STOW isn't Christian based?

[mumkins]

I had always assumed it was. One of the reason's I left using SL as my core was I wanted my texts written from a Chrstian perspective. I couldn't stand Usborne.

Edited May 15, 2009 by mumkins

[mom31257]

You might look at Mystery of History. All of the volumes are not out yet, though, is my understanding.

[Greta]

The author is Christian, but wrote the books to be usable by those of us who aren't as well as those who are.

 

But I was surprised by your post, because I always thought Sonlight was very much a Christian curriculum!

[Sara in WA]

What exactly do you mean by Christian based or from a Christian perspective? I ask this because I often see this criticism about SOTW. Do you mean is the author writing from a Christian world view? Or do you mean is SOTW about Christian history topics? Or are you looking for God to be referenced often? Or for it to be a Bible course?

 

From what I gather (and of course I'm not the author or the publisher!), SOTW is what is says - the world's history. There is much in the world's history that is not related to Christianity. What is connected to Christianity seems right on.

 

It is written from a Christian perspective in that, from what I understand, SWB is a professing Christian and she is has written history of various parts of the world and time periods. I believe books can be written from a Christian perspective without having to refer to God or Christ or Bible verses in each chapter. The writing is beautiful and true.

 

I think that's sufficient and that is what we are looking for in the history we present to our children. One thing we do add is the emphasis that certain myths are not true and other faiths presented are not worshipping the one true God. We are learning about them because they are a part of the world's history.

 

- Sara

[Brindee]

I love SOTW and just add anything I want to the mix to make it what we like. When we did ancients, we used the timelines and figures from www.timelinesetc.com We made a timeline on a wall, and above the line we put Biblical things, and below the line we put the historical things NOT from the Bible. It was a GREAT year! We learned so much, and were able to see and compare the Biblical and other historical things and see how the coincided! We did many of the activities in the Activity Guide, and had a WONDERFUL year of learning! Don't let that stop you from enjoying the beauty of SOTW!

[Samiam]

If I remember correctly, SWB talks in her book about incorporating your own family's religious beliefs into your curriculum, thereby leaving the door open for any person of faith or non-faith to walk through their "own door" so to speak, in that aspect of education.

I know that WTM talks about her homeschooling studies, which did incorporate religious study, and if I am correct, she has a degree in theology (????).

 

But to answer the question to the bare mininum: No, SOTW is NOT a curriculum that teaches Christianity. On the other hand, Sonlight very much is. Surprised to hear you left Sonlight for that particular reason.

[lovetobehome]

I would take a look at samples of both SOTW and MOH to see how DRASTICALLY different they are. I would consider SOTW pretty much secular. MOH tries to look at history as God's plan for mankind, which is evident in every single lesson....a very different approach. I prefer MOH, hands down, and I also found SL to be lacking in that area (for history anyway, mostly)

[mumkins]

SL is Christian....but they use so much secular stuff it's hard to wade your way through. So much old earth and evolution, so much talk over other gods. In just their kindergarten program. I'm all for my kids being inriduced to that. But when they are just 5 and 7 and I gotta explain daily why the book is wrong. It just doesn't work for me.

 

Sara in WA- I want it to include the history of the whole world, not just biblical or western culture. But I want it done from the perspective that God is the creator and include biblical history in it.

 

Does MOH have whole world history? Like what's going on on all continents at the same time?

[nutmeg]

Does MOH have whole world history? Like what's going on on all continents at the same time?

 

Yes. I think MOH might be just the thing you're looking for:

http://www.themysteryofhistory.com/volumeI.shtml

[momtotkbb]

Agreeing that MOH might be more like what you are looking for. I haven't used it bec I prefer SOTW. You might also look at MFW (http://www.mfwbooks.com).

[Kim in SouthGa]

Are you looking into the Ancients year? MOH has so much Biblical history, that I believe (JMHO) that it falls short on other history. SOTW did not include enough Bible history for us. So we used a combination of the two.

 

As our homeschool journey progresses, and I gain experience and a sense of purpose for our educational goals, I lean more toward SWB's idea of letting the family integrate their own religious views. We are Calvinist, and it is just as discouraging to have to correct theological differences as it is to correct ideas like evolution. In fact, it can be more confusing for the kids when it comes from a Christian text, because it is a Christian belief, just not one we believe.

 

I think the goal is to have a Christian worldview so intertwined in everything we do, that it is inseperable. I am finding that as I grow and mature spiritually, this is easier and easier to do with my kids naturally, without having to depend on a curriculum to do it for me.

 

We all LOVE SOTW! We are about to begin volume 4, and as a very conservative Christian, I have not had any problems with it. Well, I was not real fond of the first chapter in vol. 1, about early man. We just skipped it and read about Creation from a story Bible.

 

Have you looked into Veritas Press? It might be just what you are looking for.

 

HTH

[Another Lynn]

The other difference between MOH and SOTW to consider is writing style. Though I loved the perspective in MOH and wanted to use it, I preferred narrative history. MOH reads more like someone has come over and sat at your table to tell you about history over a cup of coffee. In other words it is more conversational than story-like, imho.

 

I would recommend you read as many samples as you can before you make a decision as this may effect your choice. I do not at all discount the importance of worldview, but the best worldview won't help you if you can't stand to read the book.

[lovetobehome]

I agree, look at MOH if you want just history. MOH incorporates history all over the world, secular and Biblical. Their website should have samples, as would cbd.com and rainbowresource.com.

 

If you want a Biblical curriculum that incorporates history and science and art and writing (ie, a full curriculum), look to Heart of Dakota or My Father's World. I love all 3, and have used all 3!

[lovetobehome]

Another idea, if you really love SOTW, is to use SOTW and MOH together, bopping back and forth between both. My sister does this, and she is very happy with the combo. I tried doing that, but I quickly ditched SOTW. I felt like you did with SL. I had the very issue you described with SL, and I also found the same problems in SOTW.

[Brindee]

I also found the same problems in SOTW.

I don't think it's SOTW that has the problems, as it was never promoted as a Christian text! I'm a very Christian person, but I loved SOTW Ancients for the myriad of background history it gave. I loved the activity guide for the myriad of ideas it gave as well, plus we looked up and did more stuff from the internet and other readings. As I said earlier, we studied a Biblical perspective right alongside it and compared the two, which was great for the kids!

 

It's open for you to add in whatever beliefs you want, and compare with that viewpoint that she brings across! My kids have grown up with the Bible stories and knew all about those. So it was so fun for them to compare the stories from history and when they happened in comparison to what they knew from the Bible.

 

If you prefer something which includes the history of the world and the Bible all done up for you, then there are curriculums like that as well, which are previously mentioned. That doesn't mean SOTW has problems, it means that you would like something other than what it offers! :001_smile:

[lovetobehome]

I agree with you, Brindee....I actually often recommend SOTW to many Christians, to my best friend even (whose son is my godchild). And my sister whose hubby is a priest uses it as you describe, and she loves the combination.

I think it is an awesome history curriculum! Very user-friendly and very well done.

Just not the one for me. To be clear, I was not meaning to say that SOTW has problems....I was saying that I found *I* had the same problem with SOTW and SL as described by another poster. I worded that very poorly in my previous post, sorry about that! :-)

[Brindee]

I agree with you, Brindee....I actually often recommend SOTW to many Christians, to my best friend even (whose son is my godchild). And my sister whose hubby is a priest uses it as you describe, and she loves the combination.

I think it is an awesome history curriculum! Very user-friendly and very well done.

Just not the one for me. To be clear, I was not meaning to say that SOTW has problems....I was saying that I found *I* had the same problem with SOTW and SL as described by another poster. I worded that very poorly in my previous post, sorry about that! :-)

Okay, I get it, no problem! :001_smile: I've just read a lot of posts where it says this doesn't do this and doesn't do that so it's not a good program. Yet, you have others that LOVE the program because it's helped their kids catch on! My kids detested Saxon, so I may say that, but I never say it's not a good program, since there are so many it has helped! Some kids detest R&S English Grammar, when that's the program that helped get my kids feet on the ground to really learning grammar! Some people naysay LoF maths and say it's not a complete program. Others have compared LoF to Lial's or Jacob's or one of those, and it covers the same components to the same degree that different programs can. My kids happen to love LoF too.

 

Anyway, sorry, I tend to jump on that too quickly---to defend the PROGRAM as opposed to whether that's what works for the child. You gave a very gracious response, thankyou! :001_smile:

[hmschooling]

Depending on your kids ages, you might like Heart of Dakota better. It approaches everything from a Christian world view. And I know exactly what you mean by "written from a Christian perspective"...Bible history IS history and secular history is just what is not included in the Bible-- secular history also leaves out MANY events in history just b/c they are in the Bible, even though they really happened. Heart of Dakota is AWESOME in all areas and truly a Christian curriculum in all areas. You could do just the history portion, but you might just find you love it all!

[sagira]

To the OP: Perhaps you can also take a look at Biblioplan and TruthQuest. Then there's also The Story of the Ancient World by Christine Miller.

Edited May 13, 2009 by sagira

[Rebecca77]

I understand exactly where your coming from. After using TOG, which so beautifully integrates biblical history, I felt like we were in the desert while using Sonlight core 6. We've started using Truthquest and Veritas Press, and let me tell you, the huge gap has been filled and it is so refreshing!!!

[mazakaal]

SOTW isn't Christian based, but I had no problems with using it with my dc. I recommend that you try to borrow a copy from a friend or the library to check it out yourself. It doesn't incorporate Bible history (other than a few things), but I don't feel it promotes secularism either. It really is very neutral, covering other religions briefly from a historical perspective. You could easily cover Bible alongside SOTW using the Vos Child's Story Bible.

 

I know others have recommended MOH to you, but, though I love the program, I wouldn't recommend it for kids as young as yours. You would be better off waiting a few years before using it.

 

If you read through SOTW and still don't like want to use it, you could check out MFW or Biblioplan. I wouldn't recommend The Story of the Ancient World because it really only covers Bible history, not the history of the whole ancient world.

 

Hope you find something that fits.

[sagira]

I wouldn't recommend The Story of the Ancient World because it really only covers Bible history, not the history of the whole ancient world.

 

Really? Have I been misled? Well at least I didn't buy it. Here's the description from the publisher:

 

"From the Creation of the world through the fall of the Persian empire at the hands of Alexander the Great in 331 BC, The Story of the Ancient World retells as an engaging narrative the history of mankind’s beginning, the rise of the nations, and the story of the great ancient civilizations of the Sumerians, the Hebrews, the Egyptians, the Phoenicians, the Assyrians, the Babylonians, and the Persians. Old Testament history is taken as authoritative, and the history of the other great ancient civilizations is also told, woven in and out of the Old Testament story at the proper places in the narrative."

[budeb]

pp said "SL is Christian....but they use so much secular stuff it's hard to wade your way through. So much old earth and evolution, so much talk over other gods. In just their kindergarten program. I'm all for my kids being inriduced to that. But when they are just 5 and 7 and I gotta explain daily why the book is wrong. It just doesn't work for me."

 

I guess for me it is different. I heard only one side growing up and when evolution was introduced in school I made evolution fit in with scripture because teachers know everything, right? Sonlight is not meant to be done by the child on his or her own. It is meant to be parent directed and discussion will follow so that your child will be able to see all sides of the argument and then be able to choose wisely what he or she believes instead of just believing what mom or dad say.

 

I chose Sonlight for this reason and it is so neat to have discussions with my 6 and 4 year old that I never had with my parents.

 

Deb

[Lovedtodeath]

My plan is to use SOTW along with a children's bible or Our Young Folk's Josephus. Bibliopan or Story of the World by M.B Synge might be good fits for you.

 

Story of the World Volume 1 mentions Abraham, Joseph and Jesus. Nothing is mentioned of Israel except when they are scattered or destroyed. I actually find the history of Israel very lacking, as one must know that it was split into two kingdoms or the stories of scattering and destruction make no sense.

 

I am currently reading Little History of the World, which I understood was considered more secular than SOTW and there is more information both about Israel and Christians in it.

Edited May 14, 2009 by Lovedtodeath

[siloam]

Sara,

 

Here is a comparison I did a while back, we used both when my oldest was in 1st/2nd grade:

 

MOH teaches history from a Biblical perspective. As if the Bible is fact. It also comes from a young earth perspective (that there was a literal 7 day creation and the earth is only roughly 7000 years old right now). Volume 1 of MOH is very heavy on Biblical history and volume 2 is heavy on church history. The tone is conversational, like Linda is sitting there talking to the child. If you want to seem more samples try the publisher, Bright Ideas Press. They have different weeks up for samples. :D

 

SOTW doesn't touch on creation. It includes religious or moral tales from all the major civilizations. Because the story of Abraham is the root of three different major religions (Judaism, Christianity and Muslims) it is also included, though it states that Abraham worshiped a moon god before being called. That is not stated in the Bible, but they have found what they think is UR and there a moon god was worshiped, so SWB makes the logical leap. This in one of the places she gets into trouble with some Christians. Another place is where she states that Alexander the Great's empire was divided up into 3 regions instead of the Biblical 4. Generally Christians believe it was divided into 4 and that one of the generals quickly overtook his son's portion, probably killing his son, which is why there is no archeological evidence for 4 division, just 3. The tone is of someone telling a story.

 

I know a lot of conservative Christians who don't want to expose their children to any other religions till they are older, so SOTW is a problem for them. Some secular users have a problem with the amount of Christian content, or maybe even the amount of religion in general. In some respects SWB just can't win. :001_huh:

 

Now that we have covered content lets move on to how they work as history programs.

 

MOH is designed to be taught over 4 days. It has three lessons, with each lesson having an activity (there are three levels of activities, from easy for little kids to papers and such for older students), then it has prompts for mapping, timeline work, a comprehension quiz and prompts for a 3x5 memory card system to be done on day 4. You can follow a different schedule if you like, but that is how it is laid out. I had younger children when I used it so I just read the lessons.

 

SOTW is just text. You can purchase the Activity guide, which has a lot of additional material. Then it is up to you what pieces to use and which to ignore, but here are the pieces the AG includes are: a schedule so you can read any of the 4 most popular visual encyclopedias with SOTW, comprehension questions, narrations prompts, additional history readings (often activity guides, or cultural books), corresponding literature suggestions (historical fiction or literature from the time), map work, coloring pages, projects (these are usually involved about the middle level of MOH activities), review cards. It will also include activities like crossword puzzles and games, but these are not available for each chapter.

 

Feel free to ask questions if you have any.

 

Heather

 

[Lovedtodeath]

It includes religious or moral tales from all the major civilizations. I really don't see how a history of the world would not do that. Why did the Egyptians build the pyramids? You need their religion to understand anything. Because the story of Abraham is the root of three different major religions (Judaism, Christianity and Muslims) it is also included, though it states that Abraham worshiped a moon god before being called. That is not stated in the Bible, but they have found what they think is UR and there a moon god was worshiped, so SWB makes the logical leap. This in one of the places she gets into trouble with some Christians. Joshua 24:2 says a little something about Abraham's father and she took the meaning in this way, adding the archeological evidence to conclude that it was the moon god. Another place is where she states that Alexander the Great's empire was divided up into 3 regions instead of the Biblical 4. Generally Christians believe it was divided into 4 and that one of the generals quickly overtook his son's portion, probably killing his son, which is why there is no archeological evidence for 4 division, just 3.

 

Alexander the Great's Kingdom Divided into 3? 4?

 

 

Susan Wise Bauer's Answer:

 

 

Quote:

It ended up in three, but there were a number of stages to the division, so various books simplify in various ways. Not to plug my own book, but the History of the Ancient World breaks it down into the stages.

 

SWB

[Lovedtodeath]

But to answer the question to the bare mininum: No, SOTW is NOT a curriculum that teaches Christianity. On the other hand, Sonlight very much is. Surprised to hear you left Sonlight for that particular reason.

 

You should really look at My Father's World. :)

[Lovedtodeath]

Really? Have I been misled? Well at least I didn't buy it. Here's the description from the publisher:

 

"From the Creation of the world through the fall of the Persian empire at the hands of Alexander the Great in 331 BC, The Story of the Ancient World retells as an engaging narrative the history of mankind’s beginning, the rise of the nations, and the story of the great ancient civilizations of the Sumerians, the Hebrews, the Egyptians, the Phoenicians, the Assyrians, the Babylonians, and the Persians. Old Testament history is taken as authoritative, and the history of the other great ancient civilizations is also told, woven in and out of the Old Testament story at the proper places in the narrative."

 

That sounds great.

[Audrey]

Some secular users have a problem with the amount of Christian content, or maybe even the amount of religion in general.

 

This comes up frequently and is certainly true for me. I find SOTW vol. 1 to be much too Christocentric for me to use. The other volumes were presented in a more secular manner, although vol. 2 was pushing it a little.

 

But... that is just my opinion. Obviously, opinions on SOTW vary widely depending upon the perspective from which you are viewing it.

[Lovedtodeath]

This comes up frequently and is certainly true for me. I find SOTW vol. 1 to be much too Christocentric for me to use.

Could you be specific? What did you use as an alternative?

[Kathleen in VA]

The reason I prefer SOTW over other history programs, especially those written from a Christian viewpoint, is that my Christianity doesn't always line up with other folks' Christianity. We are Baptists and much of the Christian curriculum I find out there is written from a Reformed Presbyterian perspective. We do hold to what some would call "reformed" beliefs (specifically the Doctrines of Grace), but only to a certain extent. Most reformers believe in infant baptism, but Baptists do not. Other Christian texts come from an Arminian theological perspective - another thing I can't abide.

 

I would rather start with something that is not meant to push a certain Christian perspective and have to constantly say things like, "Actually we don't believe that is true," or "That is what some Christians believe, but not us." SOTW was written so that each family could add their own beliefs to it and not have to undo someone else's in order to use it. There just isn't anything out there that mirrors my beliefs exactly so I much prefer having something that doesn't even try.

[Audrey]

Could you be specific? What did you use as an alternative?

 

I created my own unit studies covering the various ancient civilizations. The "Life in Ancient...." series published by Crabtree was particularly helpful as spines for the units.

[Lovedtodeath]

Thank you.

[dangermom]

I would rather start with something that is not meant to push a certain Christian perspective and have to constantly say things like, "Actually we don't believe that is true," or "That is what some Christians believe, but not us." SOTW was written so that each family could add their own beliefs to it and not have to undo someone else's in order to use it. There just isn't anything out there that mirrors my beliefs exactly so I much prefer having something that doesn't even try.

This is pretty much exactly how I feel. I would much rather be able to teach our family's beliefs myself and not have to rely on buying the exact right curriculum (there isn't a world history curr. based on our belief system anyway, even if I wanted one) or constant editing.

 

SWB has a whole essay on this right here on this site: A Neutral Education? In it, she states that

The responsibility for teaching truth to children belongs to believing parents who are faithful members of a local church. If you should not abdicate this responsibility to the government, why should you abdicate it to curriculum writers or religious book publishers? You cannot see our lives; you cannot determine our faithfulness to our local church; you cannot see the fruits of our lives. We can provide you with a good plan for teaching grammar and math, but I do not believe that we should usurp the job of your believing community by explaining the ways of God in history to your children.

 

I actually disagree with some of her premises in the essay, probably because I'm not a Protestant and don't hold the same views as she does, but I wholeheartedly agree with the conclusion--it's not the curriculum's job to teach our beliefs to our children. It's our job. Therefore I'm not looking for our curriculum to match our beliefs; I just want it not to get in the way of our teaching our beliefs ourselves.

Edited May 14, 2009 by dangermom

[mazakaal]

Really? Have I been misled? Well at least I didn't buy it. Here's the description from the publisher:

 

"From the Creation of the world through the fall of the Persian empire at the hands of Alexander the Great in 331 BC, The Story of the Ancient World retells as an engaging narrative the history of mankind’s beginning, the rise of the nations, and the story of the great ancient civilizations of the Sumerians, the Hebrews, the Egyptians, the Phoenicians, the Assyrians, the Babylonians, and the Persians. Old Testament history is taken as authoritative, and the history of the other great ancient civilizations is also told, woven in and out of the Old Testament story at the proper places in the narrative."

 

I just went through my copy. Seventeen out of 128 chapters are NOT about Bible history. It, of course, covers those cultures that are directly involved in Bible history a little bit in the chapters on Bible history, but really it's mostly the story of the Bible. And it doesn't cover any ancient cultures outside of the Bible lands.

 

I had really high hopes for the book and waited with expectancy for it to be published, but was very disappointed when I got it. It's a beautiful book and well written, but not what I expected.

[Lovedtodeath]

I just went through my copy. Seventeen out of 128 chapters are NOT about Bible history. It, of course, covers those cultures that are directly involved in Bible history a little bit in the chapters on Bible history, but really it's mostly the story of the Bible. And it doesn't cover any ancient cultures outside of the Bible lands.

 

I had really high hopes for the book and waited with expectancy for it to be published, but was very disappointed when I got it. It's a beautiful book and well written, but not what I expected.

Do you think it would work well for someone to use it along with SOTW to get the Bible history in with the other world history?

[mazakaal]

Do you think it would work well for someone to use it along with SOTW to get the Bible history in with the other world history?

 

Yes, it would be perfect for that, just not good as an ancient history spine on its own, imo.

[mumkins]

Thank you everyone for your suggestions! I actually am using HOD. I just started Beyond. But there's three straight years of US history and we're Canadian. I was looking to maybe teach something else in there. Maybe more whole world rather than US. Or supplement anyway. I've always been instrested in STOW and MOH too. I was just surprised when I read STOW wasn't taught from a Christian stand point begining with Creation.

[Lovedtodeath]

I couldn't stand Usborne.

 

Just a note that as far as I know there are no Christian based History Encyclopedias. Which Usborne books did you not like? What history encyclopedia are you currently using? I am not familiar with HOD other than what I have seen others saying.

 

I really think that MFW would work well for you as an alternative to HOD.

[mumkins]

We used the children's encylopedia I believe. But I didn't like anything else by them such as thei starting point science or first guide to the universe. We don't have an encyclopedia.

 

I'm enjoying HOD right now, but I'l keep MFW in mind.

[Brindee]

I've always been instrested in STOW and MOH too. I was just surprised when I read STOW wasn't taught from a Christian stand point begining with Creation.

Sorry to be nit-picky, just pointing out something: It's SOTW (Story of the World). :001_smile:

[Lovedtodeath]

We used the children's encylopedia I believe. But I didn't like anything else by them such as thei starting point science or first guide to the universe. We don't have an encyclopedia.

 

I'm enjoying HOD right now, but I'l keep MFW in mind.

 

We didn't like most of the Usborne that came with SL either. We love the Internet-Linked Encyclopedia of History, Usborne Beginners, Story of the Romans, Almanac of World History, etc. They have really good readers and history books. Don't avoid them because of your bad experience with SL.

 

DK and Kingfisher have some good things for geography and science. You might look at http://www.elementalscience.com/

Edited May 14, 2009 by Lovedtodeath

[mumkins]

Sorry to be nit-picky, just pointing out something: It's SOTW (Story of the World). :001_smile:

 

Lol....I never realized I was doing that.