I think Reading Detective and Vocabulary Workshop would be great for the next two dc I have in line. How did you use these? One lesson a week? A certain number of minutes per day? My oldest did not take any tests at all (even at home) until taking the Stanford at the end of 8th grade. He did really well so I thought we were all good. Then he took the PSAT 8/9 in spring of 9th grade and the results were not good. He brought his score up 200 points on the PSAT 10 in 10th grade without doing anything extra, and *may* have gone up another 100 points after our work this summer. Going up another 100 would make it highly likely he could get some tuition money. But he still might get a little help with the scores he has now. I do feel the lack of early test-taking experience may have hurt this particular child because he has such an issue with speed. I thought more practice and exposure would naturally increase his speed, but that hasn’t happened. On one of the practice tests, I said, just go a little faster than makes you feel comfortable, and the results were awful. On another test, I suggested skipping certain types of problems so he can get to more of the ones on the end that he typically gets right. Again, disaster. Any type of strategy other than his slow, methodical way did not work out. Once, I analyzed his movements. He takes a long time to turn the page and a long time to fill in the bubble once he’s decided on an answer. I said, “Don’t pause like that, just fill it in and flip the page.†He said he was still thinking, lol. He really is kind of a slow thinker. I think speeding up causes anxiety and poor results. I messaged Jean Burke of College Prep Genius and techniques to improve speed are part of that program. If he wants to take it again, I’ll encourage him to do her online course. ETA: Our practice sessions were in no way drill sergeant type sessions. We would either study in my room after he got off work (his sister sat in on these so they were really goofy together). Or, we went to the library on a Saturday morning followed by lunch with just the 2 of us. It was fun for both of us since he does so much of his work independently now.

Thanks for sharing this. I’ve heard others say this, and it makes me think that maybe he should try again next year. I have seen some growth in his schoolwork and maturity this year. I’ll just discuss it with him this summer and see what he wants to do.

I agree that there are some good options out there, especially where we live. This child planning to do about 3 DE courses per semester next year. We’ll see how he does there and see if he gets any merit help with tuition before we decide whether or not to move forward with a 4-year school or start at a CC.

I agree with you, and since this child did test prep without much improvement, I think he may have reached his maximum score. He didn’t seem stressed by the work we did, but it just didn’t seem fruitful. He can answer most of the questions correctly, but he simply can’t work quickly enough to finish the test. Repeated practice testing did not help at all. He kind of works slowly in general. I’m not going to mention the test at all for now. I know he did his best, and I don’t want to pressure him. At the end of the school year, I’ll ask him if he wants to do a real prep class (outside of the home) over the summer and take the test again in Aug. That’s over 9 mo from now, so maturity could help. But I’d leave that up to him. We have a great community college system that has transfer agreements with state schools, and we also have several good schools within commuting distance that are affordable. So we have options, thankfully. I was just wondering if there are things I could have done in the earlier years to prepare him better. I have appreciated all of the responses! There are some things, like Latin, the Mensa reading list, etc. that I am planning to do with the next two kids in line that I didn’t do with the oldest. The article that was linked about top scorers mentioned getting a newspaper subscription, and I’ll probably do that as well. Thank you all for the input!

Thank you, Nancy!

Wow, 250 points is a huge increase! Ds is still a junior so it is possible a year of growth could help. I don't want to put any pressure on him, so I'm just leaving it up to him as to whether or not to take the test again. You are so right that every kid is different. I think that can make it hard to tell if the child has performed to the best of his/her ability or if they simply haven't been well enough prepared. I do think oldest ds has probably done the best he can do. He studied hard and is slower in speed, in general, so it is what it is. I do wonder if there are things I can do to get the younger ones better prepared.

If your kids scored high on the SAT/ACT, do you feel it was simply a result of innate ability or were there specific things you did that helped them become high scorers? I went to a seminar by Jean Burke of College Prep Genius a few years ago and heard about how you can teach your kid to score well on the SAT and get lots of college scholarships. We didn't use her program, but my son did spend lots of time using test prep books and doing practice tests in hopes of scoring well, and his score did not improve that much. He can't work fast enough to finish the test, and his scores are stuck at the 90th percentile, which is good, but not good enough for scholarships as far as I can tell. I am just wondering if there are things I can do with my younger ones that might make these kinds of tests easier for them. I am NOT talking about test prep, but just things like, "We read these kinds of books" or "We did this kind of supplement to our curriculum and I think that helped." Again, just wanting to hear from people who have btdt about things that might have helped. My only reason for even thinking about this is because of the potential for scholarships that might make college more affordable for my kids.

You might try online classes for if you can’t find any classes you like irl. You could also look for group activities like speech and debate, mock trial, sports, etc. to replace the social aspect of CC.

I have two kids in Challenge, and it’s been great for them. That being said, if you’re not sold on the program or it’s philosophy, do something else. CC published the info on test scores to show that the program can be good for kids. That does not mean it is the only way to get good test scores as there are obviously plenty of kids who aren’t in CC who get great scores. That also doesn’t mean every CC student gets good scores. If you like Foundations, but not essentials, you can drop Essentials. Or if there are portions of Essentials you like and others you don’t, you can adjust the stuff you don’t like. I guess I don’t see where you’re caught between a rock and a hard place. I did 3 years of Foundations with my kids, then decided we’d do other things. My 5 younger kids aren’t in the program. My Challenge kids haven’t done and likely won’t do all Challenge levels. It’s perfectly okay to do only portions of the program or even drop it all together if it’s not meeting your needs.

I have not gone through it with a child, but I have been dealing with some very severe mental health issues with my mother. For the past year, especially, she has been on a self-destructive path and has caused crisis after crisis and created lots of chaos. It has been a nightmare. If there is a NAMI group in your area, it might help to attend one of their family support groups. I go from time to time and it is just a relief to be able to share what's going on with people who have btdt and have crazy stories of their own. It helps to know you're not alone and you're going to survive it. I'm also on a private FB group for adult children of mentally ill parents that serves the same purpose. I'm sure there are groups for parents, as well. The best thing for me has been to accept that this is not my fault and it is out of my control. I can be a support (when she accepts it), but I didn't cause this and I can't fix it. The stress of it all has done a number on my health so right now I'm trying to shift focus and take care of myself so I can take good care of my family. It is hard. My heart goes out to everyone who is having to deal with this.

I start with my little ones (3, 5, 7) first thing after breakfast every morning. I spend about 30-45 min working with them on math, reading and handwriting, then we're done with "school" for the day, leaving me time to work with my older kids. It helps to be able to check that box and know they're getting all of the formal school they need before the day gets out of hand with me taking care of other things.

If things aren't going better by the end of the month, I'll probably give this a try.

I reworked some problems today and got them right! First worked them the way I had things oriented, adjusting the angle measurements as needed, then looked at it the book's way. Same answer! This is one of those subjects where it does feel really good when you finally figure something out! I've been looking at a lot of supplementary material, and it is helping. Thanks for all the suggestions! And dh showed me to use graph paper for the drawings and showed me how to identify the triangles I am working with, etc. We do have the right answer key (it's online), so they must have forgotten to update that problem in the new version. I *think* I'll be ready to teach ds next week. Thanks all!

Okay, that explains a lot. I looked all through the chapter and sample problems trying to figure out how they came up with that number. 😂 I'll check to make sure I'm using the right version.

Thank you!

Would different solutions arrive at the same answer? If I measure that angle at 0 and you measure it at 90, would we get the same answer as long as we orient everything else correctly? That would be great! I will absolutely reimburse you if you find something. I bought the homeschool edition of a public school text. I thought there would be videos and online labs, but it really just gives me access to additional worksheets, tests and the solutions manual.

Thank you so much! This is like learning a new language. Yes, we're using trig. Getting everything set up correctly seems to be the biggest issue. If we get all the "givens" correct, we can find the unknowns.

Okay, that's good to know. We'll always draw a picture from now on. I think the real problem is confusion over how to get the initial angle measurements correct if they aren't explicitly given. I just looked at another problem that began with a person running due north and that angle was given as zero. I find it very confusing. If we get the angle measurements correct, we can solve the problems correctly.

1. That is why I was confused on #1. We got the answer wrong, and when I looked it up in the solutions manual, I saw that it used -5.4 for change in height. I cannot figure out where that number came from. 2. We did draw a figure, but I'm not sure it was drawn correctly. They don't provide figures in the solutions manual. We did get the angle that was specifically given as 55 degrees. We had the other angles switched - angle 1 at 0 degrees and angle 3 at 90. Is the x axis always 0 degrees and the y axis 90?

Here's an example of how we struggle: 1. A pelican flying along a horizontal path drops a fish from a height of 4m. The fish travels 8.0m horizontally before it hits the water below. What is the pelican's speed? We calculated change in y as -4 to plug into our formula. The book has it as -5.4. I can't figure out why. 2. During a rodeo, a clown runs 8.0m north, turns 55 degrees north of east, and runs 3.5m. Then, after waiting for the bull to come near, the clown turns due east and runs 5.0m to exit the arena. What is the clowns total displacement. The book had angle 1 at 90 degrees, angle 2 at 55 degrees and angle 3 at 0 degrees. I can't figure out how to arrive at these angle numbers. Not asking anyone to solve the problems, just saying that this is where our struggle is, not with the calculations. What are we missing?

I bought Holt McDougal physics to use with my 11th grader this year. I have never taken it, and thought we'd learn it together. It has been extremely painful and slow going. I have checked out a couple of library books and watched some YouTube videos that were helpful. We can do the math just fine, but can't wrap our minds around the concepts well enough to plug in the right numbers. We are pretty much stuck in ch 3 on adding vectors. I guess we can't picture it well enough to get the correct angle measurements to plug into the formulas, etc. I am not sure what to do. My aunt recommended Conceptual Physics, but that's not enough for 11th grade is it? Plus, he can absolutely do the math. Do we just need a tutor? Do I start over with a new book? I'm concerned that would send the wrong message as he won't get to choose his books in college. Would love your advice. ETA: Holt McDougal, not Holy, lol.

Perhaps call the College Board (or whoever is over it) and explain what happened and ask if there is another way she could get the letter to them. Maybe she could email it to you and let you upload it. I would (nicely) let her know how much potential scholarship money is involved. If she has really invested in him, I doubt she would want to mess that up just because she got frustrated with a website.

My oldest used WWS 1 & 2, and it was a really good fit. He used it mostly independently and has great writing skills. My current middle schooler is using The Lost Tools of Writing. It is totally different than WWS - more of a "what to write" program than "how to write" program - but it is equally good, IMO. I really like both programs.

I am thinking about using WWS 1 with my fifth grader (10 yo). I used it with my oldest when he was in 7th, and he learned so much and is a great writer. I love the curriculum. I'm just concerned my 10 yo might be too young for it. He doesn't have any learning challenges and seems to learn easily. Do any of you have experience with WWS with a student this young?

This is really helpful. Thank you!