CourtneySue
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Everything posted by CourtneySue
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I think preparing a child to be an excellent citizen is most certainly classical. I've been following the Circe thread and Andrew Kern mentioned this as part of a child's training. I'm paraphrasing, but he says that if part of your child's calling is to be a citizen then part of our job is to train our children in the wisdom of that calling, i.e. how to choose good leaders, etc. -
Which talk are you listening to? Is it possible that Burke has some good insights even if he was a "stinker"? I do remember Kern citing Burke, but I can't remember why. Sometimes he cites people he doesn't agree with to make a point (like Dewey and Nietzsche).
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This blog is kept by some of my good friends!! That's so cool that you found it.
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I can't believe how incredibly prophetic and true this is. And I've read Screwtape, too, but don't even remember it. I also want to thank you personally for your thoughts and wisdom about how to best approach this thing we call Classical Education. I have been thinking about your point about wrapping history around literature rather than the other way around from the beginning of this whole conversation. That was the first "a-ha" moment I had while following this thread (which I'm so glad I've done). It's dawned on me that the modern classical education movement has in large part been a response to the dismal history instruction that is going on in schools today, but that maybe they've gone to the other extreme of making everything about history. Maybe the point is that we need to let history be history and let literature be literature. Maybe it's even an abuse of a good or great book to read it purely for it's historical value or relevance. I'm starting to think that maybe this relates to what Kern is talking about in his talk on The Contemplation of Nature that this falls under the category of misunderstanding the nature of a thing. Everyone please read this: I emailed the Circe Institute telling them that they seriously need to consider setting up a forum (so we aren't stuck discussing these things in a single thread forever). They said that they are working on it and plan to have it up by the end of April. :hurray:
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Do you make your child put back the tile in AAS?
CourtneySue replied to Nart's topic in K-8 Curriculum Board
No, it's not something I really enforced. Maybe somebody else might know why this step is necessary. -
This is so good! Thank you.
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How does it look? I am seriously eyeing it on Amazon right now, but struggling with the price tag. There's a review by this person that almost has me convinced (it's after the cookbook): http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A2EPYMSUR3YP9I/ref=cm_cr_pr_auth_rev?ie=UTF8&sort_by=MostRecentReview
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I have really enjoyed reading everything you've had to say in this thread. I wish you kept a blog that I could follow.:)
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I know there's at least one question I've heard Kern mention that's worth asking: Should x have done y? Yes/no? Why? Should Edmund have followed the white witch? Should Goldilocks have gone in the bears' house? Should the bears have gone for a walk? Should Elephant be afraid of the grasshopper? The possibilities are endless. It allows the child to think about the decisions that are made and whether they are good or bad. I think that when a child starts thinking through these things that it's one way to begin to cultivate wisdom.
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I just want to add that I wish there was a whole forum for this discussion not a single thread. I can't express how much I'm getting out of everything that everyone has had to say on here.
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Andrew Kern-- thank you so much for what you had to say here. I plan on pondering these things, getting out a notebook, and seeing what comes from it. I'm curious what you mean when you say the classical curriculum has become over grown? Thank you so much for not providing a book list. I think book lists can be a great source of anxiety for us homeschoolers. I remember reading Charlotte Mason say that she was asked to put together a list of the 100 most important books for children to read and she refused. I think it shows humility and wisdom. I am curious to see what Kern's response to your questions are. I heard Taylor say the same thing, and then when I was listening to the current interview they have with him on the Circe blog he said something similar or at least int the same vein (http://circeinstitute.com/2012/03/podcast-3112-dr-james-taylor/). But this time he was just saying that it shows wisdom if someone realizes that they can't homeschool, in the same way that not everyone can be a plumber. At the same time, he did seem to imply that homeschooling definitely comes with advantages and often times it's enlightening for parents when they realize that they can do it. To your questions in the last paragraph, it seems that's why creating independence in children is key, but I've barely begun this homeschooling journey so I really don't speak from experience, only what I've read and what I've heard the veterans say.
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It's amazing what can be done in just three hours. I love the simplicity!
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I loved this story and I love your idea. I'd be interested to see what you come up with. I love that sort of out-of-the-box thinking. I think that's what makes this type of classical education so different. Honestly, it's more than a list of facts to memorize, and might qualify for what Kern would call "mimetic teaching." Awesome! I recently read this review on Amazon by a homeschooling mom talking about taking her kids through the act of learning to "read books better". You have to read it: http://www.amazon.com/review/R2JNNO3LZFNQ5C?_encoding=UTF8&ASIN=0689710682&cdPage=&ref_=cm_aya_cmt&newContentNum=1&cdMSG=addedToThread&newContentID=Mx1FM9HSTY0GYU3#CustomerDiscussionsNRPB
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This is the closest thing to sample pages I could find. I'm really intrigued by these too: http://www.greatbooksacademy.org/curriculum/good-books-program-literature-study-guides/ Justamouse: I am with you on beautiful books! I used to settle for the cheapest paperback I could find, but now, if I can, I try to find the most beautiful version I can find. This usually means scouring abebooks and ebay.
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Unfortunately, I think a lot of misconceptions about CM come from many of her own advocates. When I first heard about CM from a friend of mine several years ago, it sounded like unschooling with books thrown in and there really wasn't anything that sounded that unique to me. I now understand her quite differently. But honestly, it took putting down the books about her and reading her own words to understand what she meant. Here's an example: I had the exact same view of her narration prescription as you do--that what was supposed to happen was that I was supposed to read something to the child, he was to narrate it back to me and that was it. But this is what she actually says to do (this is my paraphrase, I will try to go find the actual chapter or article if you are interested): Step 1: Pre-read: before the chapter is read, especially if there are a lot of characters, write down any proper names, important dates, or vocabulary you think that your student doesn't know. Go over these before the chapter/book is read. That way you are not stopping to define words mid-sentence. Step 1a: If this is a book where you've already read previous chapters, the child is supposed to tell you what they remember from the last time it was read. Step 2: Read the chapter/book/passage, etc. Step 3: The child is then suppose to narrate back everything they remember and they can use the list you made before hand (especially proper names) to help them if they want (this is especially useful with things like history, Bible and Shakespeare, I think.) Step 4: You are then supposed to discuss the passage, and yes ask questions. The first time I did this was with our Bible story book and I cannot say enough good things about the results. We were doing the life of David and it was the first time my son truly fell in love with a biblical character. It does take a little work on my part, but I can usually do this, by scanning it a few minutes before we read. And this is especially helpful when reading Lamb's Shakespeare. Now doesn't that sound a lot better than just narrate and move on. I agree, if that was it, it would just seem so dull. Especially since one of the points of reading great literature is the great discussion that can and should follow.
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I know I've heard Andrew Kern say that Charlotte Mason should be read, and that she should be read slowly. I am not a full-blown Mason person, but I have read quite a bit of her because I have a lot of friends around me who are and I do think she does have some interesting ideas. I've learned to glean the good and leave the bad. I used to think that her phrase "a child is a person" was a little obvious until I read Oliver Twist and then I realized why, in her day, she had to say that. There is a context in which she was writing. In Andrew Kern's lecture on the Contemplation of Nature, he shows how most modern day educational systems go against a child's nature, which is another way of looking at it. The things I like from her are her ideas of using living books and high quality literature. I like her idea of "dwelling" with a book for a while and not rushing through it in order to move on to the next one (something you see reflected in programs out there like Ambleside)--and I think this seems to be something that people seem to be doing in this conversation, at least from what I can gather. I've used her "pre-reading" technique as well as her technique for teaching poetry with much success. I also like her idea of keeping lessons short in the early years. And exposing kids to great works of art and music--my kids love this! And I think her ideas on narration are awesome! That being said, I literally laughed out loud when I read her method for teaching spelling and reading. And I'm not sure I agree with her overarching philosophy either. A friend of mine, who has read all 6 volumes of her writings, told me that if you read one of her volumes it's is volume 6 because it is at that point that her philosophy is the most developed. This looks great!
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Please do! I have to admit that I did laugh when I read the book list after what "8FilltheHeart" said about Henty. Thank you so much for your insights. I do agree about Ambleside. I've been perusing charlottemasonhelp.com lately. It's basically modified Ambleside, but she has switched some of the books around to more age appropriate levels. I think there is some wisdom in that. Ambleside is great, but it does seem to begin some of the "great books" before dwelling on the "good books" a little longer. Something I'm starting to realize is important.
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Thank you so much for your response. I am currently finishing my first year of homeschooling and find myself wanting what you describe. Especially as I listen/read to people like Andrew Kern, James Taylor, Charlotte Mason, and others. Sometimes what people describe as Classical Education can have a "cold reason" feel to it (that's a term I've heard Kern use and it has stuck with me), and it's just not what I want. I really do appreciate the wisdom of the homeschool veterans out there like yourself. I'm curious what this looks like in practice. I'm currently finishing up BF Early American History, which honestly is not bad. I do think Rea Berg has excellent taste in children's lit and she does seem to build her programs around literature for the most part. That being said, I'm trying to figure out where to go from here. Any advice is welcome. Also, what's AGG? Thanks!
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Can you explain what you mean in both of these points? For #1 why? For #2--what do you mean by "wrapping literature around history" versus the other? Thanks! There is so much wisdom in what you are saying, I'm just trying to make sure I understand it.
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I love to listen to Andrew Kern too. He has deeply changed the way I think about education. I haven't listened to the Analytical Learning talk yet, but just today I was listening to his one on the Contemplation on Nature. I think it was one of the best lectures I've ever heard. It's free here (the James Taylor one is awesome, too): http://circeinstitute.com/free-audio/ I don't know if others have reached this conclusion, but I have started to find that Charlotte Mason and her ideas about education are very close to Kerns ideas. Even today as I was listening to his lecture on nature--I found myself thinking that this is what Mason meant when she wrote that "a child is a person". And I'm finding myself more and more drawn to the Charlotte Mason curricula out there like Ambleside Online and Charlottemasonhelp.com. I think they get it. Great thread! It's great to know that there are others out there that love this stuff as much as I do!
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Could I start Miquon Math in the middle?
CourtneySue replied to acrosier's topic in K-8 Curriculum Board
Yes, I think you can. I bought the "Red Book" for my son and he's never done the "Orange Book" because I knew after looking at the orange one that it was going to be way to easy for him. And we've had no trouble at all. I'm using the Orange Book with my 5yo. -
Thank you so much for the encouragement everyone! I don't know why these decisions seem like the end of the world sometimes:banghead:
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That's what I was afraid of! I think I was just so convinced that RightStart was *the* program, and I was feeling guilty for not loving it. I also have become frustrated when the book expects me to have manipulatives that didn't come in the package. And sometimes I wish it would provide manipulatives for things like 1s 10s 100s 1000s instead of using these weird paper versions. I really didn't mean to buy so many math curriculums. I had bought SM as extra practice for my son. And decided to buy the orange Miquon book for my 4yo who was begging to "do school." When my son saw us doing it, he asked if he could have a book like that too. Since it's not expensive, I got it for him, and he really loves it. He likes to try to figure out what he's supposed to do before I tell him. I can tell that it really makes him think. Anyway, thanks for the comments. Sometimes I just need to hear that everything really will be okay if I don't follow the plan I had two years ago that I thought was perfect. :chillpill:
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We are currently using RightStart B. I started supplementing Right Start with the SM workbook and the Miquon Red book this year because I felt like my DS needed extra practice that he was needing. I believe RightStart is a good program, the problem is that I really don't enjoy teaching it. My question is what would I be missing if I dropped it and just used SM and Miquon, both of which my children and I enjoy (and find challenging in their own ways)? One thing I do like about RightStart is the mental math games that they play at the beginning of each lesson. Do the SM HIGs have something like this? Thanks for any input!
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Would you allow your history-hating child to...
CourtneySue replied to AimeeM's topic in K-8 Curriculum Board
Yes. I heard a lecture by SWB in which she said that history should be one of the areas where you should have some "fun" and you should feel free to throw out all your plans if your child fines a person or event that really interests them. I'm pretty sure this is the lecture: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/store/great-books-history-as-literature-mp3.html You can always get the Famous Men Middle Ages, if that's a series she enjoys.
