Got our year-end tests back...can someone recomend a math program??

[funschooler5]

Here's my situation: I have a 5th grader and a 3rd grader who both hate math. Neither one was able to finish their math tests at their year-end testing. I knew going into the tests that we were behind in some concepts, and shaky in others. They both scored right on average for the "concepts & applications" portion of the test, and below average on computation (the computation was the part they didn't finish). My 5th grader's combined math grade equivalent was 5th (she's actually 5th grade, 9th month). My 3rd grader's math grade equivalent was 2nd grade, 8th month (he's actually 3rd grade, 9th month).

 

I do admit, I've never liked or been good at math, but I've tried to hide that from my kids. We use "fun" math books in addition to their curriculum: (The "I Love Math" series, "The I Hate Mathematics Book", Quick Pix math games, Life of Fred, etc.) We started out with Singapore Math, which I love, and I think gave them a solid foundation (and actually helped me with some things I didn't understand as a kid). As they got older they began to hate it, which is my fault, I'm sure. I understand the concepts, I just don't know how to teach some of them. Is there a program out there that can help me (and them)? Something that can help me explain concepts, and might be interesting to them? I know I can't make them like math, but it'd be nice to find a program they won't groan about.

 

(Obligatory face-saving note so you won't think I'm completely inept: They both did extremely well on the Reading and Language portion of their tests.)

[Ibbygirl]

Here's my situation: I have a 5th grader and a 3rd grader who both hate math. Neither one was able to finish their math tests at their year-end testing. I knew going into the tests that we were behind in some concepts, and shaky in others. They both scored right on average for the "concepts & applications" portion of the test, and below average on computation (the computation was the part they didn't finish). My 5th grader's combined math grade equivalent was 5th (she's actually 5th grade, 9th month). My 3rd grader's math grade equivalent was 2nd grade, 8th month (he's actually 3rd grade, 9th month).

 

I do admit, I've never liked or been good at math, but I've tried to hide that from my kids. We use "fun" math books in addition to their curriculum: (The "I Love Math" series, "The I Hate Mathematics Book", Quick Pix math games, Life of Fred, etc.) We started out with Singapore Math, which I love, and I think gave them a solid foundation (and actually helped me with some things I didn't understand as a kid). As they got older they began to hate it, which is my fault, I'm sure. I understand the concepts, I just don't know how to teach some of them. Is there a program out there that can help me (and them)? Something that can help me explain concepts, and might be interesting to them? I know I can't make them like math, but it'd be nice to find a program they won't groan about.

 

(Obligatory face-saving note so you won't think I'm completely inept: They both did extremely well on the Reading and Language portion of their tests.)

 

 

I'm so sorry to hear that your dc are struggling. I wish I had good answers for you. I am always struggling with math as well so I'll be interested in seeing what replies you get here. :) I hope that your math next year will be much better. I'm glad they scored so well with reading and language. :) My daughter is the same. She always scores low in math but is in like the 99% percentile for reading. :)

[Amber in AUS]

Sorry, am i missing something? I see you mention the 'fun' stuff and that you used to use Singapore but what are you using as your spine program now?

[funschooler5]

Sorry, I forgot to add that! This year both of them started out with Singapore, and then after constant complaining (mostly from my DD, which spread to my DS) we switched to a combination of Evan-Moor Skill Sharpeners Math and Key to books (Decimals, Fractions, & Geometry) for my 5th grader, and Skill Sharpeners and Life of Fred Fractions for my 3rd grader. I know the Skill Sharpeners aren't enough of a program by themselves, but I thought by supplementing with games, it'd be alright for awhile. They were starting to dread math so much, I told them we'd try letting them pick out their own math books and see what happens (they picked the Skill Sharpeners). They do like them more than anything else we've tried but their not meant to be used as a full math curriculum. I just wanted to avoid them hating math as much as they do. I do believe it has more to do with me and my ability to teach them, so I'd love to hear about curriculums that are easy for the instructor to follow! Thanks :)

[Ibbygirl]

Sorry, I forgot to add that! This year both of them started out with Singapore, and then after constant complaining (mostly from my DD, which spread to my DS) we switched to a combination of Evan-Moor Skill Sharpeners Math and Key to books (Decimals, Fractions, & Geometry) for my 5th grader, and Skill Sharpeners and Life of Fred Fractions for my 3rd grader. I know the Skill Sharpeners aren't enough of a program by themselves, but I thought by supplementing with games, it'd be alright for awhile. They were starting to dread math so much, I told them we'd try letting them pick out their own math books and see what happens (they picked the Skill Sharpeners). They do like them more than anything else we've tried but their not meant to be used as a full math curriculum. I just wanted to avoid them hating math as much as they do. I do believe it has more to do with me and my ability to teach them, so I'd love to hear about curriculums that are easy for the instructor to follow! Thanks :)

 

The one thing I really liked about Saxon was that the teacher's manual was so scripted, but my dd just hated it so much that no matter of script was going to help that. :( Have you ever considered a book for yourself to help you develop those concepts??? I have heard some of the other forum members here talk about this book that it helped them teach their children better. http://www.singaporemath.com/Elementary_Mathematics_for_Teachers_p/emft.htm

[Amber in AUS]

Springing to mind straight off, have you looked at BJU or Abeka for math? They have colourful workbooks and are very solid programs, but not quite as 'outside the box' as Singapore (from what i understand).

 

There is also MUS, where the DVD would teach most of the concepts and you might learn something too and overcome that fear of math.

 

Also Right Start and Saxon spring to mind because they are scripted programs. Right Start is more fun so i hear.

 

I am just throwing some ideas out there. I don't know anything of the books you have been using, sorry.

[debbielong]

I know it can occasionally get bad reviews here, but lots of folks also love it. My daughter just finished TT 5 and I think TT did a great job of teaching her fractions and decimals. She too had been "raised" on Singapore and hated it.

 

TT is expensive, but it is a complete DVD program. The student listens to the lecture and completes the problems, all on the DVD. The workbook has the lecture, too. So, if the student has any questions, the parent can find the exact words used by the instructor to help explain the concept.

 

Another advantage for you might be that the TT levels actually more closely correspond to the standards of the previous year. In other words, your younger child might be able to do TT4 and your older child might be able to do TT6.

 

Here is the website, which also has placement tests:

 

http://www.teachingtextbooks.com/

[Elizabeth Conley]

We had been using Saxon, but we hated it and were beginning to hate Math as well. We now use MUS. The kids usually get done in less than an hour. The manipulatives and Teacher's Manual are helpful. It's a calm, orderly, methodical approach to mastery learning. It's confidence building as well as skill building.

[Pongo]

Springing to mind straight off, have you looked at BJU or Abeka for math? They have colourful workbooks and are very solid programs, but not quite as 'outside the box' as Singapore (from what i understand).

 

 

 

What leveled books were they in for Sinagpore?

 

I use three different types of combinations because of the learning styles of my kids but a fun basal program we like is BJU. When you start veering off from using a traditional program sequence your children will test all over the place because different concepts are taught sometimes at different times.

 

Having started my homeschooling journey, I was most terrified about math, now I am most comfortable with it. My best advice is find a program and stick to it, move quickly when that light-bulb moment happens and slow down and spend time on the particular concept when they find it hard. If my children complain it's because they find the subject matter challenging but that's not enough for me to switch, what knowledge and authority do they have about math programs:D

 

I hope you find something that works:)

[mamaof2andtwins]

I don't know if you need a secular curriculum or not, but we use CLE (Christian Light Education) math, and it is very easy to teach. Prior to that we used Rod and Staff which is also very thorough, but just a different type of program.

 

Jennie

[Elm in NJ]

I was also going to suggest CLE math. My kids love it after hating Singapore. They are also doing MEP math which is tolerated.

[HollyDay]

Are you a member of HSLDA? They have a new service for elementary ages, run by a very nice lady named Vickyi Bently. If you are a member, call her with your test scores and concerns. She can recommend a curriculum that will address the situation. She has been very helpful to me.

[Tree House Academy]

CLE has been perfect for both my kids. They drill and learn facts daily in short spurts and the lessons are easy and short. I can't recommend it enough!

[Rhonda in TX]

I like CLE, but I found it very easy to just let them do their own thing, rather than me actually teaching them. This has not worked well for them. I am good at math and like it, but I find it difficult to explain concepts at my kids' level. So, we're switching to BJU. I love their teacher manuals and am looking forward to using it next year.

[amtmcm]

My math hating DD did A Beka from K-5 and was ready for pre-algebra for 6th. A Beka is highly repetitive and I know some people find that annoying, but it gets the job done. I DO NOT recommend A Beka past elementary grades as I do not care for the way the upper grade texts are written. A Beka is very strong on math facts and drill and students learn their addition, subtraction, multiplication, division and measuring down cold. My DD took pre-algebra with a one day a week school this year. She went for her final exam yesterday and forgot her calculator but she still was the 2nd student to finish because she knows her math facts and can do math in her head. I give the credit to A Beka for this.

 

I have looked at CLE's scope and sequence and I really like the subjects it covers. It does a better job than A Beka for covering geometry and applying math to real life in elementary grades. I don't know if it's as strong in the math facts and drills.

 

Singapore is a mastery program, and it sounds like your kids need a spiral program to keep repeating the concepts so they can memorize them and make the connections between concepts. I would think it would be much easier for you to have a methodical, open & go program instead of juggling so many different ones. For me, I don't like science and if we hadn't used Rainbow this year (which is totally open & go) I don't think it would have gotten done. CLE and A Beka are both solid, open & go programs. With CLE your children can work independently.

 

Your children will probably complain about whatever math program you choose since they don't like math, so pick something you can believe in and then you can be confident when you tell them this is the best and you're not changing again. Also, putting my math hating DD with another teacher this year was the best thing for her. It really built up her confidence and we're going to try doing math at home next year.

 

Best Wishes,

[moosemomma]

If you are eclectic in math and need help with your teaching of math have you looked at Maximum Math by Kathryn Stout. It gives objectives and ideas to teach these objectives.

 

For practicing concepts I love http://themathworksheetsite.com/ . For $25 a year, you can make your own worksheets and answer sheets to teach and reinforce concepts. You can be very detailed with computation skills too. I just ran off 5 worksheets for my 8yo that focus on his 4, 5, and 6 multiplication facts. It is my favorite math site and I have shown it to friends who are teachers and they LOVE it.

 

Jill

[funschooler5]

Thanks so much for your help! I'm checking out all of the programs everyone has recommended so far. I think we would prefer a secular program....Teaching Textbooks seems really great. My kids are visual learners and enjoy using the computer, so I think this might work for us. I'm going to do some more research see. Rightstart is another program I was looking at before...my kids need a lot of visuals.

 

Thanks again!

[amtmcm]

Teaching Textbooks sounds like it may be a good fit for your family. That's what we'll be using for Algebra concurrently with Life of Fred.

 

You can order from Christianbook.com and they have 10% off coupon code that someone on the forum posted - it's 289107tr - sorry I don't know when it expires.

 

Teaching Textbooks has placement tests on their website: http://www.teachingtextbooks.com/v/vspfiles/tt/Placement.htm

 

I wish you all the best in finding a program you like and you feel confident using. I've always read that jumping around in math can leave gaps. I like a lot of variety, so that's a hard one for me - but I try to resist in math.

 

Best Wishes,

[mrsrevmeg]

I know a lot of people on here do not seem to like it but Math U See is GREAT for a parent who hates/is not good at/otherwise does not enjoy math. There are DVDs that you can watch alone and teach to the child, or watch along with the child. The actual teaching portion can vary from 5 minutes on something easy to me spending 20-30 minutes helping out on a not so easy lesson. One complaint I hear from people is that it stays "too long" on one subject. I have not found that to be true. We are going to start Pre-Algebra, so we do not have experience in the high maths. What I have seen of it we love. Our kids are ahead of the non-homeschool kids around here and do very well on testing.

HTH

[sagira]

I know your children are somewhat older, but I do like MCP Math (which runs K-6). I like the Teachers Manual immensely.

[teacalm]

I went through the horrible math situation with my ds several years back. What helped was when I requested ALEKs through our charter and we did that daily, about 2 to 3 topics a day, as a supplement to our math curriculum (Horizons and Singapore). About 2 months into using ALEKS, his math score went up dramatically from the time he took the NWEA fall assessment to the spring assessment. I love ALEKS but I wouldn't use it by itself. I don't know exactly why ALEKS was successful with ds but it maybe because I was desperate and felt inadequate as his sole math teacher that I was determined not to believe that he can't overcome this math struggle. It was a lot of tears for both of us but in the end ds thanked me for standing by him and not giving up on him.

 

Hang in there and don't give up.

[momtolgd]

I'd have to agree and recommend CLE math...my oldest went from frustration and tears with Horizons to loving CLE. The way the drill system is set up is wonderful for us! We are new to it, but are loving it. :001_smile:

[PollyOR]

I believe this will help...drill the math facts. Even if they know how to work a problem, not knowing their math facts will slow them down. All of my older girls finally learned their facts well around 10-11 years old. I didn't do speed drills, but I did have them practice their math facts every day.

[Paisley Hedgehog]

nm

[Stacia]

I'll second the earlier recommendation for Math U See!

[Rosie_0801]

There are lots of Maths Phobic Mammas using Math on the Level, and claiming to be doing brilliantly once they got over the initial panic attack from the first read through the books. Sign onto their yahoo group and read through the archives: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/mathonthelevel/

 

Rosie

[Melissa in CA]

Wow, it's hard to choose with so many "favorites" being thrown at ya isn't it? :D

 

I'm not going to throw another one your way, though I do have my favorite. Instead I am going to reiterate what has already been voiced: Pick a basic [tried and true] math program and stick with it! I specify tried and true because there are some curriculum that have been around for many years for a reason, and there are some on the market that are fairly new and have not yet stood the test of time. Not saying they cannot be excellent, but I like the tried and true for my main basal math...any new stuff for supplemental. For example, and I don't mean to ruffle any feathers, but from my understanding CLE's math is rather new. I think it looks great for independent learning, and I had considered it for our math this year as a 7th grade filler, but I do worry about the lack of instruction (the whys behind the math) and I don't know that it is something I would want to use as my main math curriculum. Again, because it is too new and I don't quite trust it yet, not because I know it to be inferior in any way.

 

Also, I think only true math lovers will not complain in some form or other about math. My son does not complain, but he'd rather do anything than math. When I give him a day off math (maybe 2x a YEAR!) he acts like I have taken the load of a thousand bricks from his shoulders. It's ridiculous considering math only takes about 30-45 minutes a day. :glare:

 

All that to say...I hope you find what works for you and yours. ;)

[EKS]

:iagree:

[Julie in MN]

I believe this will help...drill the math facts. Even if they know how to work a problem, not knowing their math facts will slow them down. All of my older girls finally learned their facts well around 10-11 years old. I didn't do speed drills, but I did have them practice their math facts every day.

 

:iagree:

 

You DO NOT need a new math program -- you need a drill program! No math program can get your kids to do computation faster. If you want fast computation, you need drill. If you don't like drill, then you have to accept slower computation. I don't see any other choices.

[Susan in TX]

Developmental Mathematics has worked great for us. It is a workbook based program that is self-paced and self-teaching. It requires no instruction from the teacher, although I have had to help every now and then. I have successfully graduated 3 students from this program to Saxon Algebra 1/2 and one into public school Pre-Algebra. All it takes is about 20 minutes a day. I just love this math program!

 

Not all homeschool catalogs carry it. I order mine online from gpasmartstore.com.

 

Susan in TX

[funschooler5]

Thanks for the continued suggestions....keep them coming! :lol:

 

A few of you mentioned doing math drills...this makes a lot of sense. They do know their multiplication facts, but on some they have to think about it, and I know they need to be able to recall them instantly. Both of them have trouble remembering addition facts, so we definitely need drills for both. Does anyone have any favorite programs for math drills? Or do you just print off worksheets from the internet? We've tried the latter, gradually adding new problems as we go, but the facts just don't seem to stick.

 

Though just drilling and staying with Singapore might work, I'm wondering if I still need to get a program with an easier to follow teacher's guide. I've been researching different math curriculums on and off all day, and I keep leaning toward Teaching Textbooks. I realize it's easier than other curriculums, but I wonder if they might need to build some confidence in math? And the samples I've seen online seem to go through the steps very clearly.

[funschooler5]

My two students have always tested about average on the Concepts portion of the IOWA and bombed the Computation section. Every. Single. Year. So, you are in good company! :lol: As we test every spring, I do see year-over-year progress, so that does give me some hope that at least a portion of what we cover actually does make it into their heads.

 

Thanks for sharing your experience...it makes me feel better to know I'm not alone!

 

Whether the kids (or MOM) likes it or not, Math is one of those necessary subjects where you just gotta do it. Pick a program with a solid reputation (BJU, CLE, Horizons, Saxon) and stick with it. The more you switch around curriculum, the more likely it is that something will be missed or skipped over. And, in all honesty, letting my children pick their favorite workbook would not be something that would figure greatly into my decision, kwim? ;) If it were up to them, Math would go the way of the Edsel.

 

Yeah, in hindsight, not my best idea. I think I did it for me as much as I did it for them. I needed time to re-group and figure out what to do. I think I have more math-phobia than the both of them put together!

[Lovedtodeath]

Abeka Arithmetic saved my homeschool! Before...

 

When we did Horizons it was all worksheet. The TM...

 

Abeka is working very very well for math facts, and we had tried three other programs for that. You don't need to drill the math facts... at least you don't need to know how to do it. Abeka has everything spelled out for the teacher. Every step. I love it! DD likes the speed drills and they are working!!! She hated flashcards and oral drill.:)

[Carol in Cal.]

That's what I did. We use Quartermile Math for drill. I require 15-30 minutes per day, depending on how things are going. I think of it as a separate subject. Math is math, and QMM is drill.