I am not asking for your opinion about where my kids are educated; I am asking what you think about how CC classifies their workers. Filing an ss8 form does not mean my relationship with CC will end negatively . . . it is illegal and unethical to retaliate.

Stella, I am questioning whether CC workers are being classified appropriately. Based on the evidence, what is your perspective?

It is all very puzzling to me really. At times when I am thinking through it, I think perhaps there is a way to legitimize the IC classification and at other times, I think this could not be legitimate. So, I fluctuate. If I submit the form and the IRS says it is legitimate, I will be thankful. At least this discussion would equip those in CC with a healthy respect for everyone's rights as ICs. If the IRS says it is not legitimate, I won't be surprised and may have some penalties and back taxes coming my way:( I haven't compared it with Pampered Chef and others because CC seems to be exercising so much more control prima facie. But, perhaps they can justify that control to the IRS . . .. I just don't know.

For tutors it is three days, but for Directors. . . it is two practicums (one for Essentials and Foundations) and Director Business Training and then they have a Learning Pathways site that tracks what webinars you have watched . . .. Then, if you stop being a Director or tutor, they have a non-compete clause because you now know their proprietary information. . . Do you see why this is all very iffy as an IC classification?

This is a great summary of the rights of an independent contractor.

Continuing on from my last post . . . . If you are/have been a Director, were you ever informed of the gravity of classifying your tutors as ICs? CC may cover it - I don't remember so I sincerely wish to know from other Directors - are you being made aware of this from CC? Do you realize that if I don't file the ss8, someone else could or the IRS could do a random audit and my understanding is that CC could be forced to convert all ICs to employees. Or they could find CC above board but you as a Director having misclassified your tutors and you could be fined and have back taxes to pay. thegeyser cares about this because she is informed. I care about this because of my recent experience and I started researching the issue. You should care about this too! If you have a Director who has given you the freedoms due an IC in as much as she can within the CC set-up, call her right now and thank her! She is the most vulnerable within the CC system and the only upside for her is you and the others in her community who thank her for all she does and support her through the tough times. I am on her side in this!!! thegeyser is on her side! She needs you by her side as well so don't let her be uninformed and unsupported. Call her today and let her know that you are so thankful for everything she does:) and then tell her about this thread because she really needs to know about this.

Where does the electrician get their training? From the company or person who contracted them, or elsewhere? One characteristic of an IC is that they are trained in the task that they are performing for the company - no specialized training necessary. Another consideration of IC/employee is whether the job they are performing is integral to the business. CC communities could not exist without the Directors and tutors so they are integral. Don't miss the forest for the trees. Another consideration with respect to the practicums is this: CC needs Director/tutors. CC wants the Director/tutors to be trained well. CC mandates Director/tutor training. CC needs to make this training happen. CC pays their employees to make what they mandate happen. WRONG! CC approaches these same Directors/tutors to work the practicum as volunteers or for near volunteer wages to provide the training that CC mandates. It is very early in the morning but there is something not quite right about this scenario for a for-profit business. Again, iffy and I'd like the IRS to let me know if it is above board.

Wow thegeyser, you are truly a kindred spirit and I don't think much more needs to be said:) You summed it up beautifully. Thank you for publicly posting.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts, experiences, wisdom and moral encouragement on this issue! My experience is when a post like Stella's happens, the discussion goes downhill from there so if you would like to further discuss this, please send personal messages. I will take your comments into consideration when making my decision!

Thank you Stella. Had I not started from a belief in CC's guilt, I would not have started this thread. So guilty as charged. I'm looking for someone to convince me that I am mistaken.

I'd really like to keep the focus on my questions and not my emotional response so let me just tell you that I remained at the campus, helped as much as I could, and submitted my payment last week to continue doing CC in the Fall at the SAME campus. My campus, for the most part, stood behind me and understood why I did what I did and we are looking forward to next year. This is really a moral dilemma for me, not an emotional drama so please focus on my questions because it gets really tedious when intellectual questions and moral dilemmas are reduced to emotional dramas. (CS Lewis has a great read about that titled "Men without Chests").

This is true. In my case, the support manager took over in the middle of my year as Director. I hope that my situation is not repeated in this area - I am hopeful it won't be because I took a stand and resigned. I also hope this thread will help others who consider being Directors/tutors by letting them know their rights as independent contractors and that if someone feels that what CC is asking of them is a little much, your feelings could be legitimate. CC does not need to respect laws that protect employees from being exploited by their employers because they hire ICs.

I wouldn't say I am hacked off . . . I resigned in January/February. I am told it takes at least six months to get a ruling and I am getting others' opinions now so I can decide well before I actually have to file. It is interesting how much you assume when forming your opinion about my emotional response. Don't you find this an intellectually interesting dilemma? Shouldn't a business honor the tradeoff that if you want to control how someone does their job, you should be willing to pay for the privilege?

I am still interested in what those involved in CC would do in this circumstance. It seems to me to be a great moral dilemma to pose to a Challenge student, so what do you think?

Does anyone know if CC considers itself a franchise? A friend told me that the contract says that it is not a franchise but I am not sure if that is the case.