[Penetrating Poetry Palaver: Lord Byron's "Prometheus"]

Don't be shy! Share your thoughts, questions, reflections........

 

Prometheus

 

TITAN! to whose immortal eyes

The sufferings of mortality,

Seen in their sad reality,

Were not as things that gods despise;

What was thy pity’s recompense?

A silent suffering, and intense;

The rock, the vulture, and the chain,

All that the proud can feel of pain,

The agony they do not show,

The suffocating sense of woe,

Which speaks but in its loneliness,

And then is jealous lest the sky

Should have a listener, nor will sigh

Until its voice is echoless.

 

Titan! to thee the strife was given

Between the suffering and the will,

Which torture where they cannot kill;

And the inexorable Heaven,

And the deaf tyranny of Fate,

The ruling principle of Hate,

Which for its pleasure doth create

The things it may annihilate,

Refus’d thee even the boon to die:

The wretched gift Eternity

Was thine–and thou hast borne it well.

All that the Thunderer wrung from thee

Was but the menace which flung back

On him the torments of thy rack;

The fate thou didst so well foresee,

But would not to appease him tell;

And in thy Silence was his Sentence,

And in his Soul a vain repentance,

And evil dread so ill dissembled,

That in his hand the lightnings trembled.

 

Thy Godlike crime was to be kind,

To render with thy precepts less

The sum of human wretchedness,

And strengthen Man with his own mind;

But baffled as thou wert from high,

Still in thy patient energy,

In the endurance, and repulse

Of thine impenetrable Spirit,

Which Earth and Heaven could not convulse,

A mighty lesson we inherit:

Thou art a symbol and a sign

To Mortals of their fate and force;

Like thee, Man is in part divine,

A troubled stream from a pure source;

And Man in portions can foresee

His own funereal destiny;

His wretchedness, and his resistance,

And his sad unallied existence:

To which his Spirit may oppose

Itself–and equal to all woes,

And a firm will, and a deep sense,

Which even in torture can descry

Its own concenter’d recompense,

Triumphant where it dares defy,

And making Death a Victory.

 

by: George Gordon (Lord) Byron (1788-1824)

[Would you like to participate in a penetrating poetry palaver?]

I think the fly and death were often thought of together in that time period. There was an American song sung during Emily's life,"Jimmy Crack Corn," where the Blue Tail Fly is responsible for the death of a slave's master.

 

 

 

Beezelbub is in Paradise Lost and Pilgrim's Progress, both of which Emily could have read.

 

King Lear, Shakespeare- "As flies to wanton boys are we to th' gods, They kill us for their sport."

 

Wow! My dad used to play Jimmie Crack Corn on his banjo, but I never knew the lyrics. Here they are from Wikipedia:

 

**********************

When I was young I us'd to wait

On the boss and hand him his plate;

And Pass down the bottle when he got dry,

And brush away the blue tail fly.

refrain (repeated each verse):

Jimmy crack corn and I don't care,

Jimmy crack corn and I don't care,

Jimmy crack corn and I don't care,

My master's gone away.

In the two verses that follow, the singer is told to protect his master's horse from the bite of the blue-tail fly:

An' when he ride in de afternoon,

I foiler wid a hickory broom;

De poney being berry shy,

When bitten by de blue tail fly.

One day he rode aroun' de farm,

De flies so numerous dey did swarm;

One chanced to bite 'im on the thigh.

De debble take dat blue tail fly.

The horse bucks and the master is killed. The slave then escapes culpability:

De pony run, he jump an' pitch,

An' tumble massa in de ditch;

He died, an' de jury wonder'd why;

De verdic was de blue tail fly.

The references to a "jury" and a "verdic[t]" imply that the slave was criminally charged: Some sources indicate this may have referred to a coroner's inquest or police investigation, but these "slang" terms were not used outside the context of a court proceeding at the time.

They buried him 'neath the sycamore tree

His epitaph there for to see

"Beneath this stone I'm forced to lie

The victim of a blue-tailed Fly."

In the 1930's (exact dates unavailable) radio series Pinto Pete in Arizona, the following verse is added.

Ol' massa's gone and I'll let him rest,

They say all things are for the best,

But I'll never forget 'til the day I die,

Ol' massa and that blue-tailed fly.

Jim crack corn, I don't care (x3)

Ol' massa's gone away

The modern chorus is as follows:

[Would you like to participate in a penetrating poetry palaver?]

More comments:

 

* the poem seems to draw contrasts between the levity of death and the normalcy of an annoying fly; between the stillness of death and life of the fly; between the greatness of human-ness and the baseness of a fly. Maybe she witnessed something like this? Maybe she was present at the death of someone dying and in the stillness and gravity and sorrow plaguing the room, there was the buzzing of a fly and the irony struck.

 

*I love how she uses the em dash to set off the contrasts, to show the back and forth between the two worlds, the verge of one and the other.

 

*lots of alliteration (blue, buzz, between)

 

Thanks for starting this HollyNNV -- I've missed your posts lately on the high school board.

Lisa

 

Hi Lisa. Haven't been posting as much on the high school board. Mostly lurking as I am graduating out my first and my second still has another year before high school. Kind of relaxing in the gap, especially now that dd is done auditioning. Thanks for missing my posts :)

 

I am glad you mentioned the dashes! I really didn't know that much about the em dash, so I looked it up on wikipedia and here is what I found:

 

"The em dash, m dash, m-rule, or "mutton" (—) often demarcates a break of thought or some similar interpolation stronger than the interpolation demarcated by parentheses, such as the following from Nicholson Baker's The Mezzanine:

 

At that age I once stabbed my best friend, Fred, with a pair of pinking shears in the base of the neck, enraged because he had been given the comprehensive sixty-four-crayon Crayola box—including the gold and silver crayons—and would not let me look closely at the box to see how Crayola had stabilized the built-in crayon sharpener under the tiers of crayons.

 

It is also used to indicate that a sentence is unfinished because the speaker has been interrupted. For example, the em dash is used in the following way in Joseph Heller's Catch-22:

He was Cain, Ulysses, the Flying Dutchman; he was Lot in Sodom, Deirdre of the Sorrows, Sweeney in the nightingales among trees. He was the miracle ingredient Z-147. He was—

"Crazy!" Clevinger interrupted, shrieking. "That's what you are! Crazy!"

"—immense. I'm a real, slam-bang, honest-to-goodness, three-fisted humdinger. I'm a bona fide supraman."

 

Similarly, it can be used instead of an ellipsis to indicate aposiopesis, the rhetorical device by which a sentence is stopped short not because of interruption but because the speaker is too emotional to continue, such as Darth Vader's line "I sense something; a presence I've not felt since—" in Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope.[23]"

***************************************

I am the most interested in the last way the dash can be used, to indicate aposiopesis. I had never heard of this. But, it is interesting to read the poem again with this in mind!

 

[Would you like to participate in a penetrating poetry palaver?]

I will add my thoughts to the previous poster's

 

I heard a Fly buzz (465)

by Emily Dickinson

 

I heard a Fly buzz – when I died –

The Stillness in the Room

Was like the Stillness in the Air –

Between the Heaves of Storm –

________________________________

The st... sound is repeated three times. The buzz of the fly?

_______________________________________________

 

The Eyes around – had wrung them dry –

And Breaths were gathering firm

For that last Onset – when the King

Be witnessed – in the Room –

____________________________

Breaths were gathering firm- people were holding their breath in anticipation of what was coming

The King- God? or Death? I suspect it is Death- Lord of the flies, Beezebulb

__________________________________________

 

I willed my Keepsakes – Signed away

What portions of me be

Assignable – and then it was

There interposed a Fly –

 

With Blue – uncertain stumbling Buzz –

Between the light – and me –

And then the Windows failed – and then

I could not see to see –

_________________________

Blue- blue bottle flies lay their eggs on dead carcasses

Windows- eyes are the windows of the soul

the light- life? heaven? God? Death has come between her and the light.

 

You could read this hissing all the 's' sounds. Emily was so morbid.

 

Other sounds that repeat- "b'" and "w"

 

 

Ooooh! I like everything you said. You definitely picked out all of the sounds that the poem emphasizes.

 

I wonder if Emily Dickinson knew about the blue bottle flies? I mean it seems just perfect that they lie eggs in dead carcasses. It is interesting that Emily describes the fly as uncertain and stumbling. Is that a comparison between the body/mind getting close to death, uncertain and stumbling? If so, is she comparing us to flies? Do we somehow reproduce in others' deaths?

 

I do not get the feeling that Emily thought death would be peaceful or a "final release." I agree that she seems rather morbid. I expect an entire book of her poetry might prove depressing.

[Would you like to participate in a penetrating poetry palaver?]

An interesting concise webpage that describes a little of Emily's own experience of death begins with this paragraph:

 

"THE SUBJECT OF DEATH, including her own death, occurs throughout Emily Dickinson’s poems and letters. Although some find the preoccupation morbid, hers was not an unusual mindset for a time and place where religious attention focused on being prepared to die and where people died of illness and accident more readily than they do today. Nor was it an unusual concern for a sensitive young woman who lived fifteen years of her youth next door to the town cemetery."

 

http://www.emilydickinsonmuseum.org/death

[Would you like to participate in a penetrating poetry palaver?]

My comments are between the stars:

 

 

I heard a Fly buzz – when I died –

The Stillness in the Room

Was like the Stillness in the Air –

Between the Heaves of Storm –

************************************

I notice that the word "stillness" is duplicated. The idea of stillness in the air between heaves of the storm reminds me of the eye of a hurricane. "Heaves" reminds me of throwing up or crying. Not sure if that would have been the case in Emily's day.

************************************

The Eyes around – had wrung them dry –

And Breaths were gathering firm

For that last Onset – when the King

Be witnessed – in the Room –

*************************************

So are we talking about the people that are in attendance at her death, here? Why were the eyes wrung dry? Does this mean that the person has been sick and everyone has already done their grieving? Why is the "King" going to be witnessed in the room? Does this just refer to the deceased going to heaven?

**************************************

I willed my Keepsakes – Signed away

What portions of me be

Assignable – and then it was

There interposed a Fly –

**************************************

This seems like the clearest of the stanzas to me. She is giving away her possessions.

*************************************

With Blue – uncertain stumbling Buzz –

Between the light – and me –

And then the Windows failed – and then

I could not see to see –

***********************************

What does "Blue" refer to? Why does the fly get between the light (eternity?) and the dying person? Why is the last thing she sees a fly? Does "see" mean anything more than just the aspect of sight?

[Would you like to participate in a penetrating poetry palaver?]

(Someone's been on thesaurus.com today!)

 

I was wondering if anyone out there would like to discuss poetry with me? I have always found poetry challenging to understand. When I am able to find meaning, I wonder if I have found everything or if I am missing some essential element. I enjoy the discussions on this board so much, and I would love to hear various opinions on works of poetry.

 

So....who might be interested? I was thinking we might try one poem a week. Does that sound good or should we start a poem on Sunday and another on Thursday (two a week)? I chose an Emily Dickinson to start.

 

Hope to hear thoughts on the discussion ideas and the Dickinson.

 

I heard a Fly buzz (465)

by Emily Dickinson

 

I heard a Fly buzz – when I died –

The Stillness in the Room

Was like the Stillness in the Air –

Between the Heaves of Storm –

 

The Eyes around – had wrung them dry –

And Breaths were gathering firm

For that last Onset – when the King

Be witnessed – in the Room –

 

I willed my Keepsakes – Signed away

What portions of me be

Assignable – and then it was

There interposed a Fly –

 

With Blue – uncertain stumbling Buzz –

Between the light – and me –

And then the Windows failed – and then

I could not see to see –

[summer camp announcements?]

My daughter is going to two harp summer camps. Both require auditions the first time you go, but she has been to both camps before. First she is going to Young Artists Harp Seminar in Georgia. This will be her 6th or 7th year. I've lost count. She will be a counselor assistant, which includes a nice scholarship. Next, she heads to Saratoga Springs, NY to attend the Saratoga Harp Colony. This will be her second year attending. Right after Saratoga, she heads directly to college-wah!!!

[Looking for a happy, feel good book...]

The Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society

 

Wonderful book!!

[Book a Week in 2013 - week fourteen]

Currently reading John Dies at the End by David Wong.

 

22. Candide by Voltaire- I enjoyed Candide because it was humorous (one great character is a woman with only one buttcheek), slightly challenging (rather than overwhelming) and short. The length seemed to be that of a novella. Candide is the story of a young man who has a series of misadventures that lead him to travel to several locations including Germany, Italy, South America, England and France. Throughout the story, Voltaire uses the story to engage in social commentary. Much of the commentary is immediately understandable, but some flew over my head. Voltaire uses the story to poke fun at some contemporary writers. I was not familiar with those authors. A longer study of the work would be interesting. While I was reading, I often felt the story had much in common with Gullivers Travels, The Princess Bride and (gasp) Monty Python. While I recommend Candide, I'd mention that there are a few adult themes.

 

21. The Fountainhead by Ayn Rand*****- I wrote a little about The Fountainhead last week. I was enjoying it. Well, I can state that I absolutely loved the book! It was thought-provoking on so many different levels. The characters were used to bring together the themes of the book, but this did not prove to make the characters any less interesting. Rand did use the characters to verbalize her philosophy. However, this did not bother me so much because I felt like I was less apt to misunderstand what Rand wanted to tell me. After finishing The Fountainhead, I know that I am definitely going to read Atlas Shrugged soon.

 

20. Spillover by Quammen

19. Lilith's Brood by Butler*****

18. Microbe Hunters by de Kruif

17. Cobra Event by Preston

16. The Demon in the Freezer by Preston

15. Major Pettigrew's Last Stand by Simonson

14. Moonseed by Baxter

13. Ark by Baxter

12. The Cassandra Project by McDevitt

11.The Passage by Cronin

10. The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks by Skloot*****

9. The Wool Omnibus by Howey

8. The Companions by Tepper

7. Flame of Sevenwaters by Marillier

6. Zoe's Tale by Scalzi

5.One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest by Kesey

4. Pandora's Star by Hamilton

3. The Naked God by Hamilton

2. Grass by Tepper

1. The Neutronium Alchemist by Hamilton

 

If I *****starred a book, I highly recommend it

If I don't star it, I thought it was pretty good.

If I give it a sad face, I don't like it at all.

[Book a Week in 2013 - week thirteen]

Concerning Addition by Toni Jordan --

 

 

 

I hope you'll enjoy it. Be warned that it does have some poignant parts.

 

Regards,

Kareni

 

 

I'll keep that in mind. I'm going to start it after John Dies at the End, which is laugh out loud funny!

Holly

[Book a Week in 2013 - week thirteen]

I just finished a book that I found very enjoyable.

Addition by Toni Jordan

 

 

 

Regards,

Kareni

 

 

Thanks for the book recommendation! I just downloaded the book. It sounds like a light fun read and boy, do I need something like that right now!

[What's with all the new red and pink avatars / profile pictures?]

 

 

You keep leaving out that states are expected to recognize and accept legal activities that occur in other states (Full Faith and Credit Clause), and that with the exception of gay marriage under DOMA, they do so without a problem.

 

I was asked what I wished to see. I am saying what I wish to see, not what is currently in existence.

[What's with all the new red and pink avatars / profile pictures?]

 

 

I'm asking you logically....feeling aside....how does it logistically work to not have all marriages considered valid in one country? How would it even work between countries? Right now the US recognizes marriages from other countries (at least most countries that I know of). Again, I was not married in the US. However, I'm an American citizen as is my dh. Should our marriage not be considered valid in any of the states because we got married in Europe?

 

Really. How would this work?

 

Logically, feeling aside, here is what I think. If I go to another country, I would not suggest that this other country validate the laws of my home country. For example, I'm sure there are many elements of Sharia law which I would find objectionable as a woman used to US laws. Therefore, I choose not to travel to those countries.I don't want to abide by their laws. I don't suggest that those countries change their laws for my benefit. Their people have decided and that is that.

 

I look at states rights in a similar way. Travel to the state, abide by their laws.

 

How would this really work? I don't have a crystal ball. I'm sure A former president is wishing he had one when he signed DOMA into law.

[What's with all the new red and pink avatars / profile pictures?]

 

 

So how would you feel if you vacationed somewhere in which your marriage was not valid? Really.

 

I was not married in the US. Does that mean my marriage is not valid here? It is just plain discrimination to pick and choose which marriages are valid and which are not.

 

 

I guess I am trying to keep my discussion related to laws and not my feelings. This is not because I don't clearly see this is a strongly felt issue. It is because I hope I can see the logical merits of each argument and I know that my feelings aren't helpful in that regard. That is just my POV.

[What's with all the new red and pink avatars / profile pictures?]

 

 

Hobbits are pretty conventional. They prefer staying at home and tending their own gardens for the most part. Your post made me think of them and smile. I have a strong feeling for that too.

 

But every once in awhile, I get a little Bilbo Baggins-y. And we need to travel.

 

The idea that the UNITED States of America would have 50 different laws for something as fundamental as one of my top personal identification labels strikes me as odd and factured.

 

But if you sat down with me and said, "Who are you?" in a coffee shop, I would likely say, somewhere in the beginning-ish of the conversation, "I'm married to Dr. X. Maybe you know him?"

 

I identify myself though him to some extent. He's my other half, my partner through this ramshackle life. :)

 

 

I like your post. I felt the hobbits might have been some sort of middle earth mockery, but now I see your intent. :)

 

We would have a nice coffee shop conversation. I doubt we would ever talk about state vs federal rights. We would probably discuss this darn knee injury and how I have not been out of the house cuz I haven't been ambulatory since last Friday. Is your husband an orthopod by any chance? ;)

 

[What's with all the new red and pink avatars / profile pictures?]

 

 

And I can see how someone who is pretty conventional and never wants to leave their home can think like that. Hobbits are good people too and they have no sense of adventure, for the most part. :laugh:

 

But DH and I enjoy traveling quite a lot. You're telling me you think it's a good idea that I road trip through the US and if I drive through Iowa, my marriage is cool but I could be considered legally single in Nebraska and WHOOPEE?!! So my kids would be legally considered legitimate here in Michigan but in Hawaii, they might be bastards?

 

That's a little kooky.

 

And in an economy like this one is, it's not as simple as, "Hey! I don't like Tennesse anymore. I'm selling my place and moving to Delaware." There are little things to consider like employment, home sales, extended family, etc.

 

I'm just stating my opinion. You are stating yours. Where did the hobbits come from? ;)

[What's with all the new red and pink avatars / profile pictures?]

 

 

That doesn't work for a couple of reasons.

 

1.) DOMA is a federal law which affects everyone, even in states where gay marriage is legal.

2.) What happens when someone is forced to move due to work? In any other case the marriage license from the issuing state would be accepted. Why should it be different for homosexuals?

 

I like your questions/comments I am still thinking about number 1. As to number 2 I'd just state that nobody can be forced to move to another state. If they choose to move, then they choose to abide by the laws of that state. That is the way it is now. The only exception to that I can think of is the military. I guess there would need to be a federal law for those in the military.

Thanks for the conversation,

[What's with all the new red and pink avatars / profile pictures?]

 

 

See I think this should be a federal issue.

 

What if one state decided that anyone who married in a protestant church will be recognized as married, but anyone else who was married in another type of church or by a JP is no longer married?

 

 

Yes, each state would have to decide how to deal with other state's unions. I'd prefer 50 different laws. Then I just live in the state that I agree with.

[What's with all the new red and pink avatars / profile pictures?]

I am not religious. Don't go to church. Here's my opinion in a nutshell. I think this should be an issue for each individual state to decide. The people in each state make the rule. Live in the state that has the rules you prefer.

[What's with all the new red and pink avatars / profile pictures?]

 

 

Could be. You seem to be in the minority in feeling that, though. Feel free to ignore me.

Or did you want to contribute something to the conversation?

 

 

You have some interesting things to say. I would prefer to read your posts rather than ignore you. But your argument is diluted when you add in "the other stuff." From reading what you have to say, it appears that you feel strongly about this topic. However, you are writing in such a way as to have the thread closed. Closing the thread will not allow you to communicate about this important issue. I wanted to point out that you are at odds with yourself.

[What's with all the new red and pink avatars / profile pictures?]

 

 

That is one of the most offensive, stupid, and insulting things I've read here in a long time.

 

 

 

Sure. It's between CONSENTING ADULTS. I'll wait while you look that up. You missed that part in all the hullabaloo.

No. It's not. Marriage isn't owned by the church. Any of them. And you're confused, sweetling, on the issue, anyway. No one is forcing RELIGIOUS entities to recognize any and every union. Churches are free to be bigoted of whatever they want. We want GOVERNMENT recognition of marriage. For everyone.

 

The rest of your post is too stupid to address.

 

 

Your anger seems to be clouding your ability to maintain civility.

[Book a Week in 2013 - week thirteen]

 

 

Yes! From the library! Some libraries offer this service. If you are a member, then you sign in through whatever their groups' name is, on the library website (several libraries in a region will join together to form one group/consortium/whatever). Choose your book, follow the prompts, which will include selecting your specific library and typing in your library card number. It will automatically take you to Amazon and the book will download to your Kindle. Pretty neat! Books are loaned out for two weeks and at the end of that time, the book will automatically disappear (no overdue fees)!

 

NO OVERDUE FEES???????? Maybe I can utilize the library again. My husband grumbles whenever I go there! LOL

[Book a Week in 2013 - week thirteen]

 

 

There's a specific list of lendable books, and you must borrow from your Kindle. If you do it from your computer to send to the Kindle, you'll get charged as though buying the book. Look below the price and you'll see the Prime logo and it says you can borrow for free.

 

Oh I see. Well since I read on an iPad, I guess I can't take advantage of that. However, I have some friends that have kindles, so I'll let them know. Thanks!

[Book a Week in 2013 - week thirteen]

 

 

Oh, I love The Importance of Being Earnest! Thanks for reminding me. Now I can download another treasure to my Kindle!

 

 

 

 

As far as I know, there are two ways. One is through your library, if they offer the service. The other is through Amazon itself. If you are a Prime member, then you can borrow one book a month on your Kindle.

Cool! I had no idea about Amazon!