Oh, duh. I obviously missed that connection in a big way. Off to read that thread... Thanks RootAnn. 😊 As stupid luck would have it, I have a painful family history with an *actual* religious cult as a youth and therefore have a strong, extremely negative reaction when I hear the term used. Sense of humor gets drowned out on this topic and gives way to a much stronger, panicked, drowning-in-quicksand emotion. There’s no sense of humor in that place - and no way I was going to make that connection myself. lol So sometimes I need a hard nudge for perspective - because my brain immediately leaps to a bad place. Thanks for that nudge. 😊 All’s good and I’m thrilled for DD to join the ranks of Plansrme’s type of “cult.†Phew 😅

Hmmm. 🤔 okay then? Wouldn’t have connected a kindhearted “welcome aboard†email to a religious cult... I’m going to choose to not look at her new department quite that way. 👠:)

It's honestly so nice to have some others understand the pain dd went through when the professor gave her the news. We're big believers in "What's meant to be..." but, still. OUCH! I'm laughing at your comment about getting music kids into college and it winding up cheaper!! That's how we felt when DD1-the-athlete went to college! I was like, "Wow! We don't have to pay for her travel anymore! Someone else does that!" and "We don't have to pay for her uniforms anymore! Someone else does that!!" "No more monthly fees!" Woot!! :hurray: And - too true about the music being more important than ever. Amen to that. DD has plans "other" than being a musician. She simply wants to continue focusing on her instrument because her other interests don't necessarily "need" a degree. So, she's hoping to blend them all into an entrepreneurial lifestyle throughout school and beyond. She considered music ed, but reallyreallyreallyreally doesn't want to have to learn other instruments (she plays a string, a woodwind, and brass instruments already... so I'm not sure why she's so inflexible about this. But there it is.)

This is so true!! It's pretty cute - she's received congratulatory notes from a couple of the professors already! lol They are *really* excited to have new blood joining their ranks! Hopefully the students will be as welcoming (she knows not-a-one at this point). :laugh

My kids are taking Apologia Chemistry through a local class. The only "intentions' for this was to give them a somewhat solid footing for AP Chem next year. Their teacher insists that the kids can take the CLEP after Apologia Chemistry (they're using the second-edition Apologia Chemistry book - not the newer one, and NOT the Advanced Chemistry book). This seems like nonsense to me, but I've ordered the prep materials anyway, so we can look it over and hopefully discover that he is correct! Has anyone's student(s) taken the CLEP after using Apologia Chemistry? Was it successful? (neither of them are considering a college major that will *require* Chemistry. They just have to take the 4-8 hours of any Lab Science, and if they pass a CLEP, that will work!) (annnd, if this is possible, I'm re-thinking ds's need to take AP Chem next year. Maybe he should do AP Physics instead? AAAAAHHHHH!)

PLEASE DON'T QUOTE. I might take this down later. :) Thank you! ♥ I'd posted a while back that dd1 wanted to change majors (she's at the end of her sophomore year now, and her school requires that she "Declares" a final major by the end of this semester). You guys gave some GREAT feedback for us to chew on and she decided it was too risky and would remain her original major, with a math minor. It ate at her. Kept her up at night. So. She made an appointment with her academic advisor (we'd made up a full four-year plan with everything spelled out). The academic advisor explained more about the mathematics department at this university (it's tiny) and dd found out that the math department basically schedules in classes based upon whoever "needs" whichever classes each semester. Those classes aren't even always entered into the "everything" course wizard database, because they just hand-enter in those classes for the students. (keeps the schedule from getting so cluttered, I'm sure, with math classes that only a handful of kids are going to take) She had a meeting with the mathematics department head, and he put her completely at ease. He explained that if a student needs a class, he will teach a class of one if it's necessary in order for the student's credit-hours to align properly. The classes are often 3-5 kids in the upper-levels of math ... which ... I cannot explain how good this is... is PERFECT for dd. She will absolutely excel in a situation like this. Same people, same professors, same classmates... it's perfect. She has anxiety approaching professors for help or questions when she's in a large class - but in a small class where she'll feel like she knows the prof? Easy peasy. They looked over her schedule. He told her which classes he's already teaching for the next 4 semesters (that aren't shown as "available" on the schedule) and they penciled in everything and she has zero shortages now! :hurray: He said if there's a particular class she's REALLY interested in, to let him know and he'll email the other students and see if they want to make another section for that particular class. She can also choose to do an Internship or Independent Study with any of the professors there. This school is heavy on the pre-med/health/environmental/biological sciences side of things. So it's not surprising how small the math department is. However, he gave her data regarding previous graduates (there are only 2 seniors in the program right now! :lol: ) and their results were solid (good jobs straight out of graduation and/or continuing education). So. She changed majors. :svengo: At the end of her sophomore year. She hasn't been this happy/relieved about her major-decision - EVER. She's always been on the fence about it, but just couldn't think "what else" she wanted to do. This. This is what she wants to do. She was looking toward the next two years with a bit of fear and loathing. Now - she's excited for the challenges ahead. She's also registering to be a Math tutor starting next semester. So I'm a VERY happy and proud mama. This is what we hope for - for the kids to take the reigns of their own lives and make big-life decisions. This kid wasn't ready for that when she was a senior in high school and needed a LOT of hand-holding. It's such a beautiful thing to see her fully coming into her own at 19. :) I'm SO glad she took it into her own hands and pursued the information. (and a little annoyed at the school for having such poor information for US to evaluate on our own... :glare: But she's learned a lesson there too! Never take "no" for an answer if it's something you care about. Go in and talk to the officials about it and get the "real story") Anyway. Just wanted to update, thank y'all for the great information, as always!

THANK YOU GUYS!!!! :grouphug: A bit more info: While dd hasn't traveled to universities to make official visits, she has met several professors when they have been here, locally, for master classes. Or at competitions. Or when she's been at a summer music festival/workshop and has had lessons and master classes with those individuals while there for weeks at a time. So, the visits will be brand-new, but she will be visiting *some* familiar faces and wants to take a lesson with those familiar faces 'in their own territory" so to speak. How do you ask how much they charge for a lesson? Do you just come out and ask while setting up the time for the lesson? Hi Professor so-and-so, I would like a private lesson with you when I'm there visiting the school... btw - how expensive is this gonna be? :lol: DS has had a couple of lessons with university professors and they haven't charged him anything (we didn't ask in advance... I just sent him in with $$ and when he asked at the end of the lesson, they waived him off...)

Interesting about being taken seriously. Definitely something to think about!! She was considering a BA, but we were warned that BAs are often not taken as seriously either. The music world is so snooty!! :rolleyes: (said by a non-musician!! :p )

Yes, we've "visited" some schools and have attended recitals, concerts, master classes that were open to the public... but she hasn't "officially" visited any yet (other than the nearby one, where she practically lives). There are maybe two within driving distance. The rest are a trek. THANK YOU!!

I've asked a similar question over a year ago, but am asking again for new information if anyone has it. Any words of wisdom for applying to music schools? Both stand-alone conservatories and those that are within a university? DDs Plan A is a performance degree. Possibly with a minor in business or computer science. Possibly with a double-major (she will have quite a few accumulated CLEP/AP credits by then, so at some schools, this might be a realistic possibility). All of these "possibilities" simply vary depending on which school we're talking about, and what will be, or won't be, possible there. She and I are both Type A Planners. The knowledge that she will not have any scholarship info in her hands until end-of-March or sometime in April is killing us slowly. She has a Plan B and a Plan C already mostly mapped out (finalized today!). It's the Plan A that's giving us the vapors. Any tips? (DD1 was a recruited athlete... so I keep defaulting to how the coaches handle recruits and have to smack myself into remembering that the music world is *quite* different!) Specific Questions: 1) Did your student sit-in on ANY classes at that school they applied to? IF so, did they sit in on a music class, or a gen ed class? 2) Did your student meet ANYONE (a student) within the program itself when they had their audition/interview? IF so, did they just "happen upon" this person, or did a professor set someone up to walk them around a bit? 3) Was your student able to watch any of the concerts, recitals, master classes happening at the time of their visit? IF so, did anyone interact with them at these events? 4) Did your student take a private lesson with a professor(s) at all of the schools they auditioned for previous to their scheduled audition? I imagine this is not normal, since the distance between programs is quite great. So, sometimes the audition is the FIRST time the student meets the professor? (and sometimes, I understand, the main professor isn't even always there for auditions, but instead, they video the auditions to watch later) 5) Was your student "cut off' during their audition? I keep reading that a student might be cut off once a professor has "heard enough to make a decision" and that this "has nothing to do with the likelihood of acceptance." But we've not yet met anyone who was cut off... so... how common IS this? (I know it probably varies wildly from instrument-to-instrument, but I'm still curious) Finding "her tribe" of people within this instrument is actually a huge concern of dds. The "type" of person who plays this instrument seems to be in 2 or 3 solid boxes. Some programs are definitely geared toward one of those particular boxes and if she can't interact with other students, she can't really tell what type of Box this program caters to... She has friends going through the process this year and NONE of them have sat-in on any classes at any of the schools they auditioned for! I would've thought that was "normal," but now we're doubting this! There are a couple within-driving-distance schools she's interested in, and I'm wondering if we should spend time over the next two months, or early fall visiting those and meeting the professors... or if she should just wait until application time? Showing interest is good, though, right? Argh. It's all too much. :cheers2:

My dd lost out on a major scholarship at an in-state university because her lack of interest was obvious. She bombed the interview for several reasons - but also because when they asked the "why do you love the idea of going here?" types of questions, she wasn't able to disguise the fact that she really didn't want to go there, but rather, was at the interview because her mama wanted to her have a safety. :lol: The scholarship went to someone with significantly less "credentials" than dd, but who was overjoyed to attend that university. When we got dds scholarship from that university, we just busted out laughing. It was sooooo piddly. So tiny. They really, really didn't get the feel that she wanted to be there. Oh dear, it was bad. lol DD2 may apply for this same scholarship at this same university, and it will be a 180-degree difference in interest because, for her, this school truly offers many of the things she is looking for (in her "Plan B" scenario... but they don't have to know that... :001_tt2: )

Very cool @JennW in SoCal! My surprise is that I'd thought the program was more focused on "academics," whereas my friend's dd's experience seems focused on the work-experience and the behind-the-scenes experiences - which seems to be in-line with JennW's son's experience. I'd honestly thought the program was: job-shadowing or interning some of the "desk jobs" or "career jobs" during the daytime hours with classes held in the evenings! I'm not sure where I got that idea... but that's what I imagined! So when friend told me her dd's job (lifeguarding) I was surprised - because that's just "a job" that any college kid could get ... if that makes sense? I know this girl's college major and just didn't see what lifeguarding has to do with it, so I was confused. I obviously misunderstood the purpose (dd will want to apply in either case!). @katilac I'll visit the disboards! I haven't been over there in a decade and never would've thought to check. Of *course* they have a forum for this! :lol: There's a forum for everything over there! lol

If so, how was their experience? A friend's daughter is currently doing this and I've been following along and asking questions. It's not anything like I'd imagined! DD2 will most likely want to apply eventually, and so I'm curious to see if others' experiences are similar to my friend's dd's experience. (She's having a GREAT time... it just wasn't what I was expecting it to be! So I'm wondering if there are variations or if I just originally imagined something vastly different from the actual experience)

nm - I think we stumbled upon just the thing tonight!

That is awesome!!! Congrats!!

You and your 3-yo son had a playdate with another mom and her two 3-year-olds at the home of a mom with a 9 (or 7?) year old son? I'm confused. Why would a mom with a 9 (or 7?) year old son invite three 3-year-olds over for a playdate?

our list is getting whittled down to a manageable level! DD2 (senior year) Derek Owens AP Calc AB Derek Owens Physics (planning to do this over the summer into fall) Blue Tent AP English Lit PAH AP Music Theory Spanish III there will be 2-3 more classes that she'll take in short "bursts" throughout the summer/year to take some CLEP exams DS1 (sophomore year) Derek Owens AP Calc AB PAH AP Chemistry Blue Tent Honors English II AP* Music Theory (private instruction - might take two years to cover the material... his teacher is planning that now) Spanish III US History (CLEP) US Government (CLEP)

Ha! Good questions! DD's highest level of "Official Math Taken" is indeed, Calc I. She could have taken Calc II this semester, but didn't (she regrets that choice now...) She's taken a couple additional math courses "for fun," but unfortunately, those do not apply toward the math major (a stats class and some abstract geometry something or another) However, she has "audited" a couple of upper-level math courses since arriving at the university. Not full-time audits, per se, but the professors allowed her to "sit in" during the lectures after she talked with them. A friend of hers was taking these classes over 2 semesters and having a miserable go at it. DD sat in on the lectures when she could and tutored the friend through his classes (as well as a couple she didn't sit in on - she'd read the text, notes, and videos and tried to sort out the process for herself as something "fun" to do). (with time she should have been spending on biology or anatomy... ahem... :001_rolleyes: ) That's where she was exposed to a theoretical something-or-another math class and another advanced math class (I cannot for the life of me remember which ones, though! It's all Greek to me!). That's where all this trouble started. :laugh: The professors are lecturing and dd is just drinking it all in. Some of her "classmates" were not so sponge-esque and were glazed, deer-in-headlights, while dd is like a kid in a candy store eating it up. :drool: She LOVED Algebra, loved Geometry, LOVED Calculus... but these?? She was like, "I didn't know math could BE like that!" :001_tt1: :lol: So that's when she started really questioning her major selection. ------ With all that said... we talked for a long time today and she's planning to stick with her current major and the math minor. It's just less risky with the little amount of time she has to play with. She has to FIRST talk to her athletic-academic advisor. THEN talk to the mathematics academic-advisor. THEN talk to the dean of the mathematics department for an approval... it's just too many steps & one tiny slip-up or miscommunication could cost her $$$$$. We can't afford a "bonus" semester at this school. After she's gotten her bachelor's - she could finish up a math degree at a university closer to home and then continue for a master's if she decides she'd prefer that to PT. It'll work out one way or another... I should have prepared her better - that's 100% on me. She's a kid who started reading books about theoretical physics, etc "for fun" and doing accurate work in Algebra books "for fun" when she was just an itty bitty thing. I didn't see her as "advanced" because she was just... herself. She was always sooooo far ahead of anyone else we knew that if felt like I was already pushing her! I just didn't see the rush because Calc I in high school seemed the be-all, end-all (especially because, at that time, we couldn't afford to outsource all that much). Live and learn... :/

I'm going to have her call her advisor and ask about this before her appointment. If this can happen - that certainly makes this less daunting!!!! DD will be thrilled!! The Curriculum Sheet for the major. Sort of like this: http://catalog.utk.edu/preview_program.php?catoid=22&poid=9212 OK. That's true. That's why she's excited at the prospect, while I look at that much math and get cold chills and start to panic. Very good point.

Yes. There are four classes that are in both sections (Advanced Calculus 1&2 or Abstract Algebra 1&2). Either pair are a "requirement." Two are available FE/WO and two are available FO/WE. They all require Calc III as a pre-req, iirc... so dd has to take Calc III before she can take either. Then those same four classes appear in the electives section along with other classes to choose from.

That IS good to hear. Maybe there's hope!

Another concern is math overload. The "Sample Curriculum" for a Math Major shows: Freshman year: 10 math credits Sophomore year: 10 math credits Junior year: 12 math credits Senior year: 12 math credits DDs would be: Junior year fall: 7 math credits (plus Physics I and Kinesiology, which won't be a walk in the park for her) (Calc II, Introductory Linear Algebra) Junior year spring: 10 math credits (Plus Physics II) (Calc III, Ordinary Differential Equations, Number Theory) Junior Year: 17 total math credits Senior year fall: 9 math credits (Abstract Algebra I, Probability and Statistics, Complex Variables) Senior year spring: 9 math credits (Abstract Algebra II, Linear Algebra II, Elementary Differential Geometry) Senior Year: 18 total math credits It's difficult for me to be able to be pragmatic about this kind of decision, because I am Sooooo not a math person. She's read the course descriptions and says that they all sound "like so much fun" and "so interesting." But will it be so when it's all she's doing? Because that sounds like a LOT to me. This is a kid who is whip-smart. But she really had no idea of what she wanted to do/be in college. She's good at all.the.things, and it made it incredibly difficult for her to make a decision. The GOAL of being a PT makes sense and the JOB itself will fit her perfectly. But, the major she's selected hasn't felt "quite right." And when she's taken the math classes she has taken... she's giddy. OF course, none of those will count toward the mathematics degree... lol But... I'd love to help her make this happen - but don't want her to wind up degree-less!!!

thank you!!

Help me walk through this logically. DD will be talking to her academic advisor as well... but her appointment is a few days away. DD would love to change her major to mathematics. She's currently in her fourth semester. Right now she is an Athletic Training Major with a Mathematics minor (will include Calc I, II, III and 2-3 other higher-math classes). We discussed this over the Christmas Break and that's when she added the math minor because we weren't sure making the "major" change was do-able. But as this semester has progressed, she's increasingly frustrated at herself for not making the switch sooner, so we are reevaluating the situation. She has to declare a Final major (and not change it) before the end of this semester, iirc. So: Some of the math classes are offered all the time - Fall and Winter. Some are only offered Even Fall or Odd Fall. Others are only Even Winter or Odd Winter. So, only one semester out of her four remaining semesters that some classes are even available to take. On *paper,* she would be 6 credits shy (in the major-electives section). This is due to the EF or OF situation and the fact that she only has 4 semesters to play around with. Question 1) A classmate told her she could possibly override this by talking with the head of the mathematics department. I would assume she would need that in writing. IS this a thing that can be done sometimes?? Question 2) Some of the classes are listed as EF (Even Year, Fall Semester). However, when I pull up the course wizard for Fall 2018, this course isn't listed. So I checked others - and sure enough, one of them is listed Odd Fall... but it isn't listed in the Fall 2017 schedule. What happens if a class she needs simply isn't offered? Is the student screwed or is the university required to offer some type of substitution? Their Mathematics data-sheet has a TON of Math Electives, but half of them are listed as "Unavailable." So it was shocking to me to go to the online wizard and find two more classes that are listed as available... but in reality... aren't. :glare: This is a health-sciences-heavy university - not a ton of math majors walking around. She and I have made a mock-up of what the next two semesters could look like for her to Major in Math and Minor in Athletic Training (her current major). She is also fitting in the requirements for Physical Therapy School (Chemistry, Calc, Biology, etc). Final goal is DPT school. However, she daydreams about having a job where she "gets to do math all day." It comes naturally to her and she's a weird kid (lol, said with much, much love. :laugh:♥) (Mathematics as a major was never. ever. on our list of options. I have NO idea why. No clue why neither of us considered it. She was planning on Engineering until she decided she wanted to be a Physical Therapist instead and work with kids or athletes (most of the engineering jobs she sat-in on were very isolated and she didn't care for that))