nitascool
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Posts posted by nitascool
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I read an article in a scientific journal... that I can't find right now (sorry)... but it said that people read 10% slower on a Kindle or Ereader then using regular print. I've seen this be the case with my own son with Convergence Insufficiency. Though using a Kindle doesn't seem to effect my normally tracking son as much, he also reads more slowly on the Kindle then from a book. My son with CI doesn't have a reading problem, but a writing problem. His VT said not to have him do writing during his 12 weeks of therapy, but to wait until he is done. He's got two sessions to go. If he were having reading issues she would have told him not to do reading during the 12 weeks we've been going to therapy.
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At 6 weeks my oldest stopped napping and slept 6 hours a night. At 6 months I taught him not to wake mommy until the sun comes up. I need at least 8 or I literally can not function. Now he is 13, he sleeps 10 hours, those teen hormones have given me the toddler I always dreamed of. Since age 12 he does not wake on his own.
My Aspy who doesn't score gifted, but certainly acts it, took 2 twenty minute naps a day before one, then stopped altogether on his 1st birthday. He has always slept 7 1/2 hours at night from birth. A few months ago he started sleeping a bit longer, about 8 hours. He's 11 and started puberty as well. I never wake him, he often wakes me on Sunday.
My advanced (not tested) third son sleeps 8 hours. He will fall asleep when he's tired, and I rarely have to tell him to go to bed. He slept 6 hours at 3 months with two 30 minute naps a day. At 8 months he dropped down to one 20 minute nap. At 14 months he stopped napping. I never wake him except Sunday.
My advanced (not tested) daughter slept through the night, 6 hours, at two weeks. She took two naps until she was 3 months old. Then she would only nap with mommy. So not more then once or twice a week for 20-30 minutes. She couldn't or wouldn't sleep in her own bed after age 1 and had night terrors every night she was forced to sleep in her own bed. She is now 6 and has just begun to sleep in her own bed w/o having night terrors. She sleeps about 6 1/2 to 7 hours most nights... once or twice a week she will sleep extra long about 9 hours. I never wake her except Sunday.
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You mentioned that your son had a infection of some sort in the past? I'd make sure it hasn't come back.
That would be my first step in the process of figuring out why my 9yo had so much anger and irritability. Children aren't naturally like this. My second step would be to make sure he is getting enough and the right kind of sleep... is he falling asleep within half an hour of going to bed? Is he reming? You can check to see if he is reming when he's been asleep about an hour look at his eyes...are his eyeballs move below his closed eyelids? If not to either question you'd want to get a sleep study. Third I'd look at his food... which you have and fix the issue. Then I'd see what else is going on.
Your son sound like he's got a lot of ADHD symptoms and a lot of SPD symptoms. Being distracted by sounds is partly a focus issue. Since you didn't see this in the toddler years it makes me think that it's not actually either. I'd look into vision issues. It's less expensive and a shorter wait time then a neuropsyc. evaluation and it's something you'd want to rule out anyway. Many kids with a certain vision issue called Convergence Insufficiency also have symptoms of ADHD or SPD. You can have 20/20 vision and still have CI, and read well above grade level and still have CI... so don't assume it's not the issue, make sure it's not. You will need to see a Developmental Ophthalmologist because a regular Ophthalmologist won't be able to diagnose CI. My guess is that more then one thing is going on with him.
My son is sensitive to gluten. He has been gf for a year and 5 months. He has had a few slip ups now and again. We all suffer the consequences when he does. Gluten causes similar issues in my ds as you are seeing. Extreme sensitivity to sounds, light, tags, scratchy cloths, annoyance in being in his own skin, were common occurrences before we removed the gluten. Not to mention the extreme brain fog.
Removing the gluten was the #1 best thing we have done for our son and our whole family. My son now asks people, "Does that have gluten in it?" before he eats something. He can now ask this question every time and if the answer is "yes" or "I don't know"... then he doesn't eat it. This was not an easily won battle, to teach a kid to say no to a cookie is hard.
First we had to make our son aware of what was causing his issues... we made some videos of his good behavior compared to his bad behavior. Then we showed him during a good behavior time (many tears were shed). Once he understood the real issue, that we knew he was a good boy with a bad behavior problem that he could not control on his own he was better able to allow change.
Then we made the no cheating rule. This was the most difficult for all of us. Learning that a little gluten is just as bad as a lot is a hard won truth. Over the last year and a half we've learned that going out to eat must not be looked at as a "treat time to cheat time" it is not a license to cheat. His diet is not a punishment, so he doesn't need a "treat". We can go to McDonalds and get a burger w/o a bun and he's used to that now. We can go to Domino's and get a gf pizza w/o cheese (when he was dairy free). If you get yeast flakes (tastes like cheese when baked) and bring then in they will add that to the pizza for you at most Domino's restaurants. Once we had that concept down (took us about 3 months) we went on to making sure he "never" eats gluten. Well that required consequences.
1. Having eaten gluten is not an excuse for bad behavior so when you behave badly you're banned from family life time (stuck alone in room isn't fun).
2. If you aren't responsible enough to monitor what you eat I will...we all became his food chaperones (can't go anywhere without one for 30 days. It takes 30 days to make a habit. Everyone in the family took charge of his diet (not fun for a younger sib to tell you how you can't eat that). We also removed it from our home while he detoxed.
3. Then he was given responsibility again. And he of course promptly screwed up. So he was banned from the offending site of temptation. Our poor boy didn't go to Nana's for a month until he understood just because she offers you a cookie doesn't mean you can have one. (For your son it would be the sports arena.)
At age 9 your son is old enough to take ownership of his diet if you take the steps necessary to train him. I've seen 2 & 3 year olds able to ask every time that (or similar) simple question.
With your sons food issue I'd be really concerned about putting him in PS. In our local PS the school is required to give every child (even the sack lunch kids) a well balanced meal, which includes grains. When visiting a PS lunch line we were told that every child had to have bread. When I explained that ds had a gluten allergy (too hard to explain what a sensitivity is compared to an allergy)
we were told that he "Has to" have the bread on his plate. It was the same with milk and nuts and even peanut butter, even if they had a doctors note. I asked,"What about kids who have anaphalxis to certain foods". I was told that it is the child's responsibility (even 5yos) to just not eat the offending food. I was very surprised at this, but it is the state policy. I don't know if it is that way in every state but considering the new "Common Core Standards" if it's not, it soon will be.
As far as family dynamics goes...Having him in our family, in our homeschool, has not always been easy, but I've seen what a broken school system (ours is very broken, not all are) can do to an Aspy boy and it isn't pretty. I used to worry about his effect on my other children. And there are negetive effects for sure...but I've begun to realize that having to deal with their brother has developed some interesting and desirable traits in my other three.
My oldest is more compassionate then he used to be when dealing with people who are different. My youngest son is more patient then his nature demands and has become more careful with what his body does as not to disturb his brothers sensitive ears. And my dd is more understanding of her brothers immaturity then she might have been otherwise.
We have modified our lives for my son (a school won't do that)... but we have also worked on his issues.
One example of this is; when he was 4 we avoided Walmart as if it were on fire, at 5 we brought him in for 5 min. and then sent him to wait in the car with dad, now he can handle all that sensory input for about an hour. Watch this video to better understand what he is dealing with in the sensory area. It may help you to better deal with the meltdowns and the outbursts to understand where he's coming from. We've had good results with removal of the offense and then slow reintroduction. He can often, not always, tolerate a lot more then he used to.
Removing the gluten removed about 75% of his behavior issues and doing VT for his Convergence has removed about 15% more. He will never be "normal" but he is so much more content in himself then he's ever been.I wish you the best with whatever your family finally decides and hope that at least some of what I've penned here was helpful.
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Yes, I wanted so much to do Latin and Logic. We've done a bit over the years, but in the end the basics had to come first. More of the basics then the average bear, but the basics is what they want. They love lots of math, literature, art and science. I have one who's great at all things Language Arts but is content to do only what is absolutely necessary in that and all subjects. We've tried and tried to do timelines to no avail. I try to fold in some less formal logic and critical thinking in the mix, but with one "I hate schooler" and one Aspy, I'm doing good to get it all in the day. I think my littles would be classical if I could find the time in the day. I'd say I'm a classical mom with an eclectic bunch of kidlets. At least all my kids are lovers of books. We have books scattered all over the house, from bedrooms to bathrooms. And not but once have we had to tell then no reading at the dinner table. We limit the media and the dribble and that helps to keep away a lot of the needless distractions.
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We do a lot orally. But we use the regular version not the enhanced version. I find that it is enough writing for my gt boy (without writing issues) and a little too much for my Aspy boy (with writing issues). I'd just pick and chose what you want to work on or go through it in two years instead of one. We are averaging 1.5 years with my Aspy right now who is 11 and in CE2. At age 9 he has enough time if you took two years to do it. There are only six levels total so you could easily stretch them out 1.5 to 2 years and still complete the lens series by senior year. There is a big jump in writing from Island to Town so taking an extra year might be a better option then shelving it all together. Also you could do some scribing or typing instead of always pen to paper. You could use a white board if that would help and then just snap a picture of the finished work. Then you'd have a record without having to put it on a page. Some of the exercises we turned into Copy work, where I wrote what he said then he copied it. That helped some. Just a few suggestions off the top of my head. Hope you find a solution, I know it can be frustrating when you have a bright boy who just can't make his hands work like his brain does.
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My son has CI also. He does not have a reading issue, but a writing issue. The advice geodob gave is similar to what my son's VT gave us with regard to his therapy. Small measurable incremental steps in the direction she is leading. She did suggest that my son read no more then an hour and write no more then 15 min. at a time. With an emerging reader she said she suggests no more then 15 min. of reading instruction at a given time.
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Both my older two boys have a dx of add and adhd. We did not have a television in the house for the first four years of my oldest sons life and my second son did not watch a single television show until he was 3 and then it was less then an hour a week until he was 6. My youngest two have been watching television since they were 2 with an average consumption of 4 to 5 hours a week until age 5 when they began watching an average of 8 to 10 hours a week. My younger two do not have a dx of ADD or ADHD.
My oldest who was born prematurely is gifted/ADD and has a significantly lower processing speed and working memory then any other score on his IQ more then 30% points lower then his age peers. These two areas of deficit is what is showing up as ADD for him. He is also deficient in vitamins and minerals and is in the 1st % for height and weight for his age.
My second son who was also premature and deprived of oxygen at birth was first dxed with ADHD and SPD at age 6 and ASD at age 9 is more of a classic ADHD behaviorally. He is not a defiant boy though. He is reckless and has little impulse control. He bites, and that is his biggest "defiant" behavior (he has PICA). He is quick to obey, he is equally as quick to forget that he was just told to stop jumping or running or whatever. His scores had him in the 1% for processing speed and working memory, so he is significantly impaired in those areas.
When he was 5 I told him to stop jumping on the couch. He did as I told him, then he got back on the couch and started jumping again. I asked him why he had disobeyed me and he said, "I thought you meant just for that second, not for the whole minute." I told him for the whole day, and he said, "Mommy that's an unrealistic goal for me, can we shoot for five minutes instead." This is how an ADHD mind works. It works in 1 minute and 5 minute stints not in whole days. Once I realized that my ability to teach my son obedience and right behavior changed a great deal. Now at 11 I don't have to tell him not to jump on the furniture. Had I disciplined as disobedience instead of redirecting as a lack of impulse control and bad working memory each time he did what I'd told him not to I'd be grayer, he'd be anxious and our family would be filled with sorrow.
Sometimes you just have to do what works for your family even when the "experts" say it's not the right way.
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We have done nearly six years of OT for my ds's handwriting issues and while he has improved with the effort he is no where near his age grade in writing. He is now doing vision therapy for Convergence Insufficiency. According to the VT we may see some improvement in his penmanship after the sessions are over. If we do not we have been told to teach typing and hope for legible cursive enough to sign his name by mid-high school. If he were in PS he would not get services even though he is more then four grades below grade level in penmanship skills. The schools stop actively teaching penmanship around 5 grade after cursive.
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The "Even out by 3rd grade" statement is actually not in regards to early spontaneous readers. A quote from the study that so many misunderstand states:
"In the final phase of a large-scale randomized, controlled study of nearly 5,000 children, researchers found that the positive impacts on literacy and language development demonstrated by children who entered Head Start at age 4 had dissipated by the end of 3rd grade, and that they were, on average, academically indistinguishable from their peers who had not participated in Head Start."
You can find the whole article here.... I think this is a reprint.
You might consider a few things when reviewing this research... these children where systematically instructed in academic areas that would normally be delegated to their mothers who properly prepared would have done as good or a better job then the instructors. These children's mothers have to meet within the federal poverty lines to qualify. Most of these mothers where not adequately educated themselves to meet the needs of their young children (a high percentage being children themselves) . The parents were not educated in how to assist their children in academics once they entered into school. So head start may have helped them at age 4 but did not continue to help them at age 5-8. A good portion of these children where from broken homes, foster care, and abusive families which all contribute to poor academic performance. These children were compared to age peers in middle class families rather then their socioeconomic peer who did not attend head start.
The study only proves that helping children early (not teaching parents to help their children) is not the answer to academic acceleration in bright children who are born into poverty.
I was told regularly when my oldest was 3-6 that he would even out by 3rd, then 4th or 5th grade when he hadn't even out yet. When your child is already reading on a 3rd grade level at age 3 (I did instruct him at his behest) then that's not likely to happen. I thought maybe by Jr. High we might find that to be the case. I can say that he is not advancing as quickly at 12 and 13 then he did at 3 and 4, but he is still advancing more then a grade level a year with lot's of depth compared to his PSed peers. He's 13 now and though he has evened out in math (his non-gifted area) he is still years ahead of his NT peers in all things academic, artistic and maturity. Stick him in a room full of gifted Sheldon types and that's another story. He is not a fact seeker that's for sure. With three others on his tale reading at age 4 I am seen the opposite to be true. The farther advanced they were when they started formal school the farther ahead they get as the move through the grades. Excepting my Aspy son who is all over the map academically and behind maturity wise.
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I think you did a great job too. We have only had to deal with the question with my oldest. His is more an insecurity issue. He sees how his little brother can rattle off information about every animal he's ever heard of, while he feels slow on the uptake. He is labeled gifted but doesn't have average or gifted kids around him his age to compare with. He has his Asperger little brother. He actually does more questioning that he really is gifted since he doesn't know as much as little brother or care to spend hours reading science books. To him gifted means science nerd or rocket scientist, neither of which he has interest in. We've had the everyone has different interests and everyone is different conversation when he was 3 or 4, but not recently.
We get a lot more questions these days about Asperger and how that makes my second different. What we can expect as appropriate behavior compared to him and his other siblings. I have never had to have the "everyone has special talents" conversation. I think for him that would be a "duh mom" conversation.
My younger two are accelerated w/o the gt label. My 8yo sometimes asks related to gifted questions but hasn't outright asked yet. We'll wait until he does. When he asks we'll likely use a similar approach as you have. For now he just thinks he's suppose to try and keep up or catch up to his big brothers in academics. We'll clarify the question and then answer it as best I can without giving the impression of elitism, just different, when the time comes.
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He has been working on writing for 5 years with an occupational therapist, plus daily at home work and will be doing vision therapy over the summer. At present he can write two to three sentences, but past that he gets fatigued and becomes too sloppy to actually be read. With regard to science my son enjoys learning about science. The problem wasn't the approach as much as the content. He's read widely in zoology and quite a bit in oceanography so there wasn't a lot of new information. He would spend all his time watching documentaries and reading animal encyclopedia if I let him. The journals have 10 to 20 review questions, about 2 to 3 project or experiment pages and several more pages with space to write about what they learned and illustrations maybe 15 pages total. I am finding that he is getting to a point in curriculum where his writing skills and his comprehension skills are just so very far apart.
My oldest son did Apologia General this year. I think it was a gentle approach to a more academic higher level text bookish curriculum even though it is very steeped in the religious bend. I think it is a good counter for all the public library books (completely big bang stuff) and the PBS/Discovery type documentaries my son is so fond of. I don't know how to make this or any jr. high curriculum to work for him.
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The content and concepts of Apologia General is definitely attainable for my going into 6th grader. He's already gone through Botany, Zoo 1 & 2. I could do Zoo 3 or Human Anatomy and Physiology with him next year but, having perused the books I'm fairly sure he's already covered (in his free time) everything in them and will get the same, "I already know this" comments that I have this year with him. He struggled to do the Journal for writing this year. I mean really struggled. He could give me elaborate 30 minute descriptions to the questions posed in the section on seals verbally but, ask him to write them down and it dwindled down to... thE sEaL has Ear FlaPs.
I'm not sure how to deal with this. Science this year for him wasn't fun at all (and this is is favorite subject). I was wondering if any of you have ideas on how we can make it work for us. I thought maybe with so many having very young future scientist you might have some ideas I haven't thought of... I can only think to be his scribe...which my husband doesn't think is a good idea as we need him to become more independent in his work.
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We have seen a regular opt. for years with my son and never was told there was an issue outside needing glasses. We finally got a VT evel. from a specialist and found that he does have a treatable vision problem. My son reads and does math well above grade level so that is not always a good indicator of visual problems.
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Well, My gt 13yo ADD kid really disappointed us this year. We had expected going into 7th grade that we could let go of the reigns a bit and have him do more work on his own. That backfired big time, and one month in he hadn't finished a weeks worth of work. Not to mention the fact that between each subject he'd spend 15 to 20 minutes wondering around the house distracting the other kids. Grr. Even after realizing he couldn't be left to just do his work he's still behind in Math and hasn't quite finished his language arts or spelling programs. Things that did work... Apologia General Science (for my science hater) really worked and made him realize that he can do more challenging work. MCT Language Arts (even though he hasn't quite finished yet) was/is a great fit for him. And he is finally getting math (which has been the bane of his existence for the past 7 years) with MUS PreAlgebra. I knew if he could just get through Zeta PreAlgebra would just click for him.
For my Aspy ST has been a big help for him. Having someone to show him how to talk to other kids has really made him brighten to the idea that he should take time with other kids even if they don't know all there is to know about the dung beetle. He's done well with grammar and writing (the process of thought not pen to paper) this year. Separating the reading, grammar and comprehension from the writing and me being scribe has really helped him come out creatively in his "writing". He's half-way through a fantasy story about a boy with purple hair and is 800 words in. This from my "just the facts" boy is something I never thought I'd see. No real progress was made this year in "penmanship" and his OT told us in Feb. that she was at the end of what she can do for him with regard to penmanship. We discussed other options and began typing, which we haven't been consistent with. I am hoping for better consistency in that regard next year. We found out that he has Convergence Insufficiency and is likely the reason we haven't seen the progress we'd hoped this year. Probably the best thing we did for him this year though was get him off wheat. His focus has gone up so much sence removing it. His attitude is so much sweeter when he's not on it as well.
So the things that worked:
MUS Epsilon/Zeta
SOTW 3 & 4, George Washington's World, Of Plymouth Plantation, History of US Vol. 1 (can you tell he loves history?)
MCT Town (with me being scribe for writing)
All things not requiring written proof of mastery were a big hit from extra reading in LA, History, Science and Politics to conversations about the latest TED talks.
Things that were so-so:
Apologia Zoo - the text is too simple but the writing requirement is to much. He did this with his 6yo sister (doing the Jr. Journal) and his 8yo brother doing the regular journal and both consistently had to wait for him an average of 15 minutes to move on to each new section. It was frustrating for all. I think Apologia General would have been a better level as far as content but way to much writing.
Things that didn't work:
We never even got to Latin this year. Science and math just suck up too much time.
Sequential Spelling this was mostly my fault as I wasn't consistent enough to make it work the way it's supposed to. Also it required to much writing. I know it's not much compared to others. The fact that he can spell the word aloud correctly, then write it incorrectly let me know that something outside of knowing the sequence of word patterns was causing his spelling issues.
My younger two did well across the board. They spent too much time waiting for instruction from me throughout the year... but in retrospect I think they got more instruction from me then they would have at our local PS. My 8yos biggest hit was MUS Gamma and my 6yos biggest hit was Apologia Zoo 2. My biggest life saver this year was Starfall.com which kept my 6yo occupied while I was busy with the big kids.
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We have had similar issues with our ped. It took three years with our first ped. to get a developmental eval. for my son. They totally missed his AS. If you want to continue with this doctor I'd make it clear where you stand and insist on the evaluations despite her "opinion" of your schooling options. As far as getting evals through the PS, most schools have very long waiting lists.
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My youngest is 8 years old and typically developing. I have noticed over the years so unusual behaviors.
-Hates tags in clothing and seams in socks
-Cannot stand to have her fingernails cut. It 'hurts' her fingers and bothers her when she touches anything smooth for days (such as paper, or sheets).
-Very clumsy. It's a good day if she has less than 20 bruises on her body.
-Excels in reading but struggles in math.
-Horrible handwriting. Writes letters from bottom to top, reverses. This couldn't be corrected even with an OT.
-Profoundly dislikes 'soft' items. She doesn't like soft blankets or stuffed animals (unless they have a coarser 'fur' rather than soft/cuddly).
-Picky eater but loves sour foods. Everything else is usually 'spicy' which she won't eat.
-Very creative.
Any thoughts? We see our psychiatrist (she has anxiety) on Tuesday and I'd like to ask his opinion.
My son has Low Tone, SPD, Aspergers, ADHD and has severe vision issues (Convergence Insufficiency). So there's a lot of stuff going on with him... but some of what you are talking about sounds like Sensory Processing Disorder. Some sounds like low tone (probably a milder case), and some sound like a vision issue (especially if you are seeing writing and math issues). You don't usually see dysgraphia and dyscalculia in the same person without a vision impairment.
Tags, socks, fingernails, disliking soft items, and picky eater are all sensory issues. Depending on how severely they effect her life would gauge weather or not she would be diagnosed with Sensory Processing Disorder (or Dysfunction). If she spends her entire day being distracted by her tag to the point of scratching holes in her neck or ripping off her clothes that would be on the severe end. If she is such a picky eater that she has only 5 foods she will eat that would be severe. If she just doesn't like mushrooms that wouldn't qualify. To get a diagnosis for SPD you would have to go to an OT.
Very Clumsy- could be low tone issues, could be vision issues.
Math Struggles -could be vision issues, could be Dyscalculia
Hand writing - could be vision issues, could be Dysgraphia
Even though my son can read well above grade level and has no math issues he still has a severe case of Convergence Insufficiency (so please don't assume it's not vision related just because she can read well). We assumed it was fine motor related because of his fine motor delays and have spent 5 years of OT for the writing issues. Though they were able to remeditate some of his grip problems he is still well below grade level, because the letters move on the page as he is writing them. It is very hard to write inside the lines when the lines are moving. Had we realized that their were two issues going on at the same time we could have dealt with his writing issues years ago. As it is he is at least 3 grades below his age grade in writing (penmanship).
He also got OT for SPD. When we first began OT with him we couldn't take him to the store because the lights were too loud for him (they buzzed). The noise of others, and the smells were to much. He often overloaded on the outside stimuli and would shut down or freak out. He had tag issues, sock issues, fingernail issues, noise issues, and a tone more. Though he loved soft things to the point of giving himself rashes from rubbing them to much. He hasn't been cured of the SPD but he has learned to cope much better then when he was younger. So much so that when he had his last neuropsyc. evaluation the doctor said he didn't display any outward signs of SPD anymore. As a mom I can see them but apparently others can't see them as well as they used to.
As far as the psychiatrist is concerned I would suggest you bring evidence of her aversions. Video and pictures of her aversions, some of her school work to compare her handwriting and some of her math work, as well as, a short list of her most recent reads to give him a better idea of what you are dealing with. Children with SPD can often be misdiagnosed with an anxiety disorder because they often have anxiety related to their inability to filter out certain senses. So while some SPD kids have anxiety it is not the same as a child with an anxiety disorder as it is not rooted in the same causes and is better treated with OT then with medication, or with OT and medication in some cases. So be sure and include you daughters sensory quarks when talking with the psychiatrist.
If you are a quick reader you might check out "The Out of Sync Child" by Carol Stock Kranowitz before your appointment Tuesday.
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I knew someone was going to say this. We're going to have to agree to disagree on this. You know lots of gifted people, and I know lots of gifted people. Personally I think the difference between our positions is in what we believe is reasonable to expect from most public school districts in our country. It is my understanding and belief that public schools do not need to provide the *ideal* education for each individual child, or even each category of child. The public school institution has too many constraints, not the least of which being that it's run by governments. The purpose of public school is not to stimulate every child, but to develop a population with the necessary skills to keep the economy running. Everything else is gravy. In a private school, parents may hope for more, but without the critical mass to make it cost-effective, it's going to be limited too. Unless you're going to start your own school (or homeschool), things just aren't going to be optimal for the kids you're concerned about - or for any other kids, either. Kids who need more stimulation are going to have to figure out how to get it - just like they always have. Of course if your district has the money and creative leadership, then more power to you, but I don't think that's widespread or that it's ever going to be.
For the first blue statement...I think the fact that the majority of the people posting on this thread and this forum in general are either homeschooling or afterschooling proves that they don't "expect" much from the school system they are slated for. I don't send my kids to the local ps for many reasons. One of those reasons is that I know, for a fact, that they would not meet my children's needs. We would be homeschooling even if they were willing to try, but that's another story.
If school districts are not required to be certain to meet all the needs of their constituency then why do they require my children as homeschoolers to meet their state standards? As one of the children who fell through the cracks (and never met any state standard but still graduated in the middle of my class) I resent that I had to spend 13 years in a system that could care less if I learned anything. As a 2E before there was 2E I know what it feels like to both be the one "holding up" the class and the one sitting "twiddling her thumbs". If public schools were at least honest with parents of gt and sn kids by simply telling them in the beginning that they could not meet the needs of their child I might be able to agree with you, but they don't. Instead they force these kids to go year after torturous year of excruciating doldrums and then (if it weren't so very tragic it would be laughable) call this an education.
I refuse to force my children to waist 11,700 hours of their lives just because someone thinks they are inconvienantly outside the norm. I will not force my children to have a second rate education just because it doesn't fit within the needs of the many. The public school system in our community can't meet my children's academic needs, their social needs, or any other procieved need that schools are suposed to be meeting. So yeah, I don't expect much from them, other then leaving my family the h. alone. But if I ever had to place my children into one of those public school classrooms I am quite sure I would be up in thier teachers face every week making sure my child got the propper education he/she needs. The city school my children are slated for has a national ranking of 27% (Very Poor). If they can't even educate the average child I doubt they could educate my HG, my 2E or my 2 subject accelerated children. I gave up on the PS meeting any of my children's needs a long time ago.
As to the second blue statement. If the adults in my community are a reflection of this "population with necessary skills" then our school system has not just fallen short on meeting the needs of the top 1% but also that of the lower 99% as our community is currently in the lowest economic class in my state with 12.10% of our population below the poverty line and our median income being $35,607. In my community we aren't getting the basics, and you can just forget any gravy.
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Did you actually read what I wrote? Because that would probably help. I'm not talking about kids who actually have special needs. I'm talking about kids who don't have a legitimate diagnosis, but whose parents find a doctor who will diagnose them as having ADHD or something so they can gain an edge with standardized tests and stuff. And yes, that happens quite a lot. Here's just one article discussing it:
http://www.takepart....etend-have-adhd
Also, you might want to recheck your eidetic memory, because I'm from Minnesota, not Michigan.
LOL I am long past my eidetic memory days. It was always more keyed to what I heard then what I saw anyway, as reading is a foreign language to me. I have dyslexia. I think my four kids sucked most of my brain cells dry long ago. I am surely not trying to cause a fight with you. Really shouldn't post at 3 in the morning. Again that little bit about not phrasing things right.
I did actually read what you wrote. I was mostly referring to the fact that you seemed to assume it's happening every where and that so many are doing it. I am sure this happens, I'm not doubting that you have experienced this. Maybe a big city issues sense more rural areas around here don't really do anything or very little for ADHD kids, besides overmedicating them (if that is the dx you are referring). Maybe in Minnesota you get a lot of ADHD labels or some sort of learning disability label you are using for "special needs". It's extremely hard to fake CP or Autism, for instance. I guess there are unscrupulous doctors out there who would give a false dx. I hate to think they are the norm though.
"You seem to have some issues that have nothing to do with the forum here."
I have no current issues with this forum..as my littles aren't so little anymore...and wanting to share their cute little amazing things isn't well quite as cute, I guess. And everyone in the world has some sort of issue not related to this forum that's kind of a no brainer. I'm sure you were referring to "bragging" issues though. I guess that would depend on if you mean IRL or on a forum. In real life the only person I brag to about my children is my dh. We don't have supportive family when it comes to homeschooling. Our extended family believe that school is only for soialization and that accademics is a waist of time and just causes kids to be "eggheads" and "art quiers", their words. So no I don't and never have bragged about my children's accademic or artistic abilities to family. To friends, well most of my friends have children with special needs and talking about the giftedness of my kids would be like rubbing salt in a wound. So we talk about our struggles dealling with their special needs instead.
With this thread... I actually mostly agree with the article posted. I think it's a bit more complex an issue then the author has stated, but a good read nonetheless. If you read back, quite a few comments were made about not liking bragging.Which is rediculous considering that the majority of the people on this forum would never be IRL braggers and that everyone needs to have a place to talk about how proud they are of their child's real accomplishments. I think we as parents of gt kids are so often afraid of offending others and being called a baggart that it becomes a defence if we hear others finally talking about their great kids.
I don't come on here bragging about my 13 yo. I could, he is an amazing young man, as are all my children. He is my only "official" gt child with scores to prove it and apparently for some that matters. I could have used a place back when he was doing early ed. to brag... but this wasn't that place then. And unfortunately still isn't. It should be though, as all moms need a place to talk about their great kids. And others with great kids should be able to diferentiate between a proud mom who has no other outlet and a person trying to pump up their own ego. Moms of typically abled kids already have a place to brag about their great kids... its called real life, but we moms of precocious children aren't allowed because we're bragging.
So yeah, maybe I do have an issue it's just not the one you think I have.
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My son has mixed tone. He had Failure to Thrive as an infant and was premature by about 30 days. Before he had FTT (before 6 months) he seemed fine. His milestones were actually early then he just stopped gaining weight and lost abilities. I now blame baby cereal (specifically Oatmeal) for this. Because now we see a serious sensitivity to wheat products... but now actual allergy in the strict definition of allergy.
He had so many issues with learning to crawl. One leg he held straight (rigid) while trying to crawl with the other. When he learned to walk he went from scooting to running in a few days. He bounced literally against walls. Once he was out of his high chair he fell out of chairs w/o sides. At every single ped. appointment I told the doctor my concerns about how he had no impulse control... he only 2, 3, 4, 5 was the response. He had bruises from head to toe, but that was to be expected with boys. At 6 I begged for a developmental evaluation because I was sure something wasn't right. She agreed only to shut me up. He had severe lows and highs in relation to tone. He's had lots of OT and very minimal PT.
Now @ 11 he has a perfect physique. He could pass for a professional swimmer he's got that awesome look. But the boy can't swim. He took 4 years to learn to ride a bike. He can't play sports because he can't coordinate well enough. He couldn't write because he grips the pencil to hard. We've finally gotten that aspect all worked out. After 5 years of OT and now the therapist tells us she can do no more to help him with writing. He can write two sentences at about a 4th grade level. That is two sentences that take him an hour to write. Nearly a year below grade level wise but well below grade level for volume.
So we went to a Psychologist to get help (accommodations) and he said that there was some kind of eye issue. He had already been prescribed glasses (we thought we had that covered). So off to yet another doctor to tell us how much more money we'll need to spend to help my son. He has Convergence Insufficiency which is a focus issue in the eye to brain category. It's treatable and is related to low and mixed tone issues. Why not? If you can have low tone in arms and legs why not in the eyes as well?
The Vision Therapist said she was surprised he can read because most kids with as severe CI can barely walk w/o running into walls and can't read for sure. All the things we saw in him at 2 are on the checklist, five of the 7 ADHD traits are on the list. He'll never be over his low tone issues, but with therapy he can learn to focus better with his eyes and eventually with his mind as well. Maybe one day he will be able to function well in his own body. We have seen improvement over the years. But it is slow progress. The OT told us that he will never not have mixed tone issues. They can only help him cope with his issues not cure them.
I guess I said all that to tell you If you Mama radar is up and you think your child has low tone fight to get that eval. even if your ped. doesn't see it.
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Would this be a good book to take to grandma's house that would briefly explain to the nana who thinks a slice of bread isn't going to hurt her dear little grandson who is now gf due to sensitivity not allergy? I swear I have to start all over with my ds every time we go there. Seriously she gave my ds a pies of cake last time we were over there because it's not bread right. And a cookie the time before that, because one little cookie won't hurt.
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We had so much trouble with our oldest in math ironically the gifted one, that we have insisted that our younger children learn by mastery in math. We learned that our sons issues in math were due to a low working memory and processing speed. He was in the 20th % in both. He was 7 then and his little brother was 5. So we worked extra hard with my second son to get them right the first time. It took him quite some time to get the facts down. For five years he was "behind" in math. We did not know he was Autistic at the time or that his WM and Processing Speed were so low. My 11yo was tested last year and found to be below the 1st % in working memory and processing speed. So he is pretty severely impaired in those areas. He is not dyslexic but does have convergence insufficiency (vision problem) and dysgraphia, as well as, Asperger.
Unlike PPs I suggest that you go back and master addition and subtraction. Subtraction is probably your sons' problem with division. If you can't subtract, you won't be able to divide. If you can't add you can't subtract. Continue slowly in the conceptual math (sure use a calculator till he gets the basic skills memorized), but go back and do rote addition until it is down, then subtraction and then multiplication. If he can do those three then division will eventually click for him. Don't just settle. Don't say he'll never get it. Keep working with him and one day it will click.
I know it can be so very frustrating when you ask what is 5+2 and he says 15 or 21 and you just want to pull your hair out because you just gave him the answer to that question two seconds ago. So instead tell him 5+2 is 7 did you know that 2+5 is also 7. If you have 5 marbles and I gave you 2 marbles you would have 7 marbles. Well if you gave me 5 of your 7 marbles you would only have 2 left. Hey let's get out your marbles!
With my son we used manipulatives, flash cards, math dojo, math songs, one of those spinning math games, dice, dominoes, and math apps on his tablet. We spent more then an hour on fun math daily and more then an hour on drill in addition to the math curriculum. And we did those timed drill sheets, which we both hated so much but helped us speed up in our actual curriculum.
We had to drop some things to make room, that was hard for me. We bombarded the boy with addition until he finally got it... then we went on to subtraction, not forgetting to review addition facts daily. We used Math U See with the manipulative until it was like breathing for him. It is a lot of hard work and daily work but it is worth it in the end.
My 11 has a much better grasp on the higher math skills (fractions, decimals and beginning algebra) then his older brother who we didn't require to memorize facts from the beginning and doesn't have nearly as sever delay in working memory and processing speed. I would say especially if you think he may go into a technical skill set rather then college, drill the facts. If he doesn't get to geometry it's not as big an obstetrical as not being able to balance his checkbook.
Conceptually my son might or might not be a couple grades higher had we just let him use a calculator sure, but at this point he is at grade level and doesn't need a calculator. It was three years of intense work for my 11yo (four years for my 13 yo and he's still not quite there) I admit that. Sure he'd get accommodation in PS they don't have the time to teach a slower learner...but we do.
My oldest struggled through decimals, percentages and exponents while my 11 is having much less trouble simply because he has those facts down. Not having them down slows the process so much. My 13yo complains about feeling dumb because he can't remember if 6x4 is 12 or 24. Even though it took my 11 a little longer to learn that 6x4 is 24 he doesn't second guess himself on every problem because I made memorization mandatory for him.
Maybe mandatory drill isn't the way you will chose to go... but I just wanted to let you know that the effort put in and the gray hairs acquired is worth it and even possible with a severely delayed working memory and excruciatingly slow processing speed. You may even find that your son becomes proficient and even enjoys math as mine has.
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It's like grade inflation. Statistically, only a few students should really get straight As, and when grades are an accurate reflection of a child's effort and knowledge, they're a useful tool for providing more individualized instruction. But now everyone gets As, because no one wants their kid to be the only one who doesn't have a 4.0 gpa. So the grades have ceased to be a useful tool. Now an A is no more than a gold star for completion.
Gifted labels are the same type of thing. If everyone has one because they think it's a nice thing to have, it's no longer a useful tool for educators. The problem happens with special needs labels, as well. There are many cases now of parents going out and basically paying for a label for their child so that kid can have the "perks" that go with it: more time for tests, alternative testing methods, etc.
Obviously, the best thing to do would be to abolish the labels completely and give each child an individualized education based on his or her unique strengths and weaknesses, but we all know that's impossible for a public school with thirty or forty kids in a classroom. Thus the labels.
WOW this is so wrong.
As a adult having had special needs in school and as parent of a special needs child I can assure you that you are way off base, at least in the states of California, Louisiana, Arkansas, Ohio, Missouri and Kansas (all the states I've lived in and dealt with SN and PS). Maybe Michigan is some sort of freak state or something. There are no PERKS with special needs children. They actually have those needs. These accommodations you call perks don't even level the playing field for these kids. They work not twice as hard but often 10 times as hard as the average child.
Also it is very hard to get a special need label in these states, much more so then a gifted label. ADHD label is fairly easy but little to no accommodation is given here for it... instead the kids are forced to take meds that could kill them even against parental objection. If your kid gets an ADHD label in Ohio and you PS them you give up your right to not medicate.
It took one afternoon to get a gifted label for my oldest son. It took six years for us to finally get an accurate diagnoses for my second son who was first labeled ADHD then SPD then Developmental Delayed, then PDD-NOS and finally Aspergers and now Convergence Insufficiency.
Doctors do not hand out those labels like candy as you presume. If my son were in PS he would get no accommodations because he isn't actually below the 5th % in anything other then penmanship. In our school district he would be expected to keep up writing wise and would be given bad marks for misspelled words when the letters are written backward or out of order. He would be expected to deal with the loud noises in the classroom even though he has super sensitive hearing (we were told he could not use sound muffling headsets because it would distract other children). We live a quarter of a mile from the local PS and he can hear the school bells ring throughout the day.
As far as getting accommodations in public school in my area most of the parents of children with IEP's have to fight tooth and nail for every single accommodation and then have to daily check up to make sure the teachers are actually doing those accommodations. Not something most parents of an average kid are likely to do just so they can have more time on a test.
I think that it is more likely that there are more special needs kids... since our world and food supply are so polluted and our children are bombarded at birth with heavy metal poisoning. If you want to find a cause for the increases in labeling you might look in those areas rather then conniving parents. I'm sure there are a few, but when you use such a broad brush you negate the truly special needs children, and give the bureaucracy yet another bit of ammo to stop the needed "perks", as you call them, these kids need just to survive public schools.
This coming from a child who was labeled gifted/learning disabled at age six and barely survived the public schools with accommodations in 7th grade only. If it weren't for my eidetic memory I would have never survived my public school education, much less, been able to teach myself how to read, write and do sums as an adult once I was finally diagnosed with dyslexia.
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No one's going to look at you "in a bad light" if you're excited to share a child's achievement or something. But bragging simply for the sake of bragging is in bad taste no matter where you are.
Having been on these boards a long time (10 years now, I think), I have in the past made statements that were taken as bragging in which I wasn't bragging. But even if I was bragging I don't really see the negitive vibe that others give out about bragging in the same way you do. I see this as a place where parents should be able to ask for advice on how to deal with their gifted child and not be accused or brow beat just because they are not good at phrasing their questions or comment in a humble enough manner. I've always found support from some on here and good advice too, but I have found judgment and misunderstanding as well
It's a shame really because moms of gifted kids should have a place to come. Even simply for the sake of bragging, because as a mother its our right to be proud of our child. And in this world I live in you're only allowed to shine if you can dunk a basket or throw a killer football.
Of course no one likes someone who always brags... but I figure this is often the only place some parents have in which they can brag.
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I wrote a long diatribe about IQ scores, Giftedness, etc. but decided that well it just sounded like bragging and I remembered even though this is the accelerated board if you "brag" about your kid here then you're looked at in a bad light by the very people who should understand the need for a mom to talk about the great things her kid does. Sheesh what a disapointment.
Learning Challenges and Food Allergies
in The Learning Challenges Board
Posted
My son has diagnosis for FTT, ADHD, SPD, Autism, Convergence Insufficiancy, and possibly Dysgraphia. Fortunately the FTT diagnosis no longer applies though for some reason is still on his diagnostic records. He was "tested" for allergies and he had huge IgE numbers around 25,000 but magically tested for NO allergies at all. They insisted that he just take the blood test. We removed gluten and dairy from his diet a little over a year ago. Then added back the dairy 6 months ago with no ill effects. He is like a person on opium when he eats gluten though. He is dazed and grumpy, has bowel issues and sever headaches when he eats any gluten (even the tiny amount found in soy sauce caused a reaction). When he eats anything with red die #5 he becomes belligerent, violent, and pulls at he clothes, skin (draws blood) and hair (pulls it out). He has minor seasonal allergies- watery eyes, nose bleeds, puffy dark circles year round and sneezing fits once or twice a week in spring and fall.
We never immunized him so we know it wasn't due to vaccines. We believe there are only three possible explanations, besides genetics or environment, for his diagnosis'. The cord was wrapped around his neck twice at birth and he was purple when he was born, so there could have been brain damage (doctor says not likely because his 2nd APGAR was normal). He had FTT from 6 months to 1 year. He started gaining weight back when I removed all food from his diet (only nursing) against medical advice. He started loosing weight, tone and his voice (no more cooing or babbling) at 6 mo. when I added baby oatmeal per. his pediatricians advice. When I removed it his pigment, weight, tone (though not fully) and voice came back. But he never reached milestones on time after that, he was consistently 4-6 months behind.
He was very active (overly so) and did dangerous things like running into the street, climbing on the roof, etc. At 1.5 we got a prescription from his doctor to use a harness on him in public (it was against the law in that state to use without a script). At 6 he got an ADHD and SPD diagnosis (she also said he was mentally retarded with an IQ of 70). He was reading at a 4th grade level and doing 4th grade math in his head at the time. She prescribed Ritalin and "A good old fashion spanking". We chose to get OT and got a diagnoses of SPD. At 9 he was diagnosed with PDD-NOS, then Autism later that year. At 10 he was given an Asperger diagnosis. We are now only seeing social issues, penmanship issues and more mild (compared to before going gf) attention issue, slow processing speed with some things and some working memory issues (we've seen some improvement since we started VT).
I think he may have an autoimmune issue, candida, and vitamin deficiencies that our insurance refuses to test him for. The only vitamin testing they will allow is levels for vitamin D, once a year. Last November his level was 5. His doctor suggested 400IU supplement, we gave him 4000IU after talking with a nutritionist.