Why do I not stress about leaving food out on the stove? Because I don't believe that it's that risky to leave food out for a few hours in my clean kitchen with my food prepared safely with clean utensils. And, to spite my MIL who thinks that being a trained dietitian makes her the food-safety police despite the fact that she probably has the most disgusting kitchen I've ever set foot in.

A conversation like what? I don't really understand what kind of conversation you are having that you've described in the OP, because you've summed it up with "empathy is everything" yet I don't see that. "you need to empathize more" means exactly that. So according to the person you are conversing with, you aren't empathizing enough. So, either you aren't capable of more or you don't see them as worthy of more or you don't think there's any more empathy to be had. And the other person does. As to how would empathy help to untie that kind of knot - maybe it's not untie-able. Is there a moral component that empathy or emotions can highlight? How does logic help untie it? Sometimes the best you can do is agree to disagree.

Not disagreeing with you really. But objective points are not required to be without empathy (or emotion? I'm not sure which we're talking about really). So people can come to the same objective conclusion, one coming from an empathic or empathetic perspective and one coming from an apathetic perspective. Or maybe you would call it something else. An empathetic perspective is not void of reason. Whether or not this applies to your OP, I don't know. But being asked to empathize does not mean "I don't care about logic, it's about FEEEELINGS."

Sorry,I'm in my car and quote isn't working. Re: the abortion example. I think the way you laid it out is a very oversimplified way of looking at it that is really only useful for illustrating the hypothetical of an appeal to empathy. It isn't real. As an aside, it is really close to what I thought was real when I was very much what is known as pro-life. I'm still pro-life (and also pro-choice) but have a better understanding of the bigger picture.

Pam, YES! Exactly everything you wrote, my journey was the same as yours, including the layover at civil/religious separation. I don't know what you call it - moral coercion, empathy, shame... It was an important step in finding my way. And I detest the word shame, but I am ashamed of my prior position, which I think is appropriate. So... Not sure what to do with that.

I understand what you're saying. I just don't see this moral coercion as such an awful thing in a discussion. In this particular example, I actually know what people are feeling on both sides, because I've firmly held views on both sides in my life. I don't think that it's a matter of "real empathy" (which means that the other is "fake empathy"?) It's more believing one side is more deserving of empathy than the other. Is moral coercion useless in a discussion? I don't think so, but it probably depends on the people involved. Do people use moral coercion in discussion because "empathy is everything"? No, I don't think so. So I guess I'm unclear if this moral coercion is actually what the OP was talking about.

Sure. Like I said, I don't understand what this kind of conversation looks like because I've never seen it. Lots of the responses are talking about "super feelers" which is something completely different than what you're describing, so I'm clueless. I do see the difference between actual empathy and moral coercion but I guess I'm not sure how that becomes such a huge negative that no discussion is possible because "empathy is everything".

Hmmm. Well, given what you've shared in this thread, it seems like they were expecting empathy. It does no one any favors to act as though reason is enough. Humans aren't robots. Empathy can do a lot to improve understanding and finding common ground in discussion. Reason/logic isn't everything.

Just jumping off from here. FYI, Goodwill is not a "charity shop" (again, I'm not saying that you are calling it that, kiwik). They are a non-profit but their mission is not to provide low-cost used items to people in need. They run their stores to make money to fund their services which "put people to work". Each Goodwill region will do this in different ways and through different projects. They don't care if people buy from them and resell on eBay for a profit.

I am a coffee lover, but I'm not a coffee snob so take this FWIW. I think that if your goal is to save money, you shouldn't need to buy any more equipment. That seems a little nonsensical to me. Find a coffee that you like, already ground. Make it in the Aeropress. Get it ready the night before (unless you have extreme type of weather, which you might in FL). In the morning, heat the water in the microwave. It only brews for a minute, so take that minute to get your cup and any add-ins (milk, cream, etc). FYI, I sometimes use a French Press but most often I use https://www.target.com/p/bella-single-scoop-coffee-maker-black/-/A-50983967#lnk=sametab. It has a reusable filter so is easy to clean and makes really good coffee IMO. I buy Lavazza or Bustelo coffee from Aldi. And I always keep a good instant on hand so there are no coffee emergencies. I NEVER drink my coffee black, though, so YMMV.

I have found most of this discussion puzzling because I don't really understand what kind of discussion this is about. I've never heard anyone say or hint that empathy is everything to the degree that the OP seems to be about. I think. It's unclear to me what that even means. But, I will say, that I think it's entirely unproductive to posit empathy as a contrast to logic, or vice versa. It seems like maybe it's a combination of differences is personality, speaking/writing style, vocabulary, etc. and not really empathy vs logic. That seems like a lazy way of saying I'm right and they're wrong. It's important to realize that while empathy, and empathetic language, may mean nothing to you, it may mean quite a lot to someone else, and that doesn't make them illogical. I don't know what a super-feeler is. Is that the same as an empath?

I like it to be clear, but "clean" as you describe it isn't something I go for. I have been known to get rid of the weeds there if I'm doing my own driveway, but I wouldn't do it just for the gutter. I do, however, care very much about people clearing out their own street gutter in the winter when snow piles up there and then the temps rise and everything starts melting. If you don't clear the snow before temps drop again, someone will have a nasty patch of ice right by their driveway. That bugs me.

Keep in mind that stores like Goodwill are not the same everywhere. They are divided into independently-run regions so the quality, pricing, and procedures vary quite a bit.

LOVE.

I think she's saying that how your daughter dresses is fine but she might not be able to play the games. But her grammar is atrocious.

This was posted mere hours after the school shooting. Not one mention of it being "too soon". It's frightening the level of gun-worship in this country.

This. Without sharing too much. Despite the fact that I hated school because of bullying, teasing, not fitting in, etc. Despite the fact that educationally, I would have done better being homeschooled. Attending public school was an improvement in my life and as an adult I can look back and be grateful that I had that respite from home.

I didn't actually skip any. He's at worst impolite and selfish. More likely bumbling and awkward. She's leading him on and naive, stupid, an idiot, can't take care of herself, needs supervision, extra guardianship, can't handle herself in normal public interaction, weak, confusing, etc

Certainly not the ONLY thing, but it's certainly there.\ Almost ZERO discussion about the man's behavior and nobody suggesting that he needs supervision because of his behavior.

I don't remember which shows were on when - after school or prime time - but I seem to be older than most of you LOL. The Courtship of Eddie's Father Facts of Life Silver Spoons Benson Mr Rodgers Electric Company (LOVED this show but I wasn't allowed to watch it because black people) Punky Brewster Webster Mr Belvidere Alf My Two Dads The Wonder Years Oh - forgot about Degrassi ETA again: I never realized that this was a real thing - Gigglesnort Hotel - my older sister uses this as a reference all the time.

Yes, you are largely missing although you might be understanding me in your Edit. This sexual encounter is not what stripped her of her empowerment, but it illustrates that it had already been done. As to the questions in your edit, that would be a whole other thread entirely and we've actually had several here already. I don't have the time to do it justice right now, but the threads are there if you look for them.

How do you know if/when she became afraid? AFAIK people have mentioned that as a common occurrence, not that it necessarily applied here. So, say it does apply - does she have to be afraid from the get-go in public? So, she can't have been comfortable there, then become afraid later? What about sex? If she goes to his apartment, it means she wants to have sex? If she's naked, it means she for sure wants to have sex? If she's making-out, she for sure wants to have sex? If she has oral sex, she wants all other kinds of sex as well? Only the first one was "normal public interactions" and we don't know that she at that point felt afraid at all.

*I*'m not stripping her of any agency. I'm acknowledging that our culture has already done so and would like it to be changed.

Thinly-veiled ad hominem remarks and patronization don't happen in America 2018. But I'm happy to re-phrase. There is no similarity of meanings between the 2 phrases that you are comparing. "Boys will be boys" is a way of excusing their behavior and doing nothing to change it. That's what it means. Do you disagree that that's what it means? "she couldn't help herself because internalized misogyny" - which isn't actually what anyone except you has said and is actually a very disingenuous way to represent what people have been saying - is an attempt to explain the immediate questioning of her behavior and blame placed on her shoulders. It's a call to change the culture that strips her of her empowerment. That is exactly what several people have been explaining. Do you understand this? The 2 phrases are not similar in any way.

I cannot clip your quote on my phone. To your last point. One is used as an excuse to do nothing, the other is a call to change our culture for the better. If you miss that then you are missing the point.