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Vegesaurus Rex

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Everything posted by Vegesaurus Rex

  1. The Ivy League is not the only path to success, but it certainly is a good one. Being from an Ivy has helped me all my life. You are also right about the Ivies being very strong in the East. However, as I have pointed out, schools like UConn are excellent choices as well. UConn has an honors program that allows for immediate research, groups together all of the honors students in the same dorm, and has special programs and classes only open to honors students. To my mind it combines the benefits of an Ivy, with the ambiance and cost of a state university. It is a great choice. I am also sure that your daughter's school was a great choice. Is there a reason that you haven't named the school, or explained why she chose that school over others. I for one would be interested if you care to talk about it. I think I have been very open about my kids experience, and I certainly never said or implied that others SHOULD use their approach or follow their path. My kids are unique, I think, even among home schoolers. Seriously, do you know any other home schoolers who have gone on to law school? Home school parents, yes. But not home schoolers. I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has a home schooler who did law school. I think the TWTM is an excellent guide for home schooling, and it does emphasize Rhetoric. However, in reality, I have noticed that Rhetoric and public speaking are generally not emphasized as much as they should be by homeschoolers.
  2. Vegesaurus Rex, on 09 Oct 2014 - 07:21 AM, said: Vegesaurus Rex, on 10 Oct 2014 - 10:05 AM, said: Vegesaurus Rex, on 09 Oct 2014 - 08:50 AM, said: Vegesaurus Rex, on 10 Oct 2014 - 10:12 AM, said: Vegesaurus Rex, on 10 Oct 2014 - 10:14 AM, said: Vegesaurus Rex, on 10 Oct 2014 - 10:17 AM, said: Vegesaurus Rex, on 11 Oct 2014 - 08:59 AM, said: Vegesaurus Rex, on 12 Oct 2014 - 05:20 AM, said: Thank you STEM for exactly proving my point. Most people on this board are interested in sound bites, not in actually understanding what is being said. You just gave a great example - taking quotes out of context so they are virtually meaningless. Let me take just one of your pastings and look at it closely just to make sure you understand what I object to. Vegesaurus Rex, on 11 Oct 2014 - 08:59 AM, said: I was responding to a person who was talking about salaries earned by History BAs from Wharton. The Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania is a business school and does not, and never has offered a BA in History. In fact, the poster, to her credit came back and apologized for her mistake. She also incorrectly stated that the average 4-year university grad earns a starting salary of $60,000. She would, of course be correct if only considering the top universities, but certainly not ALL universities. I think I showed that by posting sample statistics from various college sites. Now again the errors this person made were factual errors that could have easily been avoided. I read her other posts, not directed at me, and they were very intelligent. Why she felt the need to make up stuff when talking to me is unclear. Your use of sound bites from my posts is an even worse sin. Especially since one of my biggest complaints here is just that. People take stuff out of context. Most people here seem quite intelligent, and I question why they don't realize that on a blog such as this context is everything. Sound bites are part of our pop culture. You are obviously immersed in that. This is one of the reasons that we elect the politicians that we do. Not paying attention. Would you care to explain yourself in view of my criticism? Also, I would like to point out that not all of you have short attention spans or cannot understand text that is longer than one sentence. Several of you have contacted me privately, and have asked serious questions and haven't tried to engage me in rambling bickering. I think I have helped a few of them which is why I came here in the first place.
  3. I am sorry, but no one here has asked me, "Is this what you are implying?" No, they just go ahead and tell me what I am implying, and 90% of the time they are wrong. I do not have time to waste on that nonsense.
  4. First of all, I did not say anything like that. I don't know if you are aware but my kids have gone to the University of Connecticut and UConn Law School. UConn is considered the 19th best public University, the (I think) 52nd best university overall, and it s law school according to what others here have posted seems to be about the 32nd most selective in the country. UConn, to the best of my knowledge is not in the top ten in anything, although, I could be wrong. Nonetheless, UConn adequately served the needs of my family. We are not in a financial bracket that would ever get need based aid, and not going through high school eliminated the possibility of any of the normal merit based scholarships. Ergo, I pay full freight. Also, I strongly disagree with the idea that getting a "C" in a Community College or college course will destroy your chances of ever getting into an Ivy or better school. Having been in the alumni network of an Ivy league school, I know that is not true. There are plenty of good options for your 12 year old. Simply make a list of goals and resources. Make another list of requirements for each option. Then work out the best option.
  5. Why indeed should I rebut my own statement? I don't think that I ever represented here that what I was saying was a priori correct, or was an irrefutable truth. I thought I went to a great deal of trouble to explain that this was my opinion and my experience. I have no objection to being called upon to defend what I believe. I do object to being called upon to defend idiotic statements I never made and being told that those idiocies were what "I was implying." I strongly suggest that anyone who thinks I (or anyone else) is implying something simply ask them if that is what they are implying, rather than go off on a rant about how stupid or arrogant the supposed author of the statement is.
  6. Fine then that is what they should address. They should not make up things that I supposedly said.
  7. I think there is a real danger in paraphrasing people for rhetorical emphasis. You are doing everyone a disservice by falsifying what they actually said, and making up something that is absurd to put in their mouth. This board seems to be overwhelmed with the idea that this is the proper way to rebut an idea one does not like. Well, trust me, it isn't. Nor did I imply that not pursuing early college might be doing a child a disservice. What I actually said was, if the child has : 1. the intelligence, 2. the maturity 3. the focus 4. the desire to do early college then give it a try. There are answers to that of course, such as "We can't afford it." "We believe the child will be better served with a different approach," etc. An intelligent way to respond to this would be to quote it accurately and then state your own reasons why you disagree. The correct way is not to make up opinions to attribute to the author of the statement, to misquote him,. or simply to go on a rant over something he never said.
  8. I don't know if you are talking to me or if you are not, but I never said that. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are not talking to me. However, what I did was post an article about the huge number of recent college grads who were taking jobs that do not require a bachelor's degree. I also posted some average starting salaries from several schools which I believe shows that the grads from better known schools get higher salaries than the grads from lesser known schools. But I certainly never said what you are claiming, i.e., that only people who go to the top ten (or whatever) colleges are going to get jobs in their field. If you find out who said that would you let me know?
  9. Yes a few have. Very few, however, have given as detailed a story as I have. I agree with you that if getting something like a merit scholarship was of critical importance to you, early college might not have been a great choice. Bytheway, I would consider you an expert, not in early college obviously, since no one in your family seems to have done that, but in preparing kids for college. Not at all a trivial skill.
  10. I don't know. I guess that is a question the kids have to answer. Your kids sound fantastic. They are obviously doing great, but I don't think I would give credit to the public schools for that.
  11. I don't know. I guess that is a question the kids have to answer. Your kids sound fantastic. They are obviously doing great, but I don't think I would give credit to the public schools for that.
  12. I am pretty aware of what I said. and as I offered above, I will give her (or you) $1,000 if you can show me where I said that "Community College is the best of all possible worlds." Apparently you and others on this board have a shameless double standard. If you agree with what someone is saying you pat them on the back. If you disagree you object to their "tone" and make up stuff about them. I do not want any part of that.
  13. As I have said, if the kid doesn't care about the Ivy League, or other name college, then why apply. It sounds like she is doing very well. Isn't that all that counts? Just out of curiosity, she is not in Women's Basketball, is she? That is UConn's big sport. As for the legacy issue, I was in the Alumni Network of the University of Pennsylvania for many years. I have a good sense of how things work. Legacy is a nuanced attribute which can sometimes get you in and sometimes won't help you.
  14. But - and this has also been discussed may times on this forum - getting accepted to an elite university, at any age, does not matter at all unless you are poor enough or rich enough to attend. If the finances aren't there, and still won't be when a child is 18, then it would behoove the parents to have some other plans in place. Butler, you have said a mouthful!
  15. Why is it okay when other people take what I say and twist it, but when I object to that it is hostile? Here are some of the false and twisted statements Sarah made: .... But to say across the board that CC is best and high schools are worthless wastes of time is incredibly naive. I never said that. Furthermore, I am disturbed by the fact that you hand-waved away the possibility of young students getting low grades, and hence lower college (and high school) GPA's. I never did that. Whatever money was "saved" by shaving two years off my BA was paid for many times over in the end. Her experience, not mine. Also, yes, college seems to be today's equivalent of high school, but not everywhere. There are a handful of fantastic high schools out there (most private, some public) that offer a superior education to some colleges. Contrary to her implication that I did not know about good high schools, I had specifically praised Bronx Science, Central High and Girls High of Philadelphia many times. My intention with my own children is to give them a rich and full education, and not short-change them by chasing down a piece of paper at the earliest possible moment. Good for her. I said many times that education was my primary goal, not a "piece of paper." Again, she makes up stuff or takes things out of context that need to be left in context. Seriously, before you go around the internet saying that your way is the Best of All Possible Worlds I think you should wait until your kids are at least 30, and then ask them to give you a brutally honest assessment of their own education. I will give her $1,000 if she can show me where I said "my way is the best of all possible worlds." I am really sick of some people on this board who simply cannot read, or who won't take the time to do so. I am sick of answering the same questions over and over and having lazy people who haven't actually taken the time to read what I have said tell me what I have said.
  16. Ruth, I really appreciate your long explanation of both your family's background and your clarification of what you are looking for from me. I hope I can be of help. By the way, if there are things that you do not want to post on a public board, contact me for a private conversation as many people already have. It seems to me that your sister who was Valedictorian of an Ivy University at age 20 is the person you should be seeking advice from. She probably is very familiar with your family and can give you more precise information than I can. Anyway, you very clearly stated that you want to know what issues we struggled with as a family before we chose the path we did. Let me see if I can answer that. Both I and my wife have advanced degrees, I would prefer not to say what mine is, but it is at the Doctorate Level. We both are extremely focused on education. We both felt that the best thing we could do for our children was to give them the best start possible, i.e., the best education possible. Although I was born dirt poor, and I had a full scholarship to Penn, and I am by no means poor now, and the fact that we had enough money for just about every conceivable option was important in our decision making process. In fact we started home schooling only after trying both public and private schools, which we found to be clones of each other, with the same educrats everywhere. For that reason we rejected the private school route. In Connecticut we had no high school like Bronx Science, which might have been a solution to what we were looking for if it had been available, but it wasn't. After experiencing extreme frustration trying to find something in the marketplace that met our needs, we finally decided that there was nothing, and we decided to to it ourselves. My wife had the luxury of being able to stay at home full time to teach, to chauffeur the kids to what ever classes or activities that were available in the community and for home schoolers. We also had the luxury of being able to hire tutors, buy a piano and take piano lessons, set up classes at our house for our kids and other homeschoolers with hired tutors, etc. In other words we were intelligent enough to figure out what was needed and we had the wherewithal to do it. At the beginning, there really wasn't much in the way of struggling about the decision we made. We backed into home schooling. One might say we were forced into it. But as we continued along that path, it became obvious to us that there were certain things that we could not teach. Chemistry for example. Also subjects we knew very little about. Geology for example. We heard from another home schooler in our group, who was very enterprising, and she had worked with the Administration at Tunxis Community College to set up a Saturday French Class for anyone who wanted it, but the timing of which would greatly benefit the homeschooling community. Taking the class did not require any kind of admission test, one merely had to sign up and write a check. At the start, I held the usual stereotypical beliefs about community colleges, i.e., that they were glorified high schools. I took the French class with my son (my daughter was only about 8 then.) It so happens I lived in Paris for three years and my French was very good. From day one I could converse with the instructor, who was also from the Paris Region, and I quickly saw that she was unlike a lot of language teachers in this country, i.e., Americans who spent a year abroad and who spoke whatever language they taught with a heavy American accent. Our French teacher had a perfect Parisian accent. In learning a language, this is incredibly important. Anyway, my son took two years of French at Tunxis, and eventually branched out to out courses like Earth Science. At the beginning I took the courses with him, and I was shocked at how good they were. This was not a glorified high school. When she was ten my daughter started at Tunxis with a photography course. This broke her in to the idea of being at a school, which was very important. The rules were different from the home school. After about two years, I guess the decision you are interested in had to be made. My kids by that point had taken several courses at Tunxis. I managed to convince Tunxis to start a Latin Class, which they did and which IMO was quite good. About half the students in it were home schoolers. Anyway, at some point about halfway through the Tunxis experience, we did consider other options. We looked at Bard College at Simons Rock. http://simons-rock.edu/ This was a school that specialized in early college students. We talked with the admissions people there and my son interviewed with them. We did not apply, however, but they told us to apply and that we would likely get a merit scholarship. We considered this strongly, and came back to Simons Rock several times to just look around and talk to the students to get a feel for the place. Sadly, we were greatly impressed by the catalogue, but it seemed that many of the wonderful courses in the catalogue were in actuality only in the catalogue, and were seldom, if ever taught. So we gave up on Simons Rock. As I mentioned previously, my son was taking advantage of free courses at Trinity College in Hartford, which at the time was a very highly ranked liberal arts college. He was taking advanced Latin and Greek. He applied to Trinity college as a transfer and was conditionally accepted. The condition? We could not apply for scholarships. This was all by word of mouth, since I think there was something here that violated their own policy. Anyway, Trinity cost about $50,000 per year at the time. It was never clear how many of the Tunxis courses would transfer, and this was something we would not find out until he had matriculated. Meanwhile, we also investigated UConn, which was relatively clear about what would transfer there from Tunxis. I haven't mentioned this yet, but UConn has a very interesting Honor's Program. http://honors.uconn.edu/prospective-students/admission/ http://today.uconn.edu/blog/2013/08/uconns-incoming-freshmen-bring-a-wealth-of-academic-talent-high-aspirations/ UConn's honors program had a demographic that was similar to Ivy League Schools. Please read links above. UConn however does not have an Ivy League price tag. There really was no choice. My son was accepted into the Honors program, and although he entered UConn as a Junior, we requested that he live in the Freshman Honors Dorm, Buckley. They did what we asked. My son had a fantastic time among peers who were only a little older than him, and he was big enough so no one really asked his age. He graduated in two years and was accepted at UConn Law which we just considered a continuing part of his education. One word about my Alma Mater, Penn. Sadly, neither of my kids were interested. I am reasonably sure that both could have gotten in, since at the time, I had been very active in the alumni network for years, and had contributed to the school somewhat generously. Had they been interested, I would have been delighted. Anyway, I think I have outlined the issues that I struggled with. At no time were we ever overwhelmed with concern about the issue of top ten school vs community college/ state college transfer. One of the reasons was the Honors program at UConn. This is a fantastic program that I cannot say too much good about. And financially, the UConn option trumped everything. In addition, UConn does give preference to its own students at their professional schools. Was entering at top school ever a major consideration for us? For me,yes. For the kids, no.Since they were the ones attending, I guess their opinion outweighed mine.
  17. You are a good example of someone who either cannot read for content or who likes to put words in other people's mouths. I did not say half of the things you attributed to me, and I am not going to dignify your ramble into the existential aether with a reply. You are only TECHNICALLY an early college student, as I was TECHNICALLY an early college student. To claim your experience demonstrates what early college students will go through is both disingenuous and absurd. As I said, we had about 40 families following in our footsteps, and although I lost track of most of them, no one has come back to me complaining about the results. Perhaps your bad experience had to do with you, and not with early college. I personally know of several CC students who transferred to Ivy Schools, specifically Brown and Cornell. http://www.communitycollegesuccess.com/2012/06/from-community-college-to-ivy-league.html
  18. What I said was that big name schools command more money. Wharton is a big name school. MIT is a big name School http://web.mit.edu/facts/alum.html Harvard is a big name school http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-05-28/average-harvard-graduate-will-make-60000-their-first-job-and-other-crimson-trivia Compare those to the University of Colorado which is not a big name school.
  19. Colorado School of Mines is an ENGINEERING SCHOOL. And it is very specialized, just like Wharton. Of course it is going to have higher salaries. You said a a four year public university. Well since you seem to be in Colorado, lets look at the University of Colorado average starting salary: $40,000. http://www.colorado.edu/pba/aftergrad/
  20. I am not propagating misinformation. It is you who do not know what you are talking about. First of all, there is no such thing as a "History BA from Wharton." Such a creature does not exist, and never has. I suggest you Google Wharton then come back and apologize for your misinformation. Second, I would be interested in seeing statistics from whatever four year university you are talking about showing that the AVERAGE starting salary for all subjects at that University is $60,000. This is exactly the kind of post that I would normally ignore. And I will in the future.
  21. Wow! That is such a wonderful educational trajectory. Thank you for the insight as to how Oxford works. It is somewhat similar to the Ivy League in the USA, with a couple of important exceptions - as you hinted at, extracurricular activities tend to be looked at more seriously here. Also, although I have been out of the alumni network for some years, generally only one interview was required. Any time you feel like giving updates on what he is studying, I for one would be delighted to hear them.
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