(duplicated)

Just to add -- we are almost done using book one. Really great idea but we found it too repetitive; the story was meh and the writing in the story was downright awful at times. We are switching next week once it is done. If I had mord time, I would think about applying those same program features to a piece of good fiction. Maybe a short story by Stephen King? My boy would love that...

Haha, I always come to this forum for advice, but walk away cursing the sheer number of items I will then go off and research / buy. Thanks for the suggestions. I found a copy of Gallagher's "Write Like This" that is my bedtime reading. I really like this style. Will check out Jensen's also. 'Night, all!

Sorry, I wasn't clear earlier. Likely more "not for us" in terms of BW. I have The Writer's Jungle and didn't find it helpful at all. I felt it was quite vague and fluffy; more about inspiring students to write and helping them create healthy writing habits. The reviews I found for the classes indicated that the comments were more cheerleader-like as opposed to critical (in a positive way, of course). I think BW is a fantastic course and is probably right for many students, and I often circle back to it thinking maybe I should try it anyway. But my kids already love to write. I think my problem is a more practical one, ie how to help them grow from good writers to excellent writers. I find Boris Fishman's books brilliant in this way: very practical, fantastic assignments that have a focused purpose. RosemaryAndThyme's suggestion about Kelly Gallagher's books is really interesting. I am sampling them and am impressed; just wish I could find a ready-made program that employs this methodology.

Thanks for the comments. I will follow up on all of these. I had been looking into Brave Writer classes but was disappointed in the reviews. I'm thinking I might enroll them in a different online writing course in March. I will revisit the BW classes in the meantime; I know their sessions get full fast. It is helpful to know what to call the different methodologies, and sounds like we are definitely whole-to-parts people. Every time I ask my kids to "pre-write," they are done in 60 seconds and consider it a collossal waste of time. I don't entirely agree that it's a waste, but it really does slow them down, which seems like the wrong thing. Any one else have any whole-to-parts approaches for middle school writing? : )

Having a hard time here. We have tried many so different writing programs, and nothing seems *right*. My main issue is that these programs break writing down into such small chunks that my kids (who love to write) don't get enough actual writing each day. We are not really interested in brainstorming, outlining, filling out graphic organizers, dictation, etc. etc. etc. All these activities are great, but they really distract us from actually writing. (BTW, it's not to say that we don't employ these tools, but we already have enough resources that encourage them.) I do love the meatier portions of Fishman's Creative Writer (we are only in Level 1), where he identifies one element and instructs students to practice that element by writing 500 words. I am looking for something similar, but for essay / formal writing; something that requires a lot of writing... perhaps 500 words or more per assignment, then revisions after that. I am looking for something that requires students to write from within, ie communicate their own thoughts and opinions rather than summarize someone else's. I have started to wonder if perhaps I need to advance our programs (we are in 6th and 7th), but I see the same things in the higher-grade programs. Is it me? Am I just not "getting it?"

Following! Lots of new sites to check out. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Super helpful tips, OhElizabeth. Thank you. I am excited to look up Dixit, Liebrary and Punctuation Puzzlers. Just to clarify: Yes, 826 is the Eggers book. We do one workshop per week, on Fridays. I have decided to do something similar with the formal writing (ie 5-paragraph essay). Instead of trying to do pieces of this M-Th, I am going to hit this only on Tuesdays. (We use the Hake G&W book -- NOT the grammar workbook -- for help structuring this. We don't really do the exercises in this book, but rather look to it for guidance on structure and scope for our formal writing progression). So Tuesdays are only formal writing; Fridays are only creative writing. On M, We, Th, we will do: Grammar: 15 minutes per day, Fix It. Style/Word Play: 15-25 minutes per day, M W, Th. Killgallon. This is like a game for us; as you say, it is more like word play. Take 5: journaling, 15-20 minutes. (The Take 5 is not grammar, it is book of fun journal prompts; kinda like 5-minute Eggers prompts. We try to spend only 5-15 minutes on this, but when I ask my kids for one paragraph, I often get a page to a page and a half. That's why it takes so long, and I hesitate to stop them because I love that they enjoy it and I think it helps create strong voice. They are also stopping to think before they write, which is all part of the process. Sometimes, though, it actually is only 5 minutes.) So we'll have: One hour of formal writing per week One hour of creative writing per week Journaling three times per week Grammar three times per week Killgallon games/word play three times per week That seems do-able. It is so helpful to get feedback from you all. Thanks.

Thanks for the great suggestions. I will look further into looping. I have glanced at it, but it will require backing off of science. Honestly, I'm thinking I will do that somewhat. We all hate it; no sense making it worse by requiring every little thing. I'm sure one lab per week will be sufficient... Thanks for the input!

LOL, Slache. I would *love* to drop science! But I won't. If nothing else, it will teach them that "suffering is good for the soul," haha. And yes, it may look redundant on paper, but we don't really have grammar, writing and grammar, writing. We do have grammar (ie mechanics: parts of speech and punctuation) with Fix It. Then we have *enjoyable* writing -- writing, drawing and do graphic organizing -- in the daily journal. I keep this spinning because both my kids are really creative and love writing, and I want to encourage them to write every day and to enjoy writing. This accomplishes that, but does very little in terms of teaching them formal academic structure. So we do formal academic writing with the Hake book. We basically read through the lesson together, then pick our own topics (usually from our history class) and use that as our formal writing assignment. One assignment might be done in one day or it might take all week; it depends on what the Hake lesson is teaching. The Killgallon piece is more of a study of style than mechanical grammar. It introduces great (modern) writing and then shows how different authors use grammatical structures to achieve excellence. It does not cover mechanics (again: punctuation, etc.) which is what Fix It covers. At least that's how I see things. They are all equally important in my mind, but we always end up taking more time than we should.

Loves: SOTW: We are old for this series, but are using it to start the day and wake our brains. No pressure, no homework, no worries. Just a great platform for discovery and discussion; what a way to start the day. We also read Human Odyssey and Journey Through Time at times, and we like both of those as well. RSO Bio 2: We all hate science, but dare I say I love this program. Kids *like* it, which is a win in my book. It gets done (though it does take longer than it says it will...). Hakim Condensed US History, with K-12 study guides: Love both of these. Mostly well written and sometimes moves too slow for our tastes, but thorough and solid. IEW US History: Used sporadically with Hakim. Liking this because it's easy in terms of ready-made history assignments. We did not finish SWI-B (see below) but are using this anyway. Mosdos: My favorite. Unfortunately, literature usually takes the back burner to our core subjects, but this is by far my most favorite program. DuoLingo: Kids love it and it gets done. Can't say it's comprehensive, but it does get done daily, without complaint. Also liking Spanish is Fun and Spanish for Children, but we are not consistent enough with those yet. Fix It: The sentences / stories are only so-so in my opinion, but the method is fantastic and it is fun to do. Kids are learning from it, so full steam ahead. Killgallon: LOVE this / these. We combine Paragraphs and Grammar. It often feels like Mad Libs to us, but teaches style very well. I don't think of it as teaching grammar AT ALL, but rather as a stylistic tool. Hake Writing: We use the slim book for academic writing. Very straight-forward and no-nonsense. I hate flowery writing programs and this is definitely not that. Simple directions and explanations, though we generally pick different topics to write about. Take 5: Super fun -- and intelligent -- daily journal assignments. Best I've seen. 826: Fantastic. Super fun and wonderfully creative writing assignments. We LOVE all of these books. We do one a week for our creative writing workshop. Story of Science: Just wish there were more hours in the day. This often gets cut, but we love it whenever we get back to it (once a week if we are lucky). We only read and discuss this; we don't do any of the work. Math Mammoth: Mom loves this program but kids are lukewarm. But then again, they are lukewarm to math, so... Teaching Textbooks: Not my dream program, but for my geeky child, who adores computers and therefore tolerates any content that is presented by a computer, this is a nice fit. In Between: Cover Story: We had high hopes for this program, but we are just less than halfway through and I am disappointed with the amount of writing it actually asks the students to do. The content is fine and the idea is fantastic. But so much talking about writing and so little actual writing... Our house is divided; one child gave up and the other has stuck with it, but I think is about to throw in the towel. Hates: WWE/WWS: I just don't get it. We really, really, really tried to like this. I love the selections, but I disagree with the approach. I think students need to develop their own voice first, then apply that voice to the world. WWE/WWS seemed very mechanical, and while the selections were superb and even challenging, the repetitive assignments felt lackluster. Kids started not to like writing, which was a warning flag to me. It's not that it was too hard; it was just too formulaic. Word Roots: Mom loves this program but the kiddos HATED it. Oh well. Kids read so much we don't normally do vocab. IEW SWI-B: Just shoot me now. Program is fine, but it bored us to tears. Takes waaaaay too long to get going, and IMHO, misses the mark on exciting the kids to write. Mine love to write, so the problem is reining them in. We just didn't have the patience for this one. Holt Earth Science and Holt Life Science: Dry. Boring. Tears -- from all of us. We lasted only three weeks. So glad we switched to RSO; it is much more accessible and even practical. Beast Academy: Another miss for us. My kids don't like math and are always looking for the quickest way to be done. They were annoyed that I was trying to "sneak" math in with BA. They felt it made the whole process longer than it needed to be. #### PS, Kids are 11 and 12 / 6th and 7th

MosDos. It is wonderful.

Thanks for the comments. I may try alternating Killgallon and the journal as you say. I am experimenting this week with simply breaking up the LA units throughout the day instead of doing them back-to-back. I was kinda secretly hoping someone would say "just drop science," lol.

I'd like some feedback from the LA gurus about my approach. First, know that I am not really following a classical approach here. Next, my goals (for 6th- and 7th-grade students) are: 1. not to squash their love of writing (lol), 2. to encourage creativity and development of voice, as well as introduce some basic styling to their writing 3. to introduce and/or practice formal academic writing (essays, etc) 4. to practice grammar mechanics as necessary 5. to make the entire writing process (including edits, revisions) a habit With that in mind, here is what we are doing. My biggest questions are: Is this too much, and if it is, what / how should I cut? We have a hard time getting through all of it, and when you add in history, science, reading, math, Spanish, music nearly every day... well, it just seems to be too much. (Reminds me of my favorite Dostoevsky quote: "But there were thousands of most important things; and they all reduced me to the point of impotence.") So, any advice? (Also, as I look at it here on paper, it looks like it should work out just fine, but in practice, it somehow takes longer.) M, Tu, We, Th: Daily grammar. Using Fix It. I also have supplemental worksheets to practice concepts that seem unmastered. Takes 15-20 minutes. M, Tu, We, Th: Daily journal. Using Take 5 (love this) to encourage voice, flow, creativity. Also important: kids like it. Takes 15-25 minutes. M, Tu, We, Th: Daily style. Using pieces of Killgallon books, starting with sentences and moving to paragraphs. I see this as a way to develop style more than practice grammar. Takes 20-30 minutes. M, Tu, We, Th: Daily writing. Using Hake's Grammar & Writing (the smaller workbook, not the grammar one) to introduce and practice essays and other academic writing. I love the no-nonsense approach but we try to pick more interesting topics from across our curriculum. Takes 30-45 minutes. F: Creative Writing Workshop: Use a variety of things, but I really like 826. Only thing we do on Fridays for LA. Usually 90 minutes. We also talk about and practice the writing process as we do our writing assignments. The one thing I don't specifically have mapped out (and I know you classical types stress this) is a Summary / Outline / Note-Taking segment. I have WWTB, WWE/WWS, but we haven't been able to get through the above on a regular basis, so I'm reluctant to add something else. I think some of this happens organically as part of our academic writing, so for the moment, I'm okay with this on the back burner. That's my dilemma. Would appreciate advice from those of you who have worked through this kind of thing. Thanks!

Looking for magic beans and thought we might give Saxon a try for my math-hating 7th grader... I found the "Course 1," "Course 2" and "Course 3" work-texts online for free and my understanding is that they match up roughly to Saxon's older 7/6, 8/7, Algebra 1/2 series. Can anyone offer any other insight about the differences in these two programs, besides the fact that the Course books are newer (2012)? Thanks!!

Susan Wise Bauer, on 17 Aug 2012 - 04:55 AM, said: The more intuitive and natural your young writer is, the more they'll hate WWS. It is absolutely the wrong choice for a kid who loves writing. I call it my "Engineer's Guide to Writing." It was constructed with the non-intuitive, "I can't figure this out!" weeping writer in mind. *Those* were the kids who seemed to me to be totally unserved by existing writing programs. Alte Veste Academy, thank you for posting the above. Old topic but OMG -- Thank you so very much for this quote, and for liberating me from SWB as well. I just couldn't figure out what we were doing wrong with WWE3/WWS1; why it felt so tedious. My kids love to read and write, but get so very bored regurgitating summaries. And honestly, I prefer they practice crafting their opinions about topics and themes -- this is where voice and strong writing come from. I kept thinking I was missing something, the way the hive gushes about this series. I think my problem is simply that my kids are natural writers who like to explore their own thoughts rather than summarize. This quote made my day. : )

Thanks especially to Chrysalis Academy for that wonderful summary of write-to-learn ideas. I think I love you. * : )

I just received (from my homeschool charter school) the hardback Teacher's Edition for this course. I meant to order the Homeschool Parent Guide CD. Duh! I will be returning it and ordering the CD, but that is going to take forever -- at least about three weeks on Rainbow Resource. Is there anyone who has the homeschool CD, who might be willing to forward the lesson plans for the first three or four chapters? I have the Chapter Resource Guide, so I am all set with that. Thanks for reading my post!

Awesome. Love the Glencoe, CritterFixer. Love also that it's free! : ) Printed and ready to go!! Thanks.

Following. We have Fallacy Detective. It's not completely without merit, but we use it as a discussion guide rather than assigned reading, so I can help the kids interpret things in a different way. I think it's a great opportunity to show the importance of critical thinking... even when reading source material that teaches critical thinking.

I think I'll check out that Growing with Grammar book. Looks simple and straightforward. Clemota, I looked at Diagramming Sentences and the reviews weren't great. How did you find it? It also looks good, except if there are lots of errors...

Kinda liking the diagramming at Grammar Revolution. Now waiting for the free booklet to see more... Thanks!

All good. Nothing has reached out and grabbed me, though. (Maybe it's my bad attitude?!) Keep 'em coming, I appreciate the suggestions.

Looking for a short course or a workbook that focuses only on diagramming sentences. Any recommendations? I have found Drawing Sentences and Rex Barks, but the former is nearly 300 pages and the latter looks a bit outdated. I suppose it would do as a last resort, but I am hoping you all can point me to something better. Any suggestions? I don't want to spend more than a few weeks at most on diagramming. I personally think it's a waste of time but I still want to cover it in case it lights a bulb with the kiddos. TIA!!