I have a second edition Equine Science book by Parker with Instructor's guide for sale for $40 obo if interested. I don't check the boards often so email me if interested: slonewby@aol.com

Bravewriter is very, VERY different than IEW! We've done both and they are vastly different. Bravewriter strives to find voice, develop interest and explore....IEW is very, very structured. I'm not sure you can truly compare the two. If your writer feels stifled and blocked by the structure of IEW, I'd try Bravewriter...if your writer loves the structure, stick with IEW. We used IEW in the elementary through Jr High years and, while it was the single most effective means to get my reluctant writer to put something on paper, in the end it kind of stilted his writing and made it sound very contrived and programmed. We switched to Bravewriter and also employed the services of "Write at Home" and his writing has vastly improved overall. He still finds it very difficult to put ideas on paper but at least now there is some originality and flavor to his work.

We found the solutions to the proofs to be pretty worthless. As another poster mentioned, the answers can be developed many different ways based on logic. Our son rarely came to the solution the way the book did and that made me really nervous. So....we discovered that they have a phone tutor available for questions and I had our son run his proofs by him on a regular basis until I was comfortable knowing he was getting it. Then I'd only run the proofs on the tests with the tutor. Our son is just finished a pre-calc class at the community college with the only A in the class!

We just finished National Driver Training...it was pretty long and pretty boring but I honestly think they are all that way. I was fairly painless and took about 30-40 hours...but that's with a student who reviews EVERYTHING before he tests.

Ours looked like this: 7th - Algebra I 8th - Algebra II 9th - Geometry 10th - College Algebra at Comm College, Pre Calc at Comm College 11th - Calculus at Comm College 12th - Trigonometry at Comm College The 11th and 12th grade years may be reversed and/or he might take both classes in 11th. He is currently in 10th right now. On the transcript we have a section that is titled "high school level work completed prior to 9th grade" and have listed his early math courses there as well as foreign language.

I really think it depends on the student. I have one who did Saxon through Alg 1 ...then, to "try something new" we decided to try Teaching Textbooks for Alg 2 and Geometry. He thought it was easy. He is now taking his math at the community college and getting a 98% in the class. He is my child who could basically learn math no matter how it's presented. He's just wired that way - to think mathematically. He learns the "why" because it intrigues him. He stays after class to discuss advanced math that isn't in the scope of his coursework with his professor....(how this happened, I'll never know....it's just who he is) Our daughter, on the other hand, can DO the math, but really doesn't think mathematically at all. She will learn "how" to do the problem to get through the subject but the why's are of no interest to her. She is currently doing Saxon Algebra 1 and is doing fine but she isn't wired the same way and I don't really think any program can substitute for that natural "wired-ness" of certain students. She excels in understanding the nuances of literature....an area that baffles my math student mentioned above.

I have a "math kid"....he did Saxon through Algebra, tried and hated Chalkdust, merged to Teaching Textbooks and found their Algebra II too easy but thought they did a great job with Geometry. He is now at community college taking math and loving it. We thought he'd test into college trig/precalc but, because there are a few components in TT that aren't presented until their precalc book, he ended up having to take college level intermediate algebra instead. Just know that most math sequences go farther in Algebra II than TT does. They get there, but not until you complete the entire series (through PreCalc). But, he's loving math, has a 98% average and is excited about math on an almost daily basis..... Janine in CA

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with former posts regarding English credits in Notgrass. I've checked into what local high school programs include and I must say that the variety and depth of the Notgrass World History reading is adequate. It will probably not suffice for a student who would benefit from a strong great books course but I have a very math and science student and for us, it is fine. The author has reasons for why he worked the course the way he did and I appreciate his thoughts on this. The writing assignments are plentiful and varied... however, we are using an online writing course for more instruction and critique this year so we aren't actually doing the Notgrass writing component...at least for this first semester. We add history channel dvds and other visuals also...for fun. And, we do it as a family which leads to great discussion. Please remember when reading others reviews, that your students are unique and what may be easy for one, can be challenging to another....also, that each parent brings something to the plate of homeschooling and can add/alter any curricula to fit and individual student's needs.

Ellie, I find the 10 credits interesting. I've always heard that one year (two semesters) credit equals simply "1" credit and a single semester course equals .5 credits. Maybe this differs in regularity per district? Also, I've heard that any community college semester course that offers 3 college units equals an entire year of high school credit. This brings up another thought...what about those 2 unit courses or the 5 unit courses cc courses? Our son took a 2 unit computer programming course last year at the cc. For the amount of time he spent on that course both inside and outside of class, I gave him a full year's high school credit. I'm not sure if I can give him any more than one year high school credit for his 5 unit accelerated college algebra course though.... Janine

I list the course as it is listed at the community college with an asterisk saying (this course completed at Cuesta College...blah blah). Official transcripts from the college will need to be submitted in addition to the high school transcript I assume so it doesn't really matter. I would think his highest course would be his highest course...no matter where it was taken. Janine

From what I understand, the second year of Rainbow is an entire year devoted to Biology. I was thinking about doing the first year this year (8th grade) and then continuing to do Biology next year with Rainbow for 9th grade. The publisher has a document listing their reasons for their course being used in either 7th/8th or 8th/9th....From that document, here is an excerpt: "In our viewpoint, this curriculum is entirely adequate and fulfills all necessary requirements for high school credit as a 9th or 10th grade Introduction to Biology. It is designed to be completed as such in the 9th grade." They go on to state that they feel an *inappropriate* use of their curricula would be to consider it as a high school physics or Chemistry course (as it lacks the appropriate mathematical rigor) or as an Advanced Biology course. Many on this list have voiced their opinions that they feel it's too light to be considered a high school level course..... If Rainbow is considered too light for 9th grade biology, I was thinking about supplementing with video, more dissections, maybe some time spent with a veterinarian...more work on classification of species.... Honestly, she isn't a math/sciencey girl and if I can get her excited about science, I think I've won the battle. I don't remember much about my high school biology class other than boredom, NO dissections, labs were mostly movie viewing....lots of memorization of facts that I've not really used since.... I didn't really start liking science until I had some fun material to work with (veterinary/animal science later on in HS and on into college) more thoughts?

Brian, the tutor, at TT saved us! Our son is very mathy but his thought process was different than the proof writers of TT so his answers would always be very different. We would call Brian at TT to go over proofs until our son proved to me that his logic was sound. Then, I only had him call Brian for the proofs on the tests. They would go over them on the phone and 99.9% of the time our son's logic was just fine. THANK YOU BRIAN!!! and, thank you, Teaching Textbooks, for having him work for you!

Our daughter is not a math/science type so we chose Rainbow Science for it's short lessons and fun looking labs. She is in 8th grade though and I'm wondering what others have done for 9th...did you just continue with Rainbow as is, or did you add to it? or do something else? The publisher says it can be used as is for 8th and 9th grades. I don't really want to plow through it (complete it all in one year.) She did Apologia General Science last year and really didn't care for it. Thoughts??

nope, no trouble. Mine came in 10 calendar days.

I ordered mine on September 7 and it came today! so....what is that...10 days? Janine

We took the plunge and had our 15 yr old take Chem at the local Community College. It is a TOUGH course. He's always been an easy A student at whatever I throw at him (lol...maybe not writing) but right now I think he has a B in the class. I guess that's not bad considering he's never had chem, it *is* a UC level course and he's only 15. I asked him if he'd rather do Apologia (he did Bio last year) with a local co-op....nope. He likes the class and feels like he's up to the challenge. Just another option. I didn't want to have to do the labs at home! Janine

That is a really good idea...thanks for reminding me of that class. I haven't thought he was *ready* for it but it might be just what he needs.

KarenAnne~ that was most helpful. Thank you for taking the time to reply. You *have* set my mind at ease a bit. He is actually a pretty good writer ...when he writes. I think the entire process for him is just painful. He is witty, he can develop his ideas pretty well....it's just hard and takes him a LONG time to be happy with even one sentence. He once told me, when he was about 9, that metaphor was like lying....because he just didn't think that way. He is a man of very few words but they are well crafted on paper as well as in person. He is very familiar with the 5 paragraph formula...I'll have to check into some of the others. I've also thought about working with him more on timed essays...just to get him thinking/writing faster. I think he may get so bogged down trying to create the "perfect" sentence/paragraph that he loses momentum. I think it may have been a mistake to place him in a more creative writing class. I thought it would be good to stretch that area but perhaps not. Thanks so much again

our 10th grader is one of those math/science minded kids. He's very analytical and, as far as I can tell, he thinks in numbers and formulas. He has an excellent vocabulary (4 years of Latin), is very smart......he *can* write..but it is extremely difficult for him. Analytical writing isn't *as* bad but he has a "story telling" assignment to do about a success or failure in his life. He's chosen to write about mastering the Rubik's Cube........he has labored over this assignment and, currently he has three very short paragraphs outlining how to solve the cube......not a story.....I literally think it's painful for him to think creatively in this venue (writing).... We've done IEW, Rod and Staff, I've had him outline and summarize various science/history/literature, even an online class (which he did very well in) - I'm about to pull my hair out thinking that he'll never make it in college English.....let alone pass the SAT? He can eventually pull a decent paper together...with much help in editing....but I'm tired of pushing/prodding....I SO want it to come more easily for him. Any suggestions?

Our CC canceled all but a few summer classes due to budget constraints. Dual enrollment is considered *enrichment* for high school students (homeschooled or not) so they get last priority for everything and can only take up to 9 units. We've still managed to get our son in for two semesters though and he really, really likes it so far. We are staying away from the english courses as they tend to be too adult in content (hmmmm...not sure if *adult* is the term...I wouldn't want to stand for it either! lol.) Anyway, he's taking math and science and last spring he took a cptr programming class.

I actually contacted Dr Wile about the "colleges not accepting" Apologia ....he said that he was not aware of any students who have used his texts not being admitted based on the creation science texts. Currently, I am not aware of any transcript reporting methods that require you to list texts/publishers etc on a transcript...all you list is something like "Biology with lab" etc. Unless they change that system, you *should* be fine with it. Most Christian schools teach creation science....but, I do think that we, as Christians, need to teach both sides. Continued education will most likely go the evolutionary route and it's best for students to be prepared to understand and discuss the other side...even if they don't ascribe to it. Janine

We just started this and so far I really like it...so do the kids. We read it aloud together and it has sparked many a good discussions already. We haven't really gotten into the "history" part yet...so far it's been a discussion on worldview and how we see history. I plan to supplement with history channel dvds and some other things when we feel like it. I'm only counting it as a history and English credit and feel like I need to supplement the English credit with some grammar, discussion etc. We aren't using the writing component this semester as I signed the kids up for an online writing class instead....maybe we'll use that part next semester. There is alot of literature reading for our "doesn't like reading" son....it will suite our daughter just fine. Janine

I just had a heart to heart chat with our daughter about science and we both agreed that, due to the difficult nature of parts of this equine book...coupled with the fact that she really wants to keep her horse stuff "fun" rather than "work", we won't be doing it as our official science for the year. I think I've decided to go with Rainbow science with her for 8th and possibly 9th grade. She really doesn't enjoy the study of science and, after looking at Rainbow, I think she will enjoy it more than Apologia (which we used last year.) Crossing fingers that it will be easy to implement and a joy for her....... I can already feel this year taking off to a rocky start. It will be a few weeks until we get the science curricula...I guess we'll fill in with some field trips and videos until...or, maybe just have her learn what she wants for a few weeks from the equine book. Thanks for the replies~ Janine

wow...that is eye opening, Ellie. Our son took his first class last semester at the CC and is now taking two. I'm not sure our daughter will be ready for CC as early as our son was though. I'm new to all of this dual enrollment stuff. If you would care to chat about dual enrollment and transcripts offlist, I'd love to hear from you~ So...as a veteran, are you indicating that I can indeed relax a little for 8th grade science? She did Apologia General last year - she did well but really didn't enjoy it. I'd rather have excited kids who love to learn rather than ones who are trudging through material that they hate just to please me and get good test scores.

I just reread my email and wanted to comment that I didn't mean to imply that I thought you, rengentrude, were robbing your kids of their childhoods. It was just a blanket statement based on what I've seen in many...and one of the reasons I would like a "lighter" year for our daughter. Everyone does this thing called "home schooling" a bit differently and there are no pure, perfect or "right" ways to do it. Janine