Slowing down -- should we go back to grade level?

[FlockOfSillies]

You know, years ago when I first started homeschooling, I thought I'd never find myself in this position. My oldest was a bright, precocious, early reader who was ready for school at age 4. So we called it K. I thought this was fabulous, since it was what my parents had done with me when they put me in school. I've got the guinea pig oldest child, yup, you betcha. Do the most schoolish things with them because it's what you know.

 

So now I'm posting stuff like this and wondering what I should do about next year. Anyone BTDT? This dc has hit the pert stage like a bug on your windshield, and this year has been so crummy for so many reasons (well, mostly one... the Toddler Who Escapes Death Only Through Sheer Cuteness) that sometimes I just want a do-over.

 

I'll be doing our annual standardized testing in June, and I'm pretty sure The Goose will be testing below 5th grade level in math at the very least. Language arts is her strength, and we're still in FLL4. (Yeah, it just came out late last fall, but still we're having to double up on lessons when we actually get around to them.)

 

People tell me it's OK, since she's 9yo, but I have developed this weird compulsion about making sure she's at least at what I'm calling "5th grade" in all her subjects. I've heard all the usual stuff about teaching to her level, and it's OK if she's not at the same grade level for everything, but none of that really makes me feel any better. I keep thinking that if I hadn't bumped her up at the beginning, it wouldn't bother me as much. Does that make sense?

 

I think I know what the problem is, bottom line. I keep comparing her to what I vaguely remember I was doing at her age. I had TONS of homework during my 5th grade year. I was still expected to keep up, and I did. I got excellent grades. And now, I worry that I've failed her, that I haven't done the one thing that got me homeschooling in the first place -- giving her and all my dc an education superior to that which they could reasonably receive in an institutional setting. Can I call what we're doing "5th grade" for even an average student? I just don't know, and I'm not sure an annual standardized test is going to be enough over the years to tell me. I want some sort of benchmark for me to look at from time to time throughout the year and see how we're doing.

 

I never realized how much the game would change when upper elementary/middle school arrived. The stakes seem so much higher, and my efforts seem completely inadequate. :crying:

[Matryoshka]

People tell me it's OK, since she's 9yo, but I have developed this weird compulsion about making sure she's at least at what I'm calling "5th grade" in all her subjects. I've heard all the usual stuff about teaching to her level, and it's OK if she's not at the same grade level for everything, but none of that really makes me feel any better. I keep thinking that if I hadn't bumped her up at the beginning, it wouldn't bother me as much. Does that make sense?

 

Not sure what advice to give, but I think I'm in the boat with you. When I first had to report for my dd, the year she turned 6, she would've been in K by ps standards (missed the cut-off by 3 months), but she'd already completed Singapore 1a and was starting on 1b. She'd been reading since 4. I thought I was really safe calling her 1st grade - she was about halfway to second.

 

Well, she's 8 now, I'm calling her 3rd, but she'd've been in 2nd in ps. She's doing fine in math, just finished Sing. 3b no problems. But in LA she plateaued in reading somewhere - okay, she's still probably reading at a 3rd grade level or better (just read Harry Potter and Edward Tulane), but she's not an avid reader - she can read, but she's no bookworm, at least not yet (I still hold out hope). Her spelling's rather bad, her penmanship's sloppy, and her writing is probably more appropriate to her age-grade than 3rd. I guess I feel like she's lost that "cushion", and I worry she'll start being behind (in some subjects) for the grade I've been calling her.

 

Like you, I was a year young for my grade and never slipped behind - always took advanced classes and made good grades. I guess I was projecting she'd be like me (parenting pitfall). What you say is pretty much exactly how I feel, just substitute "3rd" for "5th". I've been wondering all year if I should even fess up to the town that I'd like to pop her back to her age-appropriate grade, but then I worry they'll feel I've screwed it up. I mean, it does sound better to say my 2nd grader is working ahead a grade in math than to say my 3rd grader is a bit behind in writing, hm? I've definitely been second-guessing my decision this year.

 

Well, I also tell myself it really doesn't matter unless I put her in school, which I have no plans to do - if it ever happened it wouldn't be till high school. Guess that'll be a bridge I cross when I get there...

[FlockOfSillies]

Well, I also tell myself it really doesn't matter unless I put her in school, which I have no plans to do - if it ever happened it wouldn't be till high school. Guess that'll be a bridge I cross when I get there...

 

And see, I'm the type that's already thinking, "If I hold her back, I'd better do it now, rather than in or near high school. Correct the problem sooner rather than later, and avoid more of the social issues related to it as well."

 

Today my dd asked me about possibly going to a b&m school in high school. I said maybe, but that I was definitely interested in seeing her try some cc classes in high school. I guess I'd like to see how well she'd do in a real class, in terms of performance, without actually putting her in school.

[Amber in AUS]

I guess here is where you need to stop being hung up on 'grade' and start looking at age. My DD is 4 and i have a buffer of 2 years before i have to register her here. She is bright but i have already decided that i will not be calling her a grade. She is 4, end of story. The fact that she reads and comprehends at a 5th grade level, no prob, the fact that she is flying through 1st grade math, no prob. She is still a 4yo, not a pre-K, K or 1st grader.

 

Maybe you should just look at your DC as an 9yo and if you feel she needs to pull her socks up in some areas work on that. Does it really matter which level book she is in? Work through it at her speed, fast or slow, that is the beauty of HSing. If she needs extra work in math, then work harder at it for longer, change things up, maybe she just isn't mathy???

 

Just my 0.02c.

[Colleen in SEVA]

First off... ((HUGS))... we ALL have those moments, at least I do! :grouphug:

 

Second, of course only you know what decision is best for your child, but I will say that homeschool fifth grade is not the same as school fifth grade. Like you, I have been thinking of what I was doing in X grade, and though Blue is doing that and more in some areas, he isn't doing it on his own, he doesn't have the level of homework I had, he isn't doing the amount of writing and testing I was doing. I do not file his age grade (yes this was a well-researched decision *grin*), and I was having doubts about whether to continue that for this coming fall. I felt like he wasn't getting the workload of someone in X grade -- based on what I expected when I taught that grade.

 

And then I re-read WTM and went to the WTM conference.

 

Of course he isn't testing as much or writing as much as I was -- his teacher KNOWS that he read the book, he doesn't have to prove it with book reports. :) Of course he doesn't have as much homework, his teacher isn't having to move at the pace of the herd, making sure EVERYONE gets as much practice as possible. Of course he isn't taking lots of essay tests -- we do narrations, etc instead.

 

I felt so much better about what we are doing and plan to continue!

 

Now, of course I am going to be sure he learns to do things that are expected for X grade, but that is HOMESCHOOL X grade, not SCHOOL X grade.

 

So -- my advice (not sure if you were asking for advice or just wanted an ear, but you get advice free ;) ) is to re-visit your goals you have for that particular child, re-visit your long term plan, re-visit WTM, and decide what feels right.

 

If you do decide to file her 5th grade again, I like the way KPzzz (I miss her!) handled this with her DD. She included a note in her filing to the extent of "I am filing 5th grade again this year because my daughter now identifies herself more with her 5th grade age peers." Make it a socialization issue and they won't question it. ha ha!

Edited May 14, 2009 by Colleen in SEVA

[JennW in SoCal]

Out of curiosity, why are you doing standardized testing? I know some states require it, but California doesn't. My kids are in a charter school so they now take those tests each year, but I don't find them to be an accurate assessment of their levels. AT ALL. Especially in math. The STAR test in California is supposed to be aligned with state standards, but those standards and my curriculum just don't line up at all. I always figured if my kids are advancing through my chosen math curricula then that is a good enough assessment for me. And I was reassured when a friend who is a high school math teacher quipped that the STAR tests are written by monkeys! She has no faith in the exams either!

 

My oldest son started out very advanced in early elementary then hit a wall around puberty. Turns out he has some pretty profound learning disabilities, which I'm not suggesting is your dd's situation, but he went from being advanced to being behind to graduating a year early. My youngest started out rather average but just jumped a grade level this year. I've got whiplash from it all! You just can't predict what kind of high schooler you will have so focus on the 9 year old in front of you and meet the needs she has now.

 

Your dd may be going through a growth spurt and her academic development is temporarily on hold. It would happen even if she were in a brick and mortar school.

[Matryoshka]

And see, I'm the type that's already thinking, "If I hold her back, I'd better do it now, rather than in or near high school. Correct the problem sooner rather than later, and avoid more of the social issues related to it as well."

 

 

Well, in almost everything I've signed her up for class-wise, she has been in 2nd grade this year. At Sat. School they're very strict about the age cut-offs, so that's where she is (and it's been an advantage in a way because she has had a really easy time with reading and such). If she does ballet or sports I always sign her up with her age, as I figure what math she's doing has absollutely no bearing on anything physical. At church, she had been in 2nd last year, but last year they combined the 1st and 2nd grades, and she had a good friend the grade below, so she held herself back this year. ("But you're in 3rd grade this year!" "No, I'm going into the 2nd grade class!") I didn't put up any fight - it's church school, she should be with the kids she wants to be with, and they're her age anyway.

 

It's actually this last bit that really had me questioning myself. If I ever did send her to high school, I'm thinking I'd probably register her by age and she could always take classes ahead (which is much harder to do before then).

 

I did give her a standardized test this year and did decide to give her the 3rd grade test - part of the reason was to see how she did. If she bombed it, there's my answer. :tongue_smilie: I actually doubt she bombed it, but I also figured it would point out weaknesses/strengths better than if I gave her a test that was too easy and she just got everything right. We'll see what comes back... I don't have to report the scores, so it's just for my informational purposes (and I'm not going to share with her, either).

[HeatherInWI]

My advice is always to teach them at the level they're at in each subject. The only way to go is forward, and the only way to go forward is from where they are. The standardized testing may give you a good guideline on where to start from in each area for next year, and, who knows, you may even be relieved when the results arrive. You could always call next year 4/5 or 5/6 if you're between grade levels and really feel the need to declare a grade.

[FlockOfSillies]

I do the CAT/5 starting in 3rd grade, to see how we're doing. I have found that the CAT/5 has confirmed my suspicions in many ways. It's actually been pretty good. I'd prefer the Stanford 9 (since it's what I always took when I was in school), but I'd have to join an umbrella school for that.

 

I'm also surrounded by local, well-meaning-but-worried relatives whose "shouldn't you put them in school" questions will only get more frequent as the years go by. My sis is a school psychologist, and while I'd love for her to test my dd, I don't want to hear her "solutions" to any of my problems. (She can't believe that anyone thinks it's possible to hs an autistic kid, for example.)

 

I don't worry about some of the scores -- social studies and science -- since one of the reasons I hs is to avoid doing things the ps way. I started hsing because I thought I could do a better job than the b&m alternatives. If I really can't do it, and with a bright kid to boot, then what am I doing?

 

I do think my dd is starting down the road to puberty. The drama level has definitely increased around here. That's saying a lot, considering I have a redhead, LOL.

[FlockOfSillies]

I guess here is where you need to stop being hung up on 'grade' and start looking at age. My DD is 4 and i have a buffer of 2 years before i have to register her here. She is bright but i have already decided that i will not be calling her a grade. She is 4, end of story. The fact that she reads and comprehends at a 5th grade level, no prob, the fact that she is flying through 1st grade math, no prob. She is still a 4yo, not a pre-K, K or 1st grader.

 

Maybe you should just look at your DC as an 9yo and if you feel she needs to pull her socks up in some areas work on that. Does it really matter which level book she is in? Work through it at her speed, fast or slow, that is the beauty of HSing. If she needs extra work in math, then work harder at it for longer, change things up, maybe she just isn't mathy???

 

Just my 0.02c.

 

Here in CA, I do have to declare a grade for each of my students. The requirements don't go much beyond that. When people ask her what grade she's in, she tells them her grade, and then follows up with her little "why I'm not in my age grade" speech. :glare:

 

It didn't matter to me so much what book she was in when she was 4, especially since she was ahead. Woo hoo! But now I have to start looking ahead to high school and college. We're laying the groundwork for all of that now. I'm really starting to have doubts.

 

Here's an example: my goal is for my kids to be taking algebra in 8th grade. That means they need to be at such-and-such a point in 7th, which trickles down to 6th, etc. Now multiply that times science, and language arts.

 

I don't want to get to the point where I'm thinking my kids are at a certain level, when they're actually below it. When the time comes for them to take their SATs, or sign up for a cc class, I want to make sure they can handle it, and that we haven't been deluding ourselves all these years. Then, if I find out much later, I won't have time to fix the problem.

 

This particular dc is weakest in math; always has been. If she has to take Algebra I in 9th, then that's the way it'll be. But it might make college admissions more difficult by the time she's in high school.

[LisaKinVA]

Hey Flock -- I feel your pain. Although, I never declared my son in a higher grade officially, I just went with his age-grade (which still puts him at the very young-end of his age-grade mates in local PS).

 

I just got back my ds9 CAT tests... and I am left dumbfounded! He's still "ahead" -- but these aren't the scores I'm used to seeing. Trying to be calm, perhaps we've just hit a speed bump (baby and all), or maybe he didn't "feel" like taking the test -- he's rushed through it before:tongue_smilie:

 

But, I think it's fine to slow your dd down a bit. When she's ready, she'll pick up the pace.

[FlockOfSillies]

I hope you're right. Last year she tanked on the CAT/5 -- she ran out of time for 7 out of 10 tests. I'm hoping we don't have a repeat of that this year. OTOH, we won't be having the drywall contractor in the house that week, either. Oy.

[KAR120C]

I took a peek at some of your recent posts to get some perspective and background.... and it sounds like this year was a really hard, stressful year in general. I don't know if I'd made any decisions right now -- not until you've had a break anyway!

 

And from what you've said about last year's testing, she ran out of time and there were distractions... I don't think I'd judge her level by her speed (if that was the only issue), for one, and if you think the distractions were an issue I'd pretty much just chuck that test report in the trash and see what happens this year! Also your DD is in Singapore 4A, right? She might well test fine -- I'd see how it goes before you make any changes. How does she do with her day-to-day work?

[FlockOfSillies]

Her day-to-day math work is so-so. Some days, she nails it. Other days, she's either careless or clueless. Just the other day she skipped three answers on a review or a practice, and it made the difference between an A and a B. She's pretty much a C student in math. Recently I had her increase her workload to three exercises a day, just so we can finish 4A before the end of the school year. She's been really slow to learn her math facts, which has hurt her computation speed. It's the one area where her fabulous memory just goes to pieces.

 

As for the testing last year, she did great on the first three tests and then went kerplooey. I reminded her about not spending too much time on one question, figuring out how much time to spend on each before the test starts, yadda yadda, and none of it helped. She would get stuck on one problem and it would take her a long time to move on.

[Donna]

Can I call what we're doing "5th grade" for even an average student? I just don't know, and I'm not sure an annual standardized test is going to be enough over the years to tell me. I want some sort of benchmark for me to look at from time to time throughout the year and see how we're doing.

 

I never realized how much the game would change when upper elementary/middle school arrived. The stakes seem so much higher, and my efforts seem completely inadequate. :crying:

 

If you want to know what your dd would be learning year by year if she were in public school, look at the curriculum standards for your state. They are on the internet and fairly easily found with a websearch.

 

As for backing up, I don't really call my kids "any" grade, per se. We homeschool, they are at a variety of levels depending on the subject, and a grade level really has no meaning or significance for us. I do teach each child at the level they are learning, though. If they don't get it the first time, we go back and do it again...and sometimes again until they have it solidly.

 

For example, my middle ds is very bright but not all that interested in anything that could be considered school. He can tell you anything there is to know about guitars, bands, cooking, and could probably build a reasonably nice house if given the tools and materials as he is very handy. His free time is spent doing things with his hands and inventing. That being said, he is about 2-3 grade levels ahead in math and until this year went along at a pretty fast clip.

 

This year, he hit a wall where would learn and do problems correctly for a few chapters and their tests then hit a spot where he was getting problems wrong...even those he had gotten correct previously. So, we went back a few chapters and he relearned the material. We have done that twice...on nearly the same chapters...this year. It does him no good to move on if he hasn't learned it solidly. In past years, he would complete about 1.5 levels by this time but this year he has about 31 lessons to complete in this level.

 

So, I think you should go back if she hasn't learned the material, whether or not that means naming her a different grade or not is up to you. If she has learned the material but you feel she isn't doing producing as much work as she should then maybe you can work on increasing her production next year without "going back," just require more from her with what she is currently learning.

[Wildiris]

Hi,

Like JennW inSo Cal I live in CA and belong to a charter school. My DD, 6th grade, has always been advanced in some areas and not in others. I found she began to catch up to herself at around 9. This means that her being advanced began to look more like normal.

 

Reading over your posts it seems you could back off from the grade issue and take a perspective on your DC as a whole. How do you define a good education and is that the goal you've set for your DC ? Each kid is different and each kid has their strengths and weaknesses. I agree with Jenn about the state testing. It doesn't give an accurate picture of a child's learning.

 

Math~ it sounds like you're using Singapore Math. My DD, who excels in math, spent hours on some problems in Singapore. Because of the nature of the problems, Singapore Math requires deeper thought than "regular" math. Have you looked at Chalkdust Math. I've used it for pre ~algebra and have liked it. Singapore Math does not drill facts. Perhaps you might want to use Saxon along with Singapore.

Edited May 16, 2009 by Wildiris
spilled coffee

[Storm Bay]

Work at the level she needs in each subject, regardless of which "grade" it is. I have a 14 yo who was 2 years ahead, who'll be starting high school at 14 (same as ps age peers) because of hormones & lack of concentration. I have a ds who had trouble learning to read (vision stuff, now fixed), etc, who was "behind." His reading suddenly soared last fall, and his math is catching up right now, from nearly 1 year behind, to grade level by Sept, then perhaps accelleration. He is gifted, but we have to work with kids where they are, not worrying about what we did, what our families did, what their peers are doing.

[DarlaS]

Just out of curiosity, have you been declaring her grade level to the state as the advanced level she's been working at? If so, why?

[Storm Bay]

Just out of curiosity, have you been declaring her grade level to the state as the advanced level she's been working at? If so, why?

 

I don't see this threaded, but in case you're asking me, I did enroll her one year ahead when we first pulled her out of ps. I was green to homeschooling and thought that if she ever had to go back to ps that would help. However, when she was obviously not mature enough to handle a high school load at 13, despite the academical readiness, I enrolled her in 8/9. After a phone call I had about something else, it sounds like they just ignored all that anyway and went by her age. This is going to work out well for swimming on the local ps hs team, as she's physically young for her age, too, still small for swimming (5 ft 3 in, and a whopping "just over 90" pounds--just over 90 is all I can get from her on this), and being the right age will help. My 11 yo is still enrolled 1 year ahead and wants to stay that way, but I may change it for sports if she wants to compete. It's difficult to get them in if they're too young.

 

By the time my ds was old enough, I was smarter, so to speak, and put him in K/1 when he was 6 (he was really doing K, because he hadn't been ready to read), and then his age grade ever since. This is working out well, because now that he's starting to zoom along, he's going to be completely caught up in almost everything by Sept, and then ahead in math for sure by mid year. He zoomed ahead in reading last fall once we started patching his weak eye at age 8. I expect him to be ahead in everything except spelling & composition by next summer, and we'll see about those as he matures. His fine motor skills have always been behind, except when he's drawing airplanes & airports; his handwriting is definitely immature.

 

In our case, all of our dc are in the gifted range, so I've been expecting a big catch up & zooming ahead by ds. It's not going as quickly as it might since he's a reluctant scholar, but once I started maintaining a more consistent schedule, it's happening anyway. I do better late than early when they're little, depending on their interests, then gradually move them into a more draconian system as they go through middle school. That's not to say that everything is easy before then, just not pure WTM, etc. We use a modified form of WTM, which started because my girls did not do well with rote learning by the time they were of school age.

Edited May 19, 2009 by Karin