since we spent 6 years doing our first "cycle" of history chronologically, I feel we have a solid foundation for doing high school history in any order we want. I'm giving our boys input into their schedules where possible, so last year we did the ancient world for history and did both ancient classic works ("The Great Books" elective credit) and LLftLotR (for the lit. portion of their English credit). This year they asked to do 20th Century World for history and we're doing a bit of a hodge-podge for their "Great Books" elective credit (some modern works, plus Macbeth and Beowulf, plus part of Windows to the World). For the lit. portion of his English credit, older DS is doing some classic sci-fi works (almost all 20th century lit. classics) plus Frankenstein and Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde, while younger DS is doing LL8 (several 20th century lit. classics, plus 3 short story units and 3 poetry units).

 

Next year we'll hit US history and do American Lit (plus a little Shakespeare and probably something else that I'll suddenly decide is a must -- LOL!), and the following year (senior year for older DS) we'll finish with Medieval World (Western AND Eastern civilizations) with focus on British Lit. plus a few world lit. works.

 

 

Another option -- don't feel you have to tie your history and literature together. Most high school classrooms don't. You've probably already laid down a great foundation of history, and so your students will be able to easily remember and make connections with what you've done history-wise from the past (at least, that's what we're finding to be true). And even if high school is your students' first exposure to history, it's easy enough to discuss the connections backwards and forwards from wherever you start. Just write up a list of the lit. you want to be sure to cover and when, and start doing it; you can always preface each work with a 5-minute quickie of historical context and social setting. Or, if you want the literature to match up with the history, then make a list of what lit. you want to do and when, and then select whatever period of history most fits your lit. list.

 

 

I'll bet other ladies on this Board will suggest other ideas and options for you. The further we go in homeschooling, the more I'm realizing, "it's all good"! Less and less does it seem to me as though there is "one right way" to do it. Really, whatever you do one-on-one with your students will be far more in-depth than what they would ever get in a classroom setting. :) BEST of luck, whatever you decide! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited May 22, 2009 by Lori D.
added info for clarity

[Chris in VA]

Do you mean the SATII's? Or just the plain ol' SAT?

 

You don't need any history or lit to take the Plain Ol' SAT's. It's just writing, reading and 'rithmatic (well, not quite, but there's no history or lit on it).

 

Is that of any help?

[Laurie4b]

Literature from premodern times is much more vigorous than modern, so will actually prepare a student better in terms of doing well on the selections in the SAT reading section. If you're worried about it, just do a couple of modern works. It will be fine. And your student will have a chance to do SAT's in the fall (Oct, Nov, Dec) of the senior year as well. Don't sweat it.

[MomsintheGarden]

We followed the WTM sequence "as is" with my ds, now just finished with his freshman year of college. It worked just fine - he scored very well on the SAT and did well at school. The SAT does not test knowledge of history or literature, although quoting Plato (WTM rhetoric stage year 1, 9th grade), Chaucer (WTM rhetoric year 2, 10th grade), or Hawthorne (WTM rhetoric year 3, 11th grade) on the essay portion would be just as impressive as quips from any modern author.

 

We really enjoyed using the WTM history sequence, and I have absolutely no qualms about repeating it with my younger children.

 

That said, when the time comes for taking the PSAT, SAT, and/or the ACT, please consider getting your student a good prep book and having them study it for a couple of months before the test. The WTM is wonderful preparation for thinking, but it is also a good idea to get your student used to the format of these tests.

 

HTH,

GardenMom

[camibami]

I was thinking about the SAT subject area tests- are those the SAT II's? And AP tests.

 

We're starting the cycle over again middle next year (oldest DD's 6th grade year) and I think we'll hit modern era in 9thish. So my plan to have those first will work, then ancients 10th, medieval 11th, and another pushed together year in 12th of renn-to modern. Ancients in 10th is doable, I think. As doable as its gonna get, LOL.

 

I realize I am looking at those years with a kid who is only 10 now, and it seems SO overwhelming and like she'll never be ready for that, but of course, she'll be different then. I hope. She will, right??? 'Cause right now, lordy, she's a hot mess of tween hormones and scatterbrained-ness!

 

Thanks all, I just started hanging around here, trying to get a handle on the "future". Its skeery.:willy_nilly:

[Nan in Mass]

I really liked the way the order fit into my son's readiness to do difficult subject matter. We did not, however, do any SAT2s or APs. Instead, we did community college classes to demonstrate to universities that he could do college level work, as well as to make a bridge between home and college, and home-learning and classroom-learning. The people who take a history AP usually spend a year intensively studying for it, covering all of the target history in that single year. I don't remember hearing about anyone who took a history AP just using TWTM history, without studying specifically to take the AP

 

I was very happy that moderns didn't come until 12th grade. My son definately wasn't emotionally ready for them before that. My son could identify with the Odyssey and Aeneid and Beowulf. The Republic addressed issues that he struggled with as he became an adult. He liked the political history of Plutarch. Yes, the works were technically a little harder to read than The Great Gatsby, but TGG would have been wasted on him at that age. He would have hated it and (I'm sure) sworn never to read any classics again. Instead, he enjoyed his great books. Modern literature is more likely to get read for "fun" as an adult, also. The same with history - there is no way he could have dealt with reading about the holocaust when he was in 9th grade. Even in 12th, he only read the description in his history textbook. It also is easier to study history if you study it at a distance first, because you can see it as a whole. For example, the Roman empire began and ended (more or less) and now we have a fairly good idea of the results. We don't know the results of the events of modern history yet. It is partial. It is easier to look at modern history if you have ancient history to compare it to. It also is easier to see why things have happened if you go in chronological order. Another thing I like about history/literature TWTM way is that the literature is the primary sources for the history.

 

That said, we have done poems, short modern works, and Shakespeare plays interspersed with our great books, just for a break and a change. The Shakespeare has been fun. Doing a few every year has given us a chance to do more Shakespeare than if we had done it only when it arrived chronologically. (I kept track of what my oldest read and then divided it into classes for his transcript at the end, not worrying about which year the material was read.) We did many great books with a logic stage child and a rhetoric stage child together. I just picked the books carefully. The younger one is brightish and has done TWTM since first grade, so he was well prepared, often better prepared than his older brother and me, to do the greats. He wanted to join us, so I let him. We stretched the first three years of great books over all of high school and everyone did summer reading. The few modern books that my older one read were done during the summer by himself. He is about to turn 19 now and suddenly I can see that if he read the moderns now, he would be able to appreciate them. I'm glad I didn't force him to read them earlier. Instead, for his 4th year of literature, he read science fiction. I happen to think scifi is an important part of a person's education because it predicts the future. LOL - I guess you could say it is the 5th year of the 4 year history rotation. He read it summers throughout high school.

 

Hopefully, you will get some more answers. If you don't, try posting with the title "How do you combine AP history with TWTM 4 year cycle?"

 

-Nan