I think I've definitely mishandled his shutdowns - I always try to get him to come out and respond again, when I might need to just back off and let him decompress. Like he's so overwhelmed by whatever is going on that he can't deal/function and needs time to process/reduce stimuli. We do allow him to color during church, but we also always try to talk him into his class. I need to just pack a bag with a snack or two, coloring stuff, and not even ask him to go to his class. When he reaches an overload point, I'll just take him to the hall and sit quietly with him. I already get enough looks and comments from people who wonder why I don't just force him into his class. I can sit in the hall with him to help him handle the environment better. Then as he learns to trust me, I can start teaching him coping skills.

Yes, that's the type of behavioral chart I am trying to keep and yes, I'm keeping most of the details after the fact. Fine motor is very good for his age - he's able to focus and work on fine motor tasks longer than I would expect for his age. Gross motor - right where he should be if not slightly ahead based on questions the ped. asked. Potty training - he is essentially potty trained, but does have accidents sometimes if he waits too long to go to the bathroom. He wears a pull-up at night and still pees in it nightly. He potty trained fully right about at his third birthday. Speech - he had an odd delay (he would vocalize with nasal sounds in the back of his throat and bring no sound forward). EI evaluated him, said it wasn't autism, claimed it might be selective mutism ... sat on my floor 2x a month rewarding him for simply opening his mouth for them even without sound, and shook their heads and said they had no idea what to do with him. I knew language was there, people could understand his grunting sounds as words even without sounds, he had that much inflection down! His receptive language skills were off the charts good from a really really scary young age. I got him into a private SLP who had special training (PROMPT) and she had him speaking in 2 weeks. He's now caught up to age-peers. Not sure he talks to others, though, I'm trying to think of a situation where he talks to someone outside of the family and other than grandparents, to know that others understand his speech...oh, he will still talk to the SLP when we go (we see the SLP for my almost 5 year old for a separate issue).

No, he can't tell me why. I get it, really I do! I just don't have the support from my husband for that. I had a long conversation with him last night, though, and got him to understand that even if he disagrees with me that the behavior is "not normal", that I need him to understand that I am not able to continue dealing with it the way it is. That I cannot keep living this way 24/7, because it really is! I get short breaks, but I need more breaks and I need more help and I need strategies to help reduce the behaviors because I cannot cope any longer. He finally started listening, and as I shared with him all of the ideas from here, and started breaking down the behaviors, he agreed to try several things. He's not willing to spend the money on full evaluations yet, but I at least have the groundwork laid so that if diet changes and sensory diet stuff doesn't work, I feel like I have the room to ask for that to get more answers and help. I think a huge help will be keeping a chart. I made an easy to fill out chart last night and I think documenting each fit will give my husband a glimpse into my day and help him see what's going on so that he knows it's not just me overreacting to mild behavior. Yesterday was a bad day with one meltdown after another. But my husband only saw a couple of the fits because he had a job to go to and had him one-on-one at the store in between church and the job and I was right - he was an angel at the store. I try to explain the in-between times but I think he might feel like it's being blown out of proportion. With documentation of what's going on, I'll have more data for the Dr., too, so that when we do get to the point where I can ask for full evaluations, she can see exactly what's going on and why I want the evals. I think a lot of this is people not willing to take my word for the intensity and frequency of behavior because of how sweet and nice he can be in between.

Fragile is a great way to describe it. Also, whoever said about egg shells is a great way to describe my life. I tiptoe around certain transitions and take the strange looks from other parents when I don't ask him to do certain things when I know he'll meltdown (like getting in the group picture after a field trip recently). His sleep is hard. He is able to fall asleep on his own but it's a struggle to get him into bed and to stay there. He has the option of sleeping in a bed in his sisters' room, in his bed in the boys room with his brother, or in our room in our bed, which is where he tends towards probably 80% of the time. I am trying to make bedtime feel safer for him - he has nightlight stars that shine on the ceiling, a light on in the hall, open door, frequent checks on him. He doesn't always stay in bed, I'd say a good 50% of the time he ends up back in our bed sometime overnight. He doesn't nap anymore during the day - we used to figure out a way to get him to sleep even if it meant laying down with him for as long as an hour until he fell asleep, but then he'd be up fighting bedtime until late. So he doesn't nap anymore. We have quiet time in the afternoon whenever possible, during the baby's nap. Sometimes this means books, other times it means quiet play on the floor. But it always means no loud/fast/busy play.

While I appreciated everything you said, this struck a chord - this is what the pediatrician said. And it makes me want to curl into a ball, hide in the corner behind a chair with a blanket over my head and never come out. I've been dealing with this behavior for AT LEAST a full year, if not longer. If it is supposed to get WORSE this year, I think it might very well drive me insane. :crying: :(

I love this suggestion - at the very least it will help me look at the behaviors more rationally and I won't feel so out of control anymore. If I can find a pattern, I won't be blindsided by the behavior anymore. I think I will be doing a gluten-free trial starting this week, too, and a chart like this will help me see whether the food trial helps. one-on-one he's usually better for longer. My eldest daughter has been through OT for sensory issues and we saw huge success (she was diagnosed with ADHD but the sensory work has basically solved that). We don't have the money to do it again, but maybe I can explore the sensory side of things from all I learned with her. It's pretty normal. He does pick other things to be stubborn about, but clothes is one of his big sticking points - he has to wear his train shirt and green underwear. There has to be a pretty big motivator to get him in something different (like getting to "go" somewhere... he likes going). Sometimes he wants the pants with pockets, sometimes he doesn't want the pants because they have pockets. Sometimes he is particular about the pants, but if given the option, he'd go without pants 24/7. Which sounds like a sensory thing, I realize as I type it. He's particular about his PJs too, but I always thought it was the patterns (he has a thing for the dinosaurs).

I am at my wits end with my 3 year old son. He throws massive fits daily. Bedtime is the only trigger I can count on, otherwise, I live my life waiting for the next thing to set him off. We have eliminated all tv because that seemed to increase the fits. I make sure to have snacks available all the time because hunger makes him uncontrollable. The pediatrician, although surprised at the intensity that I explained, blew me off and said it's extreme but still "normal" and that he'll out grow it by 4. She was surprised that I explained that the behaviors are far from new - in fact he's probably been demonstrating these extreme behaviors from the time he could crawl, starting with massive fights that required full body restraint to change a diaper, leading to breath-holding spells (which would actually be my chance to get the diaper changed because he would stop fighting just long enough). I've been told on the learning challenges board that it's a flag for autism, and he did have delayed speech (which has caught back up with the help of an amazing private SLP). The initial screening at age 2 did not bring up an autism flag. My husband is adamant that it's not autism because he doesn't have other "classic signs". He's Jekyll and Hyde. One minute the nicest sweetest thing ever created and the next he's either crying on the floor or shutting down. He's lately taken to more shutting down behaviors (head and eyes down, no response, will not obey, look at me, or respond in any way) If I try to push obedience, I get a fight and crying fit, so I tend to leave him alone to his behavior (which is what the pediatrician advised I do). But this means that I'm constantly trying to walk the line between fighting him and getting him to obey a simple command. Good days are care-free and responsibility free where he can play all day without any direction from me, so I keep our daily calendar as open as possible. For example, this morning before church he wouldn't let me put his pants on. I tricked him into them only to turn around and see him stripping them back off. He refused his shoes altogether. He refuses to go into his class at church... sits quietly with us in ours instead. Then, when he's hungry and tired of sitting through both the sermon and the first half of Sunday school, he starts to melt down and I remove him before he's disruptive. He sits in the hall unresponsive unless I try to pick him up to take him to his class, at which point he will scream and fight. So I let him sit. My husband got some crackers to feed him and asked him to help open the door, etc, finally got him out of the funk and able to respond again. By now it is time to go home. Now he and dad are at the store together and I guarantee he'll return with the report of having been an angel of obedience and helpfulness. I have been advised to try a gluten free diet because I have an intolerance to gluten so it's in the family and a possible trigger. But my husband does not agree that the behavior is abnormal. "Lots of parents have kids who melt down" "I see behaviors so much worse than this at my school" etc. (he teaches at an inner city school in an area that probably wouldn't be safe to walk alone after dark). So is it normal? Is this just what a "challenging" head-strong boy looks like? I feel helpless and weary from the battles.

So after a spin-off of my other thread on reading disabilities, I'm curious if those of you who have kids who are high functioning autistic, could recommended any books on how to manage the behavior? If the behavior my son is demonstrating is indicative of ASD, I'd think that standard "good parenting" techniques aren't going to be as effective. After a dozen or more meltdowns just this morning (is he tired? hungry? just got up on the wrong side of the bed today? Who knows, but I need a third cup of coffee...) I'm ready to learn some new strategies for dealing with the behavior. I shared on the other thread that my husband is against the whole idea, and he's citing the fact that the pediatrician thinks it's "within the realm of normal" (even as she seemed surprised at the intensity of the behaviors...), so I am going to have to do some researching and hard thinking to get him to agree even to an evaluation. Here is a quick summary of the behaviors we see, for those who haven't read the other thread: He's social, verbal, and has no difficulty making eye contact with us. BUT - he's newly 3, and has a Jekyll and Hyde personality - one minute he's the nicest, most polite child in the world, the next he's shut down, throwing a fit of one type or another. Fits in public (when dealing with anyone outside of immediate family) tend to be eyes and head down, no response. He'll also ignore us at home if he just doesn't want to do something he's asked to do. Fits at home tend to be whenever he wants something that I won't let him have/do. They're a bit on the extreme side, and he's unresponsive and nothing can break the fit until he decides it's over. Things that trigger an end to the fit are random and never the same - sometimes logic works, sometimes distraction works, sometimes nothing works and I have to put him in his room to cry until he's calm (but I do wonder what the neighbors think if they can hear him screaming "let me out!"). He's finicky about physical touch- sometimes craves love and hugs, other times tells me that "I don't have any hugs right now" Screen time makes the fits worse. I guess one other word to describe him would be particular. Just now I was getting him dressed to go outside and play and he refused to wear the pants I brought down because they had pockets. But he wore the pants with pockets yesterday, so I have no idea what the issue is. He has difficulty sleeping in his own bed, so he ends up in our bed a lot. The pediatrician says that it's an issue of maturation, but was surprised to hear that he's been throwing fits like this for over a year. (He grew into the fits, starting with breath-holding spells as a baby when I would change his diaper). He shows none of the "classic stereotipical symptoms" and I was told by early intervention that he was not autistic. (he had a speech issue that a private SLP was able to fix pretty quickly and he's now on par with his peers, verbally). So - any resources that I could utilize that might help if it is ASD? Even if it is not, having more strategies for dealing with the behavior would be helpful!!

Lol, I was unsatisfied with just about everything they did- from their evaluation to their SLP services to their ability to handle my concerns when I started pushing for real answers. I finally just had to cut ties with them altogether. It wasn't worth my time even if the service was free! I suppose that means I shouldn't trust a non-diagnosis from them anymore than I could trust their actual diagnosis. I will have to talk to some people and see what I can figure out, my husband is very against the idea that there is anything wrong with our son, and so I may have difficulty getting him to agree to an evaluation right now.

well, I've got a lot more than I bargained for in this conversation, huh? I should probably include the fact that when he was 2, he had a strange, non-verbal thing he did, which is how we found our current SLP. She had him talking within 2 weeks. It was like watching magic take place. Anyway, at his initial screening with infants and toddlers, they told me it wasn't autism. (A note of interest with their screening - they wanted him to nest several cups together, and tried several times to get him to do this, but he discovered that the cups had a small lips and he could build a tower with them, so he would just build the tower over and over again. They marked it down as unable to complete the task. I thought that was a bit ridiculous because he had discovered a completely different use for the nesting cups, but whatever.) When we ditched the state SLP and went private, I told her that someone had mentioned autism to me and she said that she also disagreed. Now - not saying that means he doesn't have it, just saying I was told twice that he doesn't, so that's why it wasn't on my radar. That said, I've also been told several times by different professionals that he's really smart, his receptive language was really high from really young. Anyway, what does a screening look like, and If I wanted to get him screened, who would I take him to? I suppose the benefit to knowing one way or another would be to understand what interventions would work best?

Lol, I've not read that poem, I need to find it - that's the best description I've seen yet of how my son acts! I don't know that his trigger is misunderstanding, but I can watch for that. It's almost more of an oppositional defiance issue. If we ask him to do something that he just doesn't want to do, he'll either shut down (eyes down, shoulders slumped, no response - this happens a lot in public when strangers talk to him or when people he knows ask him a question), or he'll throw a fit (this tends to happen when we require obedience.) It's not that he doesn't understand the commands, he'll just not want to comply. I may be showing my ignorance here, but I thought ASD was characterized by lack of social skills with peers? He's never showed any issues playing with anyone - in fact he's the one who preferred to play with people from a very young age. He'd play with adults when his attempts to play with other kids his age failed (who were not developmentally ready to play with - they were still in side by side play stage). He also has no problems with eye contact when he's "good". When he is in shut down mode he wont look at you, but it's like a silent fit (and I almost prefer the silent fits!) Also, this is the kid who would test what kinds of fits were the most effective from infancy - he would go through a phase of different types of "fit throwing" and after a few weeks or months, would move onto another type of fit. The most memorable being the breath holding fit - one time and I figured it out. After I knew what he was doing, I actually liked those fits because he would hold his breath, which took all his focus, so I could change his diaper quick, then by the time he turned blue and his automatic breathing reflex kicked in, we were finished changing him and I we could move on. There was another phase where I was always covered in bruises because he would kick and hit while I tried to change his diaper, and it felt like I was wrestling a kangaroo! Anyways, his current fit method is to shut down and not respond, or to lay on the floor, and scream and sob hysterically. We ignore the behavior most of the time, other times we will try to talk to him until we figure out a trigger that flips his switch, and then he's back to polite and wonderfully nice again! (And sometimes the trigger is stupid simple like "will you please let the dog inside?")

I agree with the frustration about SLP training vs. specialists in various areas. We have been through a couple of the run of the mill SLPs and the lady we see now is highly specialized and has many of the training's you mention here. I found her by running several rabbit trails and contacting her with very specific questions about the issues we needed addressed. In fact, I had learned so much about the issues we were facing that she asked me if I myself was an SLP because of how specific I was in my questions. This lady is amazing and her skill level is so far above the other SLPs I've worked with, it's been a true blessing for our family. The irony is that she doesn't advertise - she said the moms who need her, find her, and her schedule is full. She also has a huge network of professionals she works with and is one who does refer out all the time. I've been to several different specialists on her recommendation for things beyond the scope of her training with great success.

Screened for what, exactly? (Don't mean to be purposefully dense, I just want to know exactly what you see in his behavior) He is my Jekyll and Hyde child - much of the time he's an amazing, polite, sweet little boy who turns heads due to his manners. Then if something sets him off, he's inconsolable. I have to put him in his room and hold the door shut for a couple minutes to allow him to calm down. If we can find the "switch" for the fit, he flips almost dizzyingly back to sweet and nice and compliant, but the switch is always something different. I recently had a very in depth conversation with the pediatrician about his behavior (just a week ago), and she was surprised at the intensity of the behavior and the longevity (he's been this way for a long time, it's not new behavior). She didn't seem concerned about it, though, and said that by the time he's 4, he should have matured out of a lot of it and to just persevere through and remain consistent in discipline, not give in to his fits, etc. He's not showing signs of other developmental delays - his fine motor skills are ahead of his age, he's coordinated and solid with his gross motor skills, he has appropriate language for his age, he's completely potty trained without issue, etc.

He's 3, and we've been working on his behavior for a year. It's exhausting but we are doing all we can to teach appropriate behavior. We've just seen the fits increase after screen time, so we are avoiding it for now until he gains some maturity. With regards to Eliana, I remembered yesterday that I was trained in Orton gillingham something like 12 years ago so I went and dug out my materials and am trying to get back up to speed. I'm going to discuss more in depth testing with both the slp this week and with the Pediatrician the next time we are there. I feel like I'm at least heading in the right direction, and am not crazy to be concerned about what I'm seeing.

She watched that (and the other leap frog videos) probably a year ago - when my son napped we used to be able to watch shows like that but since he dropped his nap I can't turn on the tv much at all anymore because it makes him really irritable and he throws some crazy fits. So, I avoid the tv as much as possible now.

Thanks for the ideas! I also found my old copy of Orton Gillingham from 10 years ago when I taught... between your ideas and that manual I should be able to get something put together! I haven't had her eyes checked, that's a good thought too,

I have been receiving advice over in the Learning Challenges group, but I was hoping for maybe some more advice on specific programs that might not be as expensive? My second daughter turns 5 in April, and has been asking to learn to read off and on for the past year. Phonics instruction has not been sticking in her head and each thing I try just frustrates her more, even as I see a real desire to learn to read. Background: she has a diagnosed expressive speech delay and has been receiving private speech therapy for atypical speech patterns for the past year. The SLP is going to be doing language testing this week because her pronoun and verb usage have not improved even in highly structured environments with intensive work for the past year. She has difficulty with organizing thoughts and language and as a result, has some difficulty with answering questions. Academically - she's been working on math, her preferred subject, for the past year off and on as well, and still cannot count to 20 - it took her several months to be able to count to 10, and is now only good with up to about 14 despite many counting games etc. She is good with patterns and colors though. Working memory seems fine, she can follow directions fine, and her fine and gross motor skills are excellent. Informal neurological screenings by the pediatrician show she's quite smart, but we've not had any official testing done. So for example, she can write her name, but can only identify letters E, A, O, I and S. She can only tell me the sound that S makes. (her name is ELIANA, so most of the letters she can identify are in her name). Any good programs specifically for teaching beginning phonics skills that might be good for her?

Yeah, I realize that she's slightly under the age for the Barton screening - I was just kind of surprised when I randomly asked a few letters today - she was able to identiy E, I, O, S, and A and that's it. When asked what sounds any of them made, she got /s/ and that's it. I was looking for something, anything, that would give me anywhere close to a norm referenced idea of what she should know. I'm swinging kids in both directions, it seems, as my nearly 8 year old begged to do a "reading test too", so I pulled my QRI-3 book out and had her passing the 6th grade reading sample at an independent level with ease, fluency, expression, comprehension, and a full discussion after the fact about the topic she read. My husband even asked me tonight whether I was sure that it's not a personality thing. I don't know how much the personality thing can play into it, but I do know that she's wanting to learn and yet nothing is sticking, which is making even simple tasks difficult for her.

This is both validating and a little overwhelming! We haven't had a recent autism screening - it was part of the general screening she received that qualified her for speech services at age 2, with the county. At that time they were not concerned and diagnosed her with "expressive speech delay" only. Thank you for the suggestions and ideas, some of that we already do (and I have 4 kids, age almost 8, almost 5, 3 and 8 months). I'm going to have to reread your comments a few times to digest everything, but I wanted to say thanks for the in depth answer, it was very helpful!

Interesting that you bring that up - I've wondered about it myself, but the general sense of her personality is "spacey". She'll simply space out, much like a classic ADD (not hyperactive). But she doesn't seem to have trouble focusing, it's like she has trouble getting her thoughts put together in a way that helps her answer questions/learn etc. I'll ask the SLP about it.

My second daughter will turn 5 in April. She has an expressive speech delay and has been seeing a highly specialized private therapist for a year now, after having used the infants and toddlers county program for a couple years. She's made huge progress since switching to our private therapist. Our SLP is going to do an informal language assessment next week because we are seeing some "pink flags" as she calls them, that have us concerned about what else might be going on. She is bright, (pediatrician has commented on how smart she is when doing basic neurological screenings, but no official neurological evaluation) and she desperately wants to learn. She has been asking for over a year to do school with me and her older sister, and I've been working with her on basic K level math and letters/sounds off and on for a year now. But I'm starting to see some things that concern me: - she's very frustrated with even the simplest task, even if it's the first thing asked of her (so I know it's not fatigue) - it takes her a long time to answer simple questions, even non-academic, like, what did you eat for lunch today? (SLP says we are seeing narrative organization sequencing problems) - we are seeing language issues persist even in structured environments after many many months of work. (pronouns and verbs, sometimes word order in the sentence) - she can write her name and I have no concerns about her writing development, but she cannot identify more than 3-4 letters by name and can identify only a couple of letter sounds despite working on them off and on over the past year. - She failed the barton screening test. - she loves doing math, but still cannot count to 20. (my newly turned 3-year-old son can count better) The bottom line is that she's been asking to learn to read and to "do math", but when she sits down to learn something, any letters or numbers activities that I put together frustrates her and she doesn't want to do it anymore. I just want her to be able to learn what she wants to, but am unsure how to give her access to those skills. Not sure what I need to look at next, so I was hoping for some guidance from you guys. TIA!

Interesting, thanks! I'll have to think about whether I can add them in over the summer.

Do the levels of processing skills books coordinate with grade levels?

Yes, I understood that :) I plan on using it along side the current curriculum I'm using.

I ordered Primary Grade Challenge Math, I think it's exactly what I was looking for!