So, he gets speech 30 mins a week through the school. She is working with him on not saying Ships for chips and shicken instead of chicken....that sort of thing. He also has a goal about producing the th sound Right now, he'll say things like, "Birfday." I guess in her defense I should say that he has been in speech since he was 3 1/2, and he has made major progress. He was in something like the first percentile when we started, and he now has a standard score of 87, so he technically qualifies only because he's so old-just turned 11. We spent the first almost three years learning to say hard sounds like K. If we correct him at home, he will fix it, so I guess he can distinguish to a certain extent? I think part of the issue is we are doing the tutoring online via a Skype like thing. While he IS making progress, I think I may need to let that tutor go and find someone local. The problem has been finding someone local trained in Barton. I'll see if he can tell those sounds you mentioned apart. He can certainly tell the vowel sounds apart when he is reading-if he sees bed he says, "Bed," not, "Bad," and they don't sound alike...... The only testing we've had so far has been from the school psych and at the OT and VT places. I suspect he has NVLD, but we don't have a firm diagnosis. We are going for a consult at the autism place in June. I'm planning on a complete neuropsych testing in the fall. I would like to do it now, but my husband wants to wait until we finish VT. I know I am being impatient, and I'm probably not making great decisions as a result. Writing is really the only area he struggles in right now, but it is Such a profound struggle, and I already feel like we've waited too long.....Thanks again for all your thoughts. I will ask about an audiologist referral at his upcoming check up. He's always seemed to hear really well to me, but there is hearing loss in my husband's family (mostly with middle aged folks, though).

You guys, I'm just about to cry. After weeks and weeks of LIPs, he's made progress, but he hasn't passed. He can't distinguish between th/sh/ch-the same sounds he has trouble with in speech, and short a and short e. Is it possible one poor kid can have trouble with auditory and visual processing? What do I do?? Is there a way to tell if he would be more successful with a visual method? Is there something else? Ack!!

In our state school psych's don't diagnose anything apart from the qualifying areas, so on the IEP he has a specific learning disability in written language because of the gap between his verbal cognitive skills and his achievement test. Off the record, she told me she thinks NLD is probably on the right track. We do have an appointment with a developmental ped. to rule out or in ADHD or ASD. We've been waiting on seeing a neuropsych to confirm or rule out the NVLD until he finishes VT. I have no doubt there are a whole bunch of things contributing to his poor copying. I was just gobsmacked that someone thought it was good writing instruction, and I used to Be a public school teacher, so I tend to look at assignments with a sympathetic eye. That's an interesting point on the writing indicating rigid thinking. I've been thinking he doesn't have that because he is very happy-go-lucky day to day and doesn't have to stick to a routine. But, yes, he did not get the concept of blending his own thoughts with evidence from the text. Sometimes I also think he just goes with the first part of the direction he hears....

Hi, all, I didn't realize so many other wise thoughts had been shared. My son is about to turn 11. He is in 4th grade because we waited a year. The SLP is willing to assess pragmatics, but we have to schedule another meeting. Sighs..... I did find a private provider from the Social Thinking page, and I may investigate that. To top everything off, he brought home a piece of writing today that was so awful I was almost speechless. They're practicing for the big state test, and he is supposed to take information from a document and use it to support an opinion. He just copied down sentences, naturally! Unbelievably, someone graded this and noted that he had misspellings even though the words were in the text. 'Um...yeah....that would be the dysgraphia. So, basically, he's doing bad copying as his writing. I am seriously thinking about home schooling next year, but I just don't know ........He already has the social problems typical of NVLD. Will he ever make a friend if we do that? Anyway, thanks again-that's the current update! Oh, and LindaMood Bell charges more than 95.00 an hour out here! Makes my 45.00 an hour Barton tutor look like a bargain!

He's actually finishing LIPS right now but should move into Barton soon. He initially bombed the pre-test. The tutor feels like he's moving at a good pace now. Initially, it was verrrrrry slow. You're right-I should ask her! Insert face palm here-lol. I know the SLP can do the pragmatics, but I'm not sure she's allowed to so soon since we just had the eval.and it would be a new area. I seem to be the only one who thinks his lack of social acumen is a concern. Everyone else just seems to think he's shy. I hope vt helps! Among other things he does have a degree of face blindness. I'm sure it hasn't helped his social chops that he can't tell half the kids apart! Thanks again for your thoughts!

Hi, all, I think, for now, I've decided to stick with the Barton tutor. If it isn't, "Clicking," at the end of the summer, I can always look at something else. Quick question for those of you who have done Barton-How long did it take to get through the initial levels? I've read that spelling doesn't start to improve much until Level 3 or 4. I know the skills in 1 or 2 are important, but ti's hard not to feel like some of it is a waste of time since he does read well. I should add that Susan Barton very nicely answered an email of mine, and she feels confident that he has dyslexia in addition to the (probable) NVLD based on my description. She says kids with NVLD tend to love Barton because it is rule based, which makes sense. I have emailed the SLP at his school to see if we can do additional testing. I have also connected with a local network for families with kids with special needs, and based on a conversation I had, I think I'm going to quit waiting for the big hospital and find a neuropsychologist to do testing and rule out or in autism as well. We probably won't do that until the fall, because my hubby wants him to do the vision therapy first (He is convinced it is the magic answer......we'll see....) We were able to start OT, which he LOVES, and we're going to work on keyboarding and handwriting here at home. The big missing piece right now is social skills possibly language pragmatics. I think that may have to wait until fall.

Wow! Can I ask how long it started before you noticed changes? Our son is about five sessions in with his VT, and I'm anxiously waiting to notice some!

It sounds like auditory processing to me, but it could also be slow processing or slow processing combined with low working memory. If he is very bright verbally but takes longer to process directions and questions, and then has forgotten parts of them by the time they, "Sink in," that would definitely present as some frustration in the classroom. There are two books I have found super helpful-The Mislabeled Child by the Eides, which has lots of great info. on processing issues, and Bright Kids Who Can't Keep Up, which is all about processing problems and has lots of great strategies you could share with his teachers. If he is at grade level in his subjects, I'm not sure that getting a SpEd evaluation or placement would ultimately help much. I used to teach SpEd writing at the junior high level, and unfortunately, there is not a ton we do to help kids with executive functioning issues....probably a period of, "Study Skills," with accommodations in classes would be the best you would be offered.

So, the one part of his evaluation I can't find now is the speech part, but he has been going to speech for articulation since he was 3, so he did get a speech evaluation. He scored perfectly average on expressive and receptive. She did not test pragmatics because no one had mentioned concerns about his social skills (I initially just referred him for help with his writing). He has always had an above average vocabulary. He does still have an articulation problem, but that has gotten much better. I think our insurance would pay for a private speech evaluation. I don't think the school will do another one so soon. I guess my thought on speech and social skills at the moment is to wait until he's done with the vision therapy, just because I don't think I can add much more. The developmental ped. does assessments with a whole team. It's the largest children's hospital near us. Right now we're on the, "Triage," list. The nurses decide whether or not we get to go on the waiting list for an eval. I guess you can say we're waiting to wait! I could just go to a psychiatrist or psychologist instead.....I did find a psychologist who has some experience with NVLD, and that's who I've been planning on taking him to, but then my regular pediatrician thought we should have a medical doctor check for autism. Could the psych also diagnosis autism, or does it have to be an MD? I am a bit befuddled for sure! Thanks for all your thoughts. I do think I have some NVLDish tendencies, and my husband and his dad are a little gruff and short with people.....our older son is very social and has a whole gaggle of buddies, so I've always had concerns about #2. But then maybe it's really our first born who is the odd one out of all of us! :) Thanks again!

Thanks for more good thoughts. We are on a waiting list to see a developmental ped. to rule out autism spectrum. We are not wealthy by any means, but I'm willing to spend big bucks if I know something will work....I guess I sort of feel like the college fund will be for naught if we don't do something-kwim? Thanks again. I do appreciate it. My husband is convinced I'm making mountains out of mole hills, and I'm lacking in folks to bounce ideas off of.

Thanks for your wise insights. I'm planning on having him tested by a private neuropsych but my husband wants to wait until he completes vision therapy. He does have social issues, left sided awkwardness, and visual processing problems. In some ways he seems like he has autism, but he doesn't have the rigid thinking, or the narrow interests. He's very happy-go-lucky, actually. He does read well out loud-uses expression and everything. He is definitely relying heavily on context clues and his large vocabulary. He will skip small words, and he does reversals, and sometimes guesses a word that is similar in length/starts the same. On the other hand, he also reads grade level lists in isolation, though. What he has trouble with are nonsense words and names. He will be 11 in a few weeks. He is in 4th grade because we waited a year to start kindergarten. He does have an articulation delay, so I've thought perhaps what is going on is that his spelling errors are related to his speech errors. I wish I could explain how he can read a word like sequentially and turn around and spell stick wrong. It's baffling to me. He had phonics instruction, but I don't think it, "Took," because he is very shaky on vowel sounds, in particular. At the beginning of the year he was still slightly below grade level in reading, and then in one month he went up three levels. He's consistently been above on the STAR and the DAZE this year. He did get a lower score on a nonsense word test, so yeah....the phonics piece isn't there. He seems to have good comprehension; he does well on the AR tests and son on. He does tend to read books that are fairly immature, for lack of a better word-Magic TreeHouse, Big Nate, Wimpy Kid....so it might be that the comprehension hits a wall at some point. I guess the question is whether decoding/phonics instruction or a more visual kind of instruction is the best strategy for him. He is doing quite well with the online tutor. He likes to use the computer, and he gets to move the, "Tiles," virtually. I'd love to find him someone to work with in person, but as I'm sure I don't have to tell you there are lots of, "Tutors," around but not very many who have real training in something I know works (at least in theory)! Thanks for your thoughts. I really appreciate them.

Hi, Kind Friends, I'm looking for some opinions. As I posted previously, I suspect our younger son has NVLD based on a large discrepancy between his verbal and non verbal cognitive scores. He has only been tested by the school psych at this point, but he ticks off most of the boxes for an NVLD diagnosis, although he has some differences (he actually has very strong spatial skills, for example-he can put together anything). He is currently doing vision therapy, and it is going well. I am hoping to add OT to work on fine motor, gait issues, and overall core strength. He has gone one time, and although I was leery about doing too many therapies, he really loves it and sees it as playing. His biggest academic struggle is with writing-spelling, getting thoughts down, the physical process, grammar/mechanics....the whole thing, really. He has very poor phonemic awareness, but oddly enough, reads above grade level.If you just looked at his writing you would think Dyslexia/dysgraphia. He is currently doing online tutoring with a certified Barton tutor 2x a week. She is working with him on the LIPS program and is looking to move him to Barton. The initial plan was to start with Barton, but he bombed the pre-test. My question is what to do this summer......There is a LindaMood Bell center near us. It would cost somewhere around 15,000.00, though maybe less since he doesn't need reading. The director said they would almost certainly not do LIPS, since he is a fluent reader. My assumption is they would do Seeing Stars. She is confident they could help him even though he has visual weaknesses. Our tutor thinks Barton will be better considering his learning profile. I know he can use spellcheck at some point, but his spelling is SO poor that we have to do something. He is currently in public school. I may try homeschooling at some point, but I would still need support for his writing, because he and I are not a good mix when we work together on areas of struggle! So, in a nutshell: Barton or Seeing Stars for spelling? Should I continue mushing on with the tutor, or pay the big bucks and do LindaMood Bell? If you've had personal experiences with either, especially with a kiddo with NLD, I'd love to hear about them!

He said it would be 7 months of therapy, but we would probably see improvements after 3 or 4. I don't know if that's too much or not....It's once a week in office with home therapy. I'm sure I don't need to tell you that it is not going to be cheap! Good point on the Barton. So far we've just done a, "Getting to know you," phone call. I'll have to think about it. Naturally, I want to fix everything for him as fast as I can! Thank you for the thoughts!

Op here. Thank you all again for your thoughts. Just wanted to update that we saw the eye doctor today (COVD guy). I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it (no pun intended-lol), but our son is apparently seeing double much of the time. I swear to you I asked him time and again and he denied it. So, we are optimistic that vision therapy will help, and that this problem explains some of his scores. We have also found a tutor who is going to do Barton spelling with him via Skype (she is in another state). I'm hopeful that since it relies on learning rules rather than visualizing it will be helpful. I do have a call scheduled with a neuropsych as well, because I feel like I still need guidance as to next steps. My husband is convinced that the vision therapy is the answer and feels like we already have a miracle in the works. I'm not sure it explains everything (I'm naturally skeptical and fearful we're getting our hopes up because it's what we want to hear), but I'm feeling more hopeful. I have also found a really good fb group for parents of NVLD children; if any of you are looking I would recommend it as a resource. And we're going to try an after school group known for quirky kids. He is in Scouts now, but it has never been a great fit. I think that's all for now....I'll let you know when we have more updates. Open to other suggestions for sure!

One quick update-The psychologist called to update me on his math scores, and he did perfectly average-right about 100 on the nose-on every subtest. So, I'm more confused than ever, because everything I've read says kiddos with NVLD usually have a really hard time with math. The psych did say he seemed much more engaged and confident on this test, and she thought some of the very low scores he had might have reflected a lack of attention to the task. I guess he did a lot of erasing on the visual matching, which is a timed test. No idea why that happened..... She did also mention that she noticed he started at the bottom with some tasks, and then went back up to the top, so I will definitely be pursuing the vision therapy angle. I'll let you know what comes of that. Thanks again for all the wisdom and kind words.