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  1. I have two kids, girl in 1st and boy in K. Last year, DD "learned" to read in PS Kindergarten. In March, when quarantine began, I started her on AAR Level 1. She has(and I have) done OK with AAR. There are lots of parts I don't particularly like (fluency sheets, anyone???), and I've adapted it to add a little more practice reading at a lower level with BOB Books, and it's not going too badly. We are will begin AAR Level 2 in about 2 weeks. But frankly, she doesn't love reading, even though she does pretty well at it. Her biggest issue is guessing the words based on the pictures (taught in PS, I presume, ARGGGHH!!) I know usually AAS starts once you begin AAR level 2. She is very interested in spelling and writing so I feel it's the proper time to move forward with that. My dilemma is a bit two-fold, I think. Firstly, I personally don't LOVE AAR and I'm worried AAS is going to be much like it...eye-gouging worksheets, and lists we'll have to plough through, etc. And yes, I know spelling really isn't all that exciting, I remember learning it myself. Secondly, after going through AAR 1 with DD, and trying AAR Pre-reading with my son, I really don't think AAR level 1 is for him. For example, he would much rather shout out answers, march around the room chanting a/A/ah, and act out c-a-t as is called for in LOE than flip paper eggs over or cut paper vegetables with a paper knife to illustrate compound words, like in AAR. He's just not into doing things with paper, or pencils. So, I'm going to try LOE with him when we finish AAR Pre after Christmas. With LOE, you learn to read and spell at the same time. I'm not sure how that's going to go with him, since he's JUST now learning his alphabet...anyway, we're going to try. My dilemma is, do I do LOE spelling with DD, while I'm doing it with DS, (which will be SUPER slow for her, since they start with "cat" "dad" and "sad"), do I just wait to do spelling with her till I MAYBE switch her over to LOE levels C/D (as I'm thinking about doing after finishing AAR level 2), or just tough it out with AAS? Or just find another spelling program altogether. Also, would there be any difficulty switching her over to LOE from AAR? That is, of course, assuming I love it for my son, which is admittedly, unknown yet. Thanks!
  2. Seeking advice from this tribe of homeschoolers. I am new to the WTM Community online but have been homeschooling for 4 years. I have four kids DS 9, DD 7, DS 5, and DS 6 months. My husband was homeschooled so he is very supportive of what I am doing. For the past three years, we have been in different CC communities (different ones bc of moving). I am disenchanted with CC. I don't want to start bashing CC, it just doesn't seem to be working for my family. However, it relives the burden of art and science and my kids love the social time. I am thinking about talking to my husband about not returning next year. However, we have already paid a deposit. 😐 I know he will be concerned and ask questions if I can do it on my own. Its been a difficult year with the new baby and recovery process. Right now, I only get through Language Arts LOE and Horizons Math every day. I will start Apples and Pears Spelling soon with my DS 9. It scares me when I reread WTM and see everything she suggests. Grammar, spelling, reading, writing, science, art. etc. How do I devote that much time to older three and take care of a baby. I realize history, science, etc. can be taught in a group. But getting my kids to get their math done takes an hour. And its three different levels. After phonics, we are worn out. Okay, so after all this venting a question. How do you do it all?! Teaching multiple ages on different levels with a baby in tow? I wantI to follow WTM but my day to day just has too many people and emotions to deal with. I have looked at MCT for a long time for language arts and would love to do that next year, but DS 9 will be in Essentials next year and starting IEW. I'm nervous it will move too fast for him but I also don't know if I can teach it on my own. Please give me advice, encouragement and tell me what your day looks like with multiple kids!
  3. Has anyone gone through being totally overwhelmed by LOE? I have three boys in it. We are in Foundations A, B, and D. Is there another similar program that somehow reinforces things better or something? We are all getting lost in all of the rules. My oldest in D has a crazy memory, and even he is getting overwhelmed. I thought learning ALL THE THINGS for english was a good idea, but now I am questioning that. Any thoughts? Thanks. :/
  4. Basic question, is AAR/AAS less overwhelming than LOE? I would really, really appreciate any thoughts on AAR/AAS. We have been doing LOE Foundations. We have gone through A, B, C, and are currently in the middle of D. I had planned on continuing with Essentials, but we are struggling! I have four kids in the various levels of foundations and we are all overwhelmed. It seems like there is just not enough review of the different rules and things before we are off to learn another. So, either I need to figure out my own way to review or switch programs. Is AAR/AAS less overwhelming? I have read that it moves much slower, and has more review, which seems like a really good thing at this point. I would really prefer an all in one program, but I'm starting to question if LOE is right for us. Does anyone have any experience with any of these programs that would mind sharing their thoughts? I read AAR/AAS doesn't have the kiddo mark the words, that seems not so great. Are there any other big differences? I like the color and playfulness of Foundations, but what is the point if we aren't retaining anything? Thanks.
  5. Would it be possible to use these side by side? I have a 6.75 year old (1st grade) who needs the Foundations program to help with reading (and set a good baseline for grammar rules). She knows how to write letters and knows some very basic phonograms so she can read very early readers but is not confident and guesses some words unless I make her sound them out. I also have an 8 year old (3rd grade) who would be in the faster paced Essentials since she is an incredibly advanced reader. She knows some basic grammar rules, but I want to help her memorize more (along with a program that helps with spelling). Both enjoy writing. My 8 year old really wants to learn cursive as well. Should I just do Foundations for the younger one and find a different, less all-inclusive thing for the older? (like Cottage Press with some spelling?) Any Moms have close in age, but not quite in skill set and use LOE (either or both)? I know I need Foundations for the 1st grader if I go with LOE... I'm trying to figure out cost vs. reality vs. sanity :zombie: The other option is to use RLTL with DD6 and RLTL & ELTL with DD8... (clearly I've got my act together with T-10 days :ack2: )
  6. What phonics/reading curricula have very clear objectives or skills laid out before every lesson? Right now I'm looking at LOE because it is research-based and the online samples seem to have very clear objectives. This is important to me; I want to know what the goals of the lesson are so that I can tweak the lesson or supplement with practice and still meet the systematic learning objectives. I looked at AAR but the lack of clear objectives was frustrating. e.g. Why are we counting words? What's the point? Is it just so that she knows that sentences are made up of words or what? Any other curricula that spell out "the reasons why" for every lesson?
  7. Would someone explain the difference between these two? I understand that they both teach basically the same phonograms. How do they differ structurally? Does LoE Foundations take one year, and LoE Essentials take another year? I actually have RLTL, and while I like it, we hit the spelling lists, and I am floundering with explaining the rules and things. I guess maybe I need a little bit more hand holding or something, I don't know. :( Thanks for any help!
  8. I'm looking for an app for either an iPad or Kindle that is simple. I'm hoping to find one that would support an Orton-Gillingham approach similar to All About Spelling/Reading or Logic of English. I have both of their apps, and while they're helpful, I'd love to find one that would alleviate the need for actual manipulatives for youngest ds. Something travel-friendly. Any suggestions appreciated. :)
  9. I'm considering Logic of English after unsuccessful attempts to complete SWR or WWTR. I did successfully understand and teach the phonograms to my 3 oldest children, but we didn't get much further than that. I did some spelling dictation with my oldest daughter, but she and I both found it frustrating that there were so many steps and fingers and markings, etc. etc. All that is fine, but I was never sure that I was doing it right and we didn't get far enough to see those steps become natural to either one of us. So, now that my youngest is ready to learn the phonograms and my 2 middle children didn't get much spelling instruction, but just the phonograms, I want to try again and I'm thinking Logic of English will be more successful. I'm intrigued by the scriptedness of it. Otherwise, I don't feel confident in the material to use the WISE Guide or the WWTR manual. Thoughts? Also, I'm wondering since I still have the SWR phonogram flash cards, do I really need to buy the $18.00 (yikes - expensive) set of Logic of English cards? I was going to buy the e-book, PDF A and the student workbook PDF A, which amounts to only $25.00 to try it out. Thoughts on that? I own a print shop, so I don't mind the printing cost; it's cheap for us. But, I'm hesitant to buy the whole book for $75.00 (yikes!) if I am not going to understand how to implement it. I'm a very hands on type person, so I need to "do it" rather than just read about it to know if I can learn it and succeed at it. Thoughts again? Thanks to anyone who can help, offer advice, encouragement, support, etc. :D
  10. So I am a huge fan of AAR but this last year I've not been able to get as many lessons done with my son and he's "behind" a tad bit. We are just 4 short days from finishing AAR 1 and my son already reads way beyond that level. I was going to go ahead and buy AAR 2 but somehow I got onto LOE's website yesterday and I've got to say I'm completely intrigued with it for a few reasons. 1) I can complete LOE much quicker than I can finish the next 3 levels of AAR. My son has JUST turned 9 and has no learning disabilities. I just need to get a ful phonics program done with him and I want a primarily OG based program. 2) I've not found grammar that I'm fond of yet. LOE includes it along with vocabulary and composition. 3) Overall the cost would be much less to do LOE instead of AAR. More money up front but around $250 cheaper than doing all 4 levels of AAR and AAS. For those of you that have used AAR/AAS (we would start AAS as soon as we finish AAR 1) and LOE can you compare where the major differences are and what I would need to consider with a switch? Also please share how long your lessons take with LOE. I would be using a 16 week schedule as a frame work and of course taking longer on a lesson if needed. My son will technically be in 4th grade next year and it would be wonderful to be able to start him out at his right reading and spelling level hence the consideration to go to LOE vs. AAR. I was also going to use EIW with my son for writing but I'm wondering now if I would even need it with LOE's composition portions. Overall it seems that all my language arts would be covered for around a year in the price of LOE. Give me your thoughts and experiences please wonderful ladies (and a few gentlemen). Thank you!
  11. Hello, We're new to HSing. DS is 9 (as of Sunday). HFA Autism (4 year old PPD-NOS diagnosis), pending some more psycho-educational evaluations in February. Hoping to having a speech/language eval at some point in November. He would be in 3rd grade in school, but we're working on a 2nd to 3rd grade level with our curriculum choices. We're using Abeka Language 4 because he did 3 in private school last year, but I just ordered R&S English 3. Abeka 4 is too advanced for him and honestly I don't like Abeka Language. I was gifted R&S English 2 and having looked at it, it's way to easy for him. I'm thinking 3 will be perfect. He's reading on about a 2.5 grade level. We do lots of reading (mostly read alouds) and reading comprehension work Q&A's during and after the reading. He also does a novel study every week. Right now we're using the Magic Tree House books. He likes them and is able to read them on his own successfully and answer the questions I put together for the study. The core of our HS is the 3 R's although there isn't quite as much writing going on as there should be. He does 3rd grade science, social studies and music through our coop. That's a little background. I started using Logic of English Essentials this week. I'm trying to love it, but I'm not. For some reason it's not feeling that logical to me. We have only done two lessons, but I don't see the connection between the spelling words and the current lesson. For example in lesson 1 we had words with "nk" endings. That had absolutely nothing do with with the lesson. It was so random it bugged me. We enjoy playing the games, but it's early yet, so the games are just for fun as he already knew his phonegrams A-Z. He also knows most of the blends. My DS has a great memory. He already knows 600 or more of the Fry words and we are continuing with that list to 1000 and possibly keep going into the next Fry list. He'll know the 1000 by February or March if I keep up the pace. He's a good speller. Again memory, so I think I could teach him spelling by simply giving him a list of words every 10 days or so like he's had in school for the past 3 years and he'd spell those words. My goal when I purchased LOE was to teach him to understand English, but now that I've started I feel like it was a mistake. I feel like it's a wrong fit for him. I don't think he'll learn and process the spelling rules and all the exceptions. Not at this time. He's very literal, so I thought rules would be a good thing, but he struggles with processing information, applying it, and making inferences. He can't do a simple word problem and has some major comprehension issues. For those reasons I don't think he'll get all those rules. I don't want to overwhelm him. With that said, the other program that I was strongly considered going with was R&S Phonics for 2nd grade. We're reading the R&S Nurture Readers (2nd grade) which he loves and I like too, save for all the references to wickedness. It seems that would be more connected, so I'm feeling like I made a mistake buying LOE. We're still in the Nurture series Unit 1, so if I'm going to switch to the R&S Phonics it seems I should jump on it now. I'm not using the workbooks for Nurture. I have them, but I'm not using them yet. Right now I just want to enjoy the stories, at least though the 1st Unit. If I went with the phonics I'm sure we wouldn't use them at all as it'd be too much. I keep referring back to the samples page of the R&S phonics and asking myself why I didn't think that was good enough. I think I was impressed me with all the Youtube videos on LOE's channel. I also got caught up in the fantasy of my child "loving" to read because he "gets" it. ***sigh*** I'm not saying he won't ever, but I don't know. I'm feeling really confused right now. Should I give LOE more time? Does it make sense for continue teaching the Fry words? I hesitate to stop because they're so easy for him to learn. I'ts something he's easily successful at and we need those successes. Edited to add - The Fry 1000 is a sight word list. Very similar to Dolch but more words. Here's a link if anyone is interested. http://www.uniqueteachingresources.com/Fry-1000-Instant-Words.html Thanks in advance. Rhonda P.S. - Can someone tell me how to change my profile from Just Visiting? I've been registered for 2 years. I emailed administrators, but no one has responded. Thanks.
  12. I was wondering for those that use classical education and use any of the Orton/Spalding Spelling programs. I find myself learning more about Grammar Stage, and how easier is memorization for young children, and how logic, and a more analytical approach is best employed in 5th grade or so, depending on the child. Then I come to ask the wisdom from all of you that have used Spalding methods of spelling and agree with the classical aproach, I have used SWR and have read most of the other ones. Is the marking of the words a form of analylsis of the word, it is to me almost like a diagraming of the word. Am I asking too much from my K-2nd graders to do? Should they memorize the marking instead of being asked to analyze and mark? I wonder how many of you have used SWR/or other in a Classical way. Has anyone twicked these programs to better fit the grammar stage, with what results? I don't think I can compare a classical spelling program, like the ones sold at Memoria press, or other, as their aproach is different, teaching the long or short vowel sounds, instead of all the phonograms first. I ask because I am having a hard time with my children enduring markings, and they are little and really not understanding, they are K and 2nd. Could it be that their brains are not up to par? Belive me I have gone throught the guilt of thinking is just me, that I am not a good teacher. So far they can handle the phonograms, some of the rules, We have the SWR app. They are great readers! they have learned how to read with this program, now the spelling... my K is slow, my 2nd grader can spell great, I think is all the reading she does. back to the issue; grammar stage vs Orton methods. I would love to hear from both sides. and specially those that have noted something like what I say. I cannot go buy something different right now, so I have to make work what i have. How does that look for all you SWR/Spalding users? to mark or not to mark for grammar stage, that is one of my questions, k
  13. I just started Logic of English Essentials and FLL2 with my 1st grader. She is reading at around a 5th or 6th grade level and previously completed 18 months of WRTR. She is doing well with both programs. I am thinking of dropping FLL 2 to simplify things. (I have other little ones and I am not getting everything done). What level is the grammar in LOE compared to the FLL series? After we complete LOE (it may take longer than a year) where would she be on grammar? Should I wait a year to come back to FLL 2? I hope this makes sense. :-)
  14. I had one of those "slap self on forehead" moments yesterday, as DS7 (1st grader) as he claimed to have no clue when to use c, k, or ck, and wanted to spell pink as "pingk." (This was during a focused time working on spelling and not while writing sentences). While I am not worried at all about his spelling in one sense (it makes WAY more sense that DD's spelling did at the same age), on the other hand, it seems frustrating that he has forgotten these rules/concepts when we covered them last year using the Logic of English Foundations beta test lessons, and then covered them again this year (earlier in the year) using LoE Essentials. He has not retained as much as I had hoped from the last two years of LoE work. That being said, we did not fully implement Essentials this year. DS7 had the patience for 5-10 words per day, so it took us 2-3 days to get through each list, and was not very receptive to dictation sentences or even a real "spelling test" on the words for the week. We made it through lesson 26 before taking a bit of a break to focus on learning to write in cursive (at his request). In general, his writing abilities have increased, so I have no doubt he could handle 15 or more words dictated in a day starting now or in the fall. But when I mentioned that maybe we would just start back at the beginning of Essentials again next Fall to really master those rules and phonograms (he does pretty well with most of the phonograms, but has often known the sounds and not when to use them). And that idea of starting over was NOT met with a happy reaction from DS. So that leaves me not quite sure what to do. He clearly hasn't retained everything taught in Essentials, but I don't want to make him feel defeated that he has to "start over" in spelling, and I don't he is ready to just do the alternate/advanced lists either -- some of those words are pretty hard for a 2nd grader. Ideas?
  15. For those that have used LOE all the way through and have then gone back through the lessons with the advanced spelling lists...how did it go? Also............ Did you still do the lessons just as scripted or do something different? If so, please share your approach. What about the advanced phonogram set of cards? Where and how did you work these in? If you have yet to cycle back through, but plan on it, please share your plan. TIA
  16. I asked this question a while back and received some answers, but I am curious now that time has past if others have used this program with their dyslexic child? If so, how is it working for you and your child?
  17. I asked this question a while back and received some answers, but I am curious now that time has past if others have used this program with their dyslexic child? If so, how is it working for you and your child?
  18. Would you do parts E & F of Foundations with a second-grader, or skip them and start Essentials? DS will start B halfway through kindergarten--i.e., right after turning 6--doing 2 lessons a week (including the reviews). Then I'm thinking we can do C and D in 1st. Obviously I'm trying to think way ahead here... LoE is expensive and I don't want to buy more than I have to, yet I don't want to skip anything if it will be really useful to him to take it slowly. I know I don't have to make a decision before it's even published. He is currently on pages 68-69 of Phonics Pathways, reading four-letter short-vowel words but not enjoying it, if that helps. I am hoping to get him through to page 116 (-er, -ed, and -ing) by the time we switch to Foundations B. He will pretty much eat first-grade math for breakfast (we've been doing the Singapore extra practice book) but complains about reading three-word phrases. So I know some of y'all saw Foundations in Beta. What say you?
  19. So I have purchased Logic of English to use with my 2nd grader and 5th grader. Concerning my 2nd grader: I was thinking that I would skip the grammar portion of LOE, since we use FLL (we will do FLL2), but the grammar in LOE looks great. I do love FLL though and I think it would be overkill to do both. Could anyone give me some direction here about the two? Then I got to thinking that I could just use LOE for all LA, except writing we use WWE, and pick up FLL3 in third grade? Concerning my 5th grader: I was looking through the spelling lists in the LOE book and they seem quite easy until you get towards the end of the book. I'm torn b/w doing the lists in the book or the advanced lists on LOE's website? Can anyone tell me which spelling lists they use for their upper elementary child? DD is not the greatest of spellers but she did comment on how easy the beginning to middle words were when she looked through it. I don't want her to become bored with the program.....I thought I read on here that someone uses both lists. How do you incorporate both in a week? Do many of you do 2 lessons a week or 1? I don't see her moving fast through LOE, which I'm fine with. I want her phonics/spelling/reading solidified before middle school. I'm pretty sure we are not going to use the grammar portion with dd b/c we are going to start JAG....and move into AG for middle. Any advice or examples of schedules would be most helpful! Thank you!
  20. I own levels 1-6 of All About Spelling. This evening I was bored and started watching the Logic of English teacher training videos. Why did I do that? I guess I enjoy torturing myself.
  21. I am going to purchase LOE to use with my 5th grader and my 2nd grader. I need to know what I absolutely need so I don't overspend!! I do know I want to get the manuscript workbooks for both dc......how many sets of game cards? Basic phonograms (a must)....what about the advance phonograms? Spelling Game book.....Any help from those who use this program would be great! Thank you in advance! I want to try to not spend over $200(including shipping).....
  22. I really, really want to love LoE Essentials but I'm just not sure. I'm about done reading ULoE book and wished I had been taught the spelling rules and phonograms when I was in school to prevent me from being the mediocre speller that I am (though since having kids I've become a walking dictionary :confused1:). I've watched many of the videos Denise has on youtube and bought the Doodling Dragons book for my youngest but I just can't take the plunge and purchase Essentials. I have a dyslexic 3rd grader that has made a lot of process this year but is still struggling and at times frustrated. I really think teaching her the phonograms and spelling rules will be of great help. The fact is has grammar is a total bonus as reviewing that isn't going to hurt either. But my issue is after looking at the samples, it bugged me that the first phonogram and spelling rule was qu but only one word is the spelling list had qu in it! The second lesson was ck and only spelling 2 words had ck and there was no review of qu (the words quick, quack would have been perfect). Am I just being overly critical? Does somehow it just work and click? The sample is only of the first two lessons so maybe if I had a broader sample I'd feel more confident purchasing it. I really just want something open and go that we can just buckle down and get though most of it this summer. So somebody, anybody, please sell me on it. Thanks.
  23. One of my phonogram game cards is missing from a brand new pack, so I decided to check the other packs of flash cards I received with the Essentials complete set . Advanced Phonogram Flash Cards - In one place the website advertises 40 cards and another advertises 35. I have 35. Do any of you know how many are supposed to be in the set? Also, if anyone has the Grammar Flash Cards I could use some help with those too. My last card is 16.1 but the book has a couple more "rules" listed (16.2 and 16.3). I'm kinda bummed. I've never had to count and double check an order like this. The items arrived in excellent condition but I didn't expect to check/count the cards since they were shrink wrapped.
  24. Ok so I am having a horrible time deciding on phonics. Every time I find something I like, then there is something else. Ugh! Right now, my almost 6 DS is doing AAR1. We are on lesson 19 and it is going pretty well. He seems to like like it ok, he gets it pretty well, but isn't fluent yet. I like the scripted form but I do not like how long the lessons are. One lesson is almost always to long for DS, but it feels weird to stop in the middle. And then, going back to finish the lesson, it just feels awkward to me. I feel like we would both like a program where each lesson were shorter and could be easier to complete in one session. I already own 100EZ and do not like it at all. I also have OPGTR. I have considered switching to it after we finish AAR1, or maybe just switch now. Then I learned about LoE. I read Uncovering the Logic of English and loved it and the method. I bought LoE Essentials, which I will be using to help my 12 year old step-sister with reading and spelling. I don't think I would like to use it with DS because of the same reasons I dislike AAR ( long lessons, having to break them up). So do I want Foundations?! I like what I have seen looking at the samples. It seems like each lesson is short enough to complete in one session. I like the built in handwriting. I really like the method behind the program. A couple questions for those who are beta testing... If one were to go through all 4 levels of Foundations, would one then go through Essentials as well? At this point, DS can read sentences such as "That is a fat fish in the pan." He can do CVC words and at this moment knows the phonograms for "th" and "sh". If I were to stop right now, would I start with level A? Or would he be ready for level B? Should I stop being a curriculum hopping nut case and just switch to OPGTR and follow up with Essentials when we are finished?
  25. I am going to be buying The Logic of English soon to use with my DS in a year or two. But my stepsister is a very struggling reader and speller. She is 12 and headed into 7th grade next year and is in public school. We have talked about going through LoE this summer. If I did that, would she need the workbook? Or would it seem to childish? Also has anyone used this program with a 10-12 year old and how did it go? How fast did you move through the book? Could it been done in a summer? Thanks in advance!
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