How to coordinate Geometry and Rhetoric/Logic in the high school years?

[Laura K (NC)]

My 14yo will take geometry next year (10th grade). He has had informal logic, but no formal logic. I wonder if he should take formal logic and geometry at the same time or save formal logic for his junior or senior year.

 

Could one of the resident math experts give their opinion on whether it would be confusing or complementary to take them both at the same time? I took a logic class many years ago in college and suddenly my high school geometry made sense to me (years after that epiphany would have helped my grade, unfortunately). I don't know if that would be the case if they were taken concurrently.

 

What I'm leaning toward is doing Classical Rhetoric with Aristotle (the program) for a group of high schoolers next year instead of logic. OTOH, maturity-wise, I think he could handle logic better than rhetoric.

 

Oh, and I'm leaning heavily toward using the Jacobs 2nd ed. Geometry, if that makes any difference.

 

Any help would be appreciated.

[Tina in Ouray]

Laura,

 

I would encourage you to teach formal logic next year alongside geometry. They will complement (or, maybe I should say "supplement") each other; both formal logic and geometry teach deductive reasoning. Besides, you'll get a lot more mileage out of teaching classical rhetoric after formal logic even though formal logic isn't a prerequisite for "Classical Rhetoric with Aristotle."

 

Tina in Ouray, CO

[Jan P.]

Laura,

 

I taught Cothran's Traditional Logic 1 last fall semester, and we had students there ranging from 8th grade to seniors. I agree with Tina that taking Logic concurrently with geometry will be a great complement. I don't think you would go wrong there at all. I typically have my kids do logic before geometry, but it doesn't hurt to do it at the same time either.

 

Blessings,

[Michelle in MO]

but my oldest is in 10th grade doing geometry now; fortunately, it does have a lot of proofs, and really, the proofs are just logic in action. So, Tina has made an excellent point here.

 

I often felt, when my girls were little, like--"What am I trying to do here?" I felt like I was teaching a mish-mash of subjects, instead of something that sort of "tied together" into a more wholistic understanding. Perhaps that's because I was approaching things wrong! Nevertheless, as they've grown older, I'm beginning to see more and more the overlapping of subjects: logic & geometry, logic and writing (i.e., students learning to write theses and defend their topic), proofs in algebra, writing lab reports in science with hypotheses supported by experimentation and conclusion. It's all starting to make sense!

[Tina in Ouray]

Michelle,

 

 

There are lots of nifty connections, and it is fun to discover them.

 

 

Formal logic teaches the rules of deductive reasoning. Once you've mastered the basic syllogism, you'll see that this form can be used with content from other subjects. Here's a link that will give you a few examples from arithmetic, geometry, logic (proving its own rules), physics, mathematical physics, biology, social science, and theology.

 

 

http://www.domcentral.org/study/ashley/arts/arts407.htm

 

 

When it comes to formal logic and classical rhetoric, the two are really inseparable and the connections complex. Sister Miriam Joseph documents these connections in “Shakespeare's Use of the Arts of Language.” Who'd have thought that even figures of speech could be analyzed in relation to their grammatical and logical forms!

 

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=r1LHIgg5ox0C&pg=PA22&lpg=PA22&dq=%22topics+of+invention%22+logic&source=web&ots=_UVEdySSjT&sig=TJJNNJ-rdDv7OBJLy-zOVaiZlrc&hl=en

 

 

Tina in Ouray, CO