Whenever it comes to our suspicions/instinct about the actual kid we have in front of us vs. a certain educational dogma, I always vote for the former! For my 8 year old, I let her type her stories because handwriting is too slow. Or I type them as she tells them because my handwriting is also too slow and MY hand gets tired. We do copywork, dictation, narration, too. ITA that children shouldn't be encouraged to write with invented spelling, but that doesn't mean not allowing them to write freely. The problems I've seen with invented spelling are that in a classroom situation, there are kids who are asking the teacher how to spell something, and she simply can't help everybody, so she says, "Just sound it out," which is not a bad thinking exercise but is profoundly dissatisfying in many cases. That's encouraging kids to invent sumthing, no wut I meen? But at home we can satisfy inquiries as well as peek over shoulders to know what we need to work on (on another day).

Seems like it, but as the article mentioned, the attention on students' social-emotional development seems to be at the root of many of these interventions. We want to give our children the techniques to be successful while skipping true struggle, discomfort, or even suffering-- those things that make us human and ultimately give our lives meaning. But let us not change our schools, or our parenting attitudes, or our lives so that our children are less comfortable. Let's just teach kids about their brains and then give them techniques to become more successful and productive. One thing that really bugs me is this: "Other [therapists] use meditation and mindfulness to refocus their charges on the hunt for a 4.0 and higher SAT scores." It's not just homework therapists. I've noticed that my nieces' and nephews' schools also seem to be using "mindfulness" as a technique to manipulate kids to behave the way our society expects them to, both in school and at home. This seems to be another way to exempt ourselves from critically examining ourselves, our expectations of children, and the environments we expect them to endure. We want to shelter them from the things we perceive as bad things that could happen-- but are our perceptions correct? Well, we don't know, because it's not our job to be mindful, thank goodness. We can outsource that.

I'm so sorry. On the positive side, it sounds like you and your husband are on the same team here. Can you gain some strength from that? Would it also help to consider that holding your daughter and allowing her to be as frustrated/sad/angry as she wants about not going back to school might help erase some of the past year's effects on her? She's got a lot to unload emotionally, and it's easier to scream and cry at your loving and caring mom than it is at the girls who have been nasty. In about twenty years, she might be mature enough to admit that she was actually profoundly relieved that you decided to remove her from school. I agree that a simple explanation is best, and then just acknowledging her feelings about it. "I talked to the grown-ups there, and they are having a hard time keeping all of the kids safe and healthy. I know you really want to go back, but Daddy and I are going to keep you home where we can take good care of you...I know it's disappointing for you...I hear this is not the choice you'd make...it's frustrating when we tell you you're not going to do something you want to do...." etc. This is not the time to remind her school was making her miserable and those weren't her true friends because it invites her to argue with you and negotiate (unless you have the rare child who will ponder and say suddenly, "You're right, mother, thank you so much for pointing that out. Now I see your wisdom, and I apologize for every doubting you."-- that would be nice).

This is one of those cases when it feels so good to have been wrong. I'm so glad your daughter is happy and getting to enjoy a new experience!

This is another example (like, for instance, the homeschooling laws in Virginia that allow you to avoid oversight-- as long as you file for religious exemption, but also the intense and fearful avoidance of discussing religion in some public schools) of the oddity of religious "freedom" in the U.S. The freedom to practice the religion of one's choice should not include the freedom to keep one's children ignorant about the fact that we live in a pluralistic society, or to deprive them of the basic skills that will help them interact with others, relate to others, and hold employment in this culture. I feel this strongly. This is a difficult conversation when it comes to regulating homeschooling. When it comes to regulating public and private schools, not so much.

Good point. I see little potential benefit to the Confused one. If you're confused, you ask a question, right? Reputation points are weird, although clearly accurate in this particular case. This forum thing isn't a competition, right? And it's not like we need to gamify something with so many intrinsic rewards built in. I need points for deciding to get offline and go unload the dishwasher and make a nice breakfast, or exercise, or call my mother.

I feel a little dense here (I'm asking about an obviously!), but why is it non-negotiable? Sounds to me like y'all totally need a break. We're ALL inefficient. But no substantial breaks since June? That sounds exhausting!

That quotation by Quintilian made me type out a two-paragraph long response and then delete it. But my main response is that I am a mother, not a teacher. And that is where I believe all discipline-- my self-discipline, my children's choice to follow me-- come from in my home. (While she wishes we could follow Quintilian's advice that "the more [a good teacher] admonishes, the less he will have to punish," I have found that the need for admonishment is a warning to me that my role modeling is diminished. Admonishment is no replacement, in a home, for being a respected and cherished guide and leader. (And I'm not sure it is in the classroom, either, unless his definition of admonishment is different from mine.) The second article concludes with an impassioned call to "enroll [parents] and their children in the fateful defense of Western Christian culture," going on to say, "We live in the cultural twilight of a great civilization in which a growing darkness is increasingly blinding us to the wonders of creation and the nature of who we are as beings created in the image of God. It is a battle that will require far more than a mere method." I am not a big fan of appeals to fear (especially those based upon the perceived superiority of a certain civilization, religion, or culture) and my children's education is not (for me) a battle. I am not responding to the Christianity in this article, but to this particular idea of Western Christian superiority and threats thereto, and classical education as its vehicle. So I feel that Sayers' aim "to teach men to learn for themselves" speaks to me more than the dogged defense of Western culture against a growing darkness. And it is the particular worldview espoused in this article that turns many people away from classical education, and I suspect it is not just those of us who aren't Christian.

Hmm. She likes BA. That's a really good sign. So she likes doing the actual problems and not just reading the books? Does she like doing any math games or apps that provide substantial bits of extra practice with no written work (or interaction with you!) required? If she has actually found a curriculum she enjoys, I'd do that (especially if her brother gets to use it as his main curriculum!) but come to some kind of agreement about extra practice. Sometimes I find it helpful, rather than thinking in terms of curricula, to actually take a glance, say, at the scope and sequence of a third grade math curriculum. (Or the Singapore Math TOC.) How much of what she's learning will require lots of practice and memorization? What is she already pretty solid on? (I don't think there's anything wrong with pulling out the manipulatives even if she uses BA. Knowing that is going to help you better understand a concept is a good skill! I have to admit I have some competition math problems that occasionally have me pulling out the manipulatives to understand more fully. And these are problems for first graders! But the first time you encounter a problem or concept, it can be extremely helpful to model it in different ways.)

You totally just gave me a way to make these more interesting for my kid who isn't clamoring for more thinking tasks.

No, but only because generally I would ask my 10 year old to take the 6 year old to the restroom. I have heart-pounding anxiety about stuff like that by the way. (I've also let kids that age and younger sit alone in places potentially more dangerous, like theaters and swimming pools. It's not because I'm cavalier. Just the opposite.)

I spent many years being your 8 year old. The thing that finally instilled some grit in me? Having kids of my own. I struggle to deal with their behavior in a calm, patient, loving, firm, self-respecting kind of way, and often fail, but then I get to dust myself off and try again the next moment! Grit! At last. (I don't actually say to my daughter, "Your challenge is math, and my challenge is you," though. Most days.)

This discussion is a fascinating and funny example of why I usually give my kids the bare bones, basic explanation of "adult" topics when they're little, and then just listen more than I talk, and try to answer whatever questions they have. Like, this particular issue is not complicated to my four year old. She understands gay and straight on her level because we are fortunate to know people who are in gay long-term relationships. If I didn't have those friends and neighbors IRL, I'd probably just use a Todd Parr or Robie Harris book. And if I accidentally tell a child that a person who actually experiences gay feelings but has chosen to live as a straight person, or who is bisexual but only has same-sex relationships, is the "wrong" thing, the world is not going to end. We can't be so paralyzed about saying the right thing that we just leave our kids in the dark, because chances are what they hear from their peers or the media is going to be even more misleading and confusing. (Or the explanation they make up: when I was a kid, for instance, I concluded that babies were made when people touched tongues.) It's also easy to introduce the terms in a simple way when you first talk about sex, because not all grown-ups have sex like that, and it's not the only way babies join families. Most of us fudge the details a little when we first talk about sex-- we are idealistic, maybe, saying things like "when a mommy and a daddy really love each other"-- and we don't think we're being deceptive, just age-appropriate. That's really the best way for kids to learn about sexuality, too, I think: in the context of love and security and acceptance.

Anybody else watching the interviews? I'm trying to jam in as many as I can, and would love recommendations (the opposite would be fine, too!) if any of you are more familiar with some of these authors/speakers. (Challenges here are ADHD/anxiety...my child in question is young so I am pretty unfamiliar with most of the interviewees and don't quite know where to begin, except with Lawrence Cohen, whom I love.) Thanks!

Well, there's Creative Problem Solving, but I'm not sure that's what you need here given the example...in truth, it sounds like this may just be a personality difference? I mean, you're not rescuing her, she is coming up with the solution, it sounds like you're not cripplingly critical of the things your kids do, so could this be a matter of self-confidence/insecurity? Or enjoying the dialogue and liking to check in with you? In any case, if you would like her to be more confident in coming up with ideas and evaluating them on her own, CPS provides a template and opportunities to practice together.

Yes! Where is the relaxed math thread? Why, I seem to have it bookmarked here. For our MM measurement unit I pulled out the baby books and we made marks on the wall to show how my 7 year old had grown from birth to age 3 or 4 (when we actually started marking the wall). I also assigned her to measure everyone's feet for new shoes. Calendars, we spend a lot of time counting weeks and days until birthdays and holidays. Does your son like any of the suggested MM games from the beginning of the chapters?

I just hope that libraran doesn't have grandkids. :rolleyes:

This is what we do. Plus we get stacks of books at different levels. Have you seen Layers of Learning? I think it's a good model for how to approach science and history with different levels and ages. I think it's best not to get overly obsessed with the history sequence, other than to make sure readings are age-appropriate for all levels. Linger or repeat/delve deeper into what your kids seem to enjoy the most.

But maybe it's just confusing to us? I mean, my kids plan to marry one another. Or me. We used to do all that silly playground stuff, only in a more heteronormative way.

Well, the actual lines are that the boy's dad "got an email a day after Logan's Eagle Scout project, to distribute care kits for newborns at a local hospital, was approved...National organization policy required that Logan 'MUST' complete merit badge requirements as written and that he should 'plan, develop and carry out' his project on his own." What are the BSA policies in place for accommodations? It didn't sound to me like the badges were awarded "just" for effort at all. It sounded like they used their knowledge of this young man to help him participate in line with his abilities. This strikes me as discrimination, plain and simple. Like it will somehow tarnish the meaning of being an Eagle Scout if this young man, who is already facing great challenges to participate with his peers, achieves the honor. Seriously, asking him to go back and complete all the merit badge requirements "as written" and challenging him because he received help in planning and developing the project? Edited for possible hyperbole.

Well, philosophically speaking, this is why I have a messy (and slightly discordant) house. I share it with people who have different views on what is beautiful and interesting. Beyond guests, I want my spouse and kids to feel welcome here. It's their home, too. I speak as someone whose mother used to follow behind her "playing" with her by picking up the toys and putting them back neatly. I imagine my perspective would be different had I grown up with hoarders. When I'm stressed about a mess, I don't necessarily think the problem is the mess.

Two more potential downsides: 1. It can be hard to be the new girl at the end of the year in fourth grade. 2. She is going to be spending most of her beautiful spring days cooped up in a classroom, so she is relinquishing part of the joy of homeschool-- spring field trips, picnics, outdoor time, nature hikes. One's freedom and one's time-- those moments one spends alive on this planet-- aren't really the kinds of thing you can show off on a tour, though. Nor the opportunity to build your relationship with a parent and bond with a parent when academic expectations are off your shoulders. What if you were to do the thought experiment where she imagines her perfect day (inspired by Rethinking School)? What if you were to offer to teach her any electives she wants this spring? It costs more, but this is what I consider summer camp to be for-- not school. Does she know what she'd be giving up?

Not a mess. Nope. Evidence: there is a whole box of what appear to be train tracks that have NOT been dumped out on the rug, then kicked to various places across the floor. Also, all the furniture appears to be in place rather than pushed together to create a "bouncy house." Where are the loose papers, half-drawn on, the markers and pencils kicked under furniture? Where are the heaps of books perched precariously? The Play-Doh tools? The abandoned game of "Don't Pick it Up!" Monopoly that has unfortunately been infiltrated by a stealthy toddler? We have lots of blankets piled up in our living room-- it's the coldest room of the house and the sedentary nature of couch-surfing tends to make us chilly. Now, I'm not saying I consider this room clean, or tidy. But it's not what I call a mess. I have higher standards for my messes, and my children know that, and live up to them, the little darlings.

Have you looked into dyscalculia? Not being able to recall immediately that 1 more than 4 is 5, at age 6 sounds like an issue that goes beyond not being able to memorize her facts. This is about understanding the concept of addition and knowing how to count up to 5, and putting those two things together. I'd cross-post on learning challenges. (And it has nothing to do with being smart or not!)

On p. 27 of the report, Comparing the Prison and Household Populations, it notes that, "A higher percentage of prison inmates than adults living in households had been diagnosed with a learning disability (17 percent versus 6 percent)." Of course, being the recipient of poor/misguided/outright racist reading instruction isn't a learning disability. It's a teaching disability.