It is hard to discern brief interest from college/career ambition at this age. But I think the answer does depend at least partially on her ambitions. Ironically, the more she aspires to health career, the less important it is to learn human A&P now. It's actually not even a college requirement for medical school (I'm a doctor). You would likely love to satisfy her current joy in learning; I have a DD14 and if she loves something we ride that horse til it dies LOL. But there is such a thing as too much science. You can't go far in biology (human or otherwise) without some chemistry. I would suggest letting her finish the book by "auditing" it this summer (no labs or tests unless she wants, just read it for fun and talk to her about it), then do A-Beka or similar one semester health course, and do chemistry next year. If her biology love persists, 11th or 12 grade is good time for "advanced/human" biology, not AP, especially if she's not a "physics kid". Such a class is really an elective IMO, regarding college prep and admissions, except perhaps for nursing school.

Thanks, Monica! That is a good idea. We discussed doing DE US history fall semester with no English, then DE English Comp in Spring with no history. That gives him 2 high school equivalent "units" with only one more intense class rather than 2. As one example. Is that what you mean?

Thanks, wapiti! That hits a lot of good topics. Agree with much of what you said. Yes, same kid. Right now, math drives him, big time. As in, discussing complex number proofs and AMC 12 problems at dinner table. :glare: As I've asked or commented in other threads, we are trying to figure out where DS will thrive. It may very well be Letourneau, Grove City, Cedarville or dual degree program Covenant-Georgia Tech. No disrespect to any of those schools or others like them, but I think he's a almost a lock for those. But he wants to gun for GT as freshman, Carnegie-Mellon, maybe even MIT. My sense is based on his trajectory, ACT, etc., depending on next 2 years, he'd be competitive for GT, could push himself for CMU if he really wants it (summer math camps, USAMO qualify, more AP/DE, etc.), and almost no-one but patent-holder/national prizewinner/child of alumni or faculty should ever feel confident of MIT chances. :-) I'm gently setting his expectations in those directions, to guide his own motivation. I told him if he truly wants MIT, investigate what it takes and see if he wants to do it. Also told him it comes down to "for class of 2019, we want x homeschooler(s) from Mid-Atlantic; how many do we have applying this year? How do they fit into our overall class demographics of gender, ethnicity, income, religion?" It truly is a crap shoot, once you're "over the bar". NC State is probably our best state STEM option, and that's on his list. Admission there is not really a question, though he could save me a lot of money by pushing himself for scholarships. :-) I agree that the line seems fine for some of these "tiers" - 4 vs. 6 total AP/DE, or 2 ACT points, for example. But, to bring it back to the center of my questions - there's admission, then there's thriving (or not) afterward. I don't want to stress out our home for 2 years, then make a $70K one-year mistake, just because DS can "get in". But he might totally love a place like CMU. There may not be God-given clarity for a while. We don't believe God's will is a "dot" - there' only one right answer, but He gives us a path to walk in wisdom. We're just seeking that wisdom. Perhaps we "load DS up" for fall if he is willing, and see what happens. If he gets a lower grade or two, well, we probably have our answer.

Thank you, EKS. We agree; our questions are from hearts that are trying to be careful! He does push himself. The issue is how much to steer him. His ambition may be larger than his capacity. So I guess what we're after is similar to your concern: is some "pushing" (really meaning "loading up"; he's not resistant) helpful in terms of assessing fitness for what he aspires to do, or is the danger as you say - he does what it takes but ends up at a place where he won't succeed. We don't have the answers, so here we are on WTMF. :-)

I'm very thankful for WTMF community! I'm seeking wisdom from parents of any 2E kids who have experience with this scenario: 1) DS (or DD) homeschooling through high school to college; 2) highly gifted, loves learning, willing to work hard; 3) but is "low energy" (like many Aspie/ASD), needs plenty of down time alone; 4) considering pursuit of admission to top tier STEM colleges; 5) is very capable of the LEVEL of work that requires, but parents have doubts about ability to handle QUANTITY needed to be a competitive applicant; 6) Christian (student and parents). Ultimate goal is to most glorify God and benefit man, by best use of God's gifts. Specifics - DS finishing 10th grade. 11th grade is "make or break" year if he's going to load up on dual-enrollment, AP, etc. Given 3-4 subjects, he could handle all of them at a high level - math, science, writing, reading, foreign language - literally anything. His only time-consuming extracurriculars are Boy Scouts (starting Eagle project this summer), church service and youth group. He's not a kid with a spectacular "hook". Stellar academics and test scores, his ability to write quality essay answers on apps, and just being a good kid that adults really enjoy are his strengths. DS and I had a conversation about "big fish in small pond" at college, garnering more attention, opportunities, professor relationships, etc., vs. being around more resources and people as smart or smarter than himself at a top-flight place. He wants the latter. Dilemma: he will be happier the next 2 years if we don't press his curriculum too hard, meaning no more than 2 DE or AP classes at a time. I think he'll be happier long term (college and career) if we push him beyond his comfort zone for 2 years. He's not lazy, and doesn't have a traditional learning disability (he can read, write, type, etc. quite quickly); he's just inefficient and has a true neurological need for more down time than most. Our counselor believes DS is on the autism spectrum (though no formal diagnosis), but it's a close call. Any experience to share? Wish you had pushed a little more or less? Did he/she land in a college that is/was too easy or too challenging? If you did push, what effect did it have on your home? And one more thing - did you have DS/DD report to Student Services on campus for any "disability" assistance? We're starting to feel like we're obsessing/idolizing these issues. Once 11th grade starts, we won't have much room to course-correct.

Just another perspective. If your DS LOVES math, AoPS will potentially give him "the bug". Those are the kids AoPS is tailored to. And Intro to C&P and NT are those off-the-path, crazy-math-not-even-college-students-take subjects that, while not requiring calculus, are IMO best saved for later; they will be more rewarding the more math-competent your son is, and if he really likes it, they can become absorbing. We used Intro C&P and NT for a full-year of HS math after precalculus, rather than start in calculus in 10th grade. It happily engaged him for a couple of hours a day, though much of that was inspired "independent study" beyond AoPS, and he's the kind of kid who settles for nothing less than "all blue bars" in AoPS Alcumus (AoPS vets know what I mean). We did add a weekend AoPS seminar for AMC 10 prep in early 2017. Those 2 classes in particular are very valuable for contest math prep. So if he intends to take AMC 8 or AMC 10 and wants to do his best, then it might be helpful to fit those two 12-week courses in. That IMO would be better prep than taking their test-prep specific courses (thought doing both would be even better). Enjoy the journey! We're AoPS fans. Only downside is if we're not careful, it's my DS' addiction. Better AoPS than video games...

That is a good point, Sebastian (a lady). I talked to DS about it and I think he wants "all" of US history. Perhaps this is why some schools give 6 credits for a 5 on AP USH? This point is one reason we're vacillating between DE and AP online. So, credits/unit equivalents aside, this is another factor for sure.

Alrighty, interim update. I chose a selective state school and a high-quality Christian STEM school. I called and spoke to an actual human in both admissions departments. Yay! My question: Does a one semester DE freshman English class from a 4-year college count as one of the required 4 "units" of English required for admissions consideration? Georgia Tech - yes Cedarville - yes Caveats - 1. My question was very specific, as indicated. I did not inquire about two-semester DE classes, math, sciences with labs, foreign language, etc. I am assuming this would hold true for history or other social sciences. This is a busy time of year for these folks as they await acceptance responses, wade through wait lists, etc. I didn't want to pester them or complicate the issue. 2. No guarantee was given or sought regarding transfer of credit or placement out of anything.

Also, we are planning to use online DE from a 4-year Christian university, not our local CC or even our hometown 4-year university. And no summer classes; my son would revolt! Boy Scouts and summer vacations are too precious. :-)

Thanks for all the continued replies. I do want to make sure we don't drift too much more away from the question at hand. I get the concerns about GPA manipulation, rigor, etc. We wouldn't use DE for math or anything else that would be a non-AP course typically available at a public school. For instance, not precalc or physics with algebra, but yes to Calculus 3, physics with calculus, freshman English, US history instead of AP, etc. I took some classes at a CC in FL back in the day, and unless it has radically changed, I am aware that the instruction quality and the students are very much a mixed bag. I will contact a few more colleges on our list (some highly competitive, others Christian and less competitive but solid), and follow up here. I think the counsel to thoroughly document and explain is very good, especially for schools not as used to homeschooled applicants. For instance, I recently read MIT welcomes homeschooled applicants but they make up 1% or less of applicants and enrollees, and I think I saw zero as the number enrolled in a recent class. So they might need lots more 'splainin' from Ma and Pa than Cedarville or Liberty would. :-)

This is all very helpful. And with our local high schools going to the block schedule of 4 "one-year" classes per semester, I think this gives us the leeway to have DS do DE but not have 6-7 total classes at once. In other words, if he does his math, science, bible and German classes all year, he can do DE English one semester then DE US history in spring. That's 5 classes per semester with the rigor of 6+ (his math will be AP Calc BC).

Thank you! We're in NC. State schools aren't high on DS' list but an option. For the private universities he's considering, I think I'll contact them. I did call Carnegie-Mellon today and spoke with an admissions counselor. She said that, for DS' schools of interest (Comp Sci/Math and Engineering), a 3 credit DE semester of English WOULD count as one of the 4 years of required English for admission.

We're navigating the numerous options for grade 11 this fall for our oldest (uncharted territory for us). This occurred to me: 1) AP classes are a year long. 2) Colleges TYPICALLY give 3 credit hours for successful AP test scores (there are exceptions, depending on college, class and AP score). 3) Dual-enrollment college semesters in an equivalent subject (let's say US History) TYPICALLY are 3-credit hours (4 for sci/math). 4) Colleges TYPICALLY have minimum admission requirements of numbers of years in different subjects, with 4 years English/lit, 3 years social sciences inc. 1 of US history, 3 years math, 3 years science inc. 1 year biology and 1 of physical science, being a common set. So...my question. Do colleges consider a 3-credit college DE semester course equivalent to a HS "year" of that subject, regarding satisfying their ADMISSION requirements? I'm guessing "no". The reason I ask is that this would free DS to load up on more STEM electives, if we could "knock out" US history, English, etc., in a semester of DE rather than a year of AP (we know these classes are harder; not inferring it's an easy "knock out"). It's not particularly important to us how many college credits he starts with at matriculation, or what classes he places out of; our main focuses are DS' candidacy at highly competitive STEM schools and/or academic scholarships at moderately competitive ones, and continuing to foster his joy of learning. Let's not branch off into discussions comparing AP and DE, cost, rigor, competitiveness of admissions, etc.; there are other threads for those. Let's assume DS can handle any option, cost is equal, and a substantial amount of high-level coursework is important to his ambitions. I'd love to hear from any parents who have walked this path all the way to college enrollment with their kids, and learn how DE semesters were considered by colleges - again, not for credits earned or class placement, but for fulfilling the ADMISSIONS requirements of colleges for years taken in a subject. I hope that makes sense. I'm willing to email a plethora of colleges to ask if needed, but thought I'd start with my wonderful WTMF community. :-) Thank you!

Gr8lander - thx. Finances aren't an issue. In fact, I think ds would do well with the 3-2 program and enjoy the "top notch" last 2 years while being able to spread his wings and mature some in first 3 years. And it seems to me that some of the larger merit scholarships will be more in reach for him at small Christian schools han at big secular schools. Kinsa - that's so encouraging! Igbu and creekland - helpful replies! Thx so much!

Thanks again for all the replies. To share a little more, ds is 2E in an Asperger-ish way. He's very rigid in his thinking, doesn't naturally seek out social contacts, is fairly immune/oblivious to peer pressure, very confident in his worldview. Academically brilliant in everything, but struggles with time management, and is "low energy" (thus, a place like Caltech or maybe even GaTech might not be good for him due to the "grind"). So I'm not overly worried about "corrupting influences", but want an environment that will not result in even more isolation in college than will already happen on its own. He will probably benefit from brothers and sisters in Christ who will seek him out and help him be accountable. Hope that makes sense. I don't think we're being overprotective (he can hold his own in almost any debate/apologetic). Just don't want him miserable. He's generally happy with his own company, but that's with his family around to rely on for understanding and support.

I get you, jdahlquist. Good point. I went to a very large state college for undergrad when I was not a Christian. If there was an active ministry or faith community on campus, it was far underground. But i know from many friends that NC state has good options.

Thx Calm37! DS's former youth pastor went to Taylor but I didn't know they had engineering. Samantha - by MRS, do you mean what we call "pre-wed major"?

Thx Kathy, for that link! Some good info, although unfortunately no listing for many of the colleges mentioned in this thread, or of some regional secular schools that might be of interest to us (Clemson, NC State, VaTech, GaTech).

Thanks again for ongoing replies - all helpful! TwoEdgedSword - yes, CU is Baptist although it was originally Presby, Grove City is as you say. Covenant is solidly Presby. We're ok with any of that, as long as the bible is believed to be inspired and authoritative. Closest nutshell you could put our beliefs in would be "Reformed Baptist". I love our PCA and OPC brothers and sisters and wouldn't avoid a college for being solidly Presby, as long as ds was treated with respect for differing on some things. Presby has always strongly believed in higher ed, and so lots of colleges are (or were at some point) Presby-leaning.

Creekland, thanks. Agree with your points. I think that's what makes dual-degree options appealing. 3 years at small Christian school, then 2 years at engineering school with lots of choices and better facilities. Those 3 years will probably be critical maturation time for ds.

Thanks again. I will check out a few of these! Berry is in Rome, GA, about halfway between Atlanta and Chattanooga. Local students here would say it's not "as distinctly Christian" as Liberty or Covenant. Liberty is very big. It does have some (not all) engineering degrees. Grove City looks very intriguing; they are definitely passionate about freedom and political conservatism but also more distinctly Christian than Hillsdale, it seems. I'd heard of Letourneau and Dordt, and appreciate the recommendations. I don't have a lot of interest in big "Christian tradition" schools like Baylor or TCU; I think staying at NC State would be cheaper and lots of our local kids have gone there and thrived in faith. It's just really big. If any of you has a 2E kid, you know why that's a minus. :-)

Thanks for these replies - lots to research! Anyone familiar with dual-degree programs like Berry or Covenant College-Georgia Tech, in NW GA? Or Wheaton with Illinois Tech?

We have a 10th grader who is STEM-focused and highly gifted/2E. We are evangelical non-denominational Protestants who value strong academics but don't want our kids at a nominally Christian school where the authority and inspiration of the Bible will be regularly challenged. Where are like-minded families leaning for college? Right now, we are leaning toward EITHER a "distinctively Christian" school with dual degree from good engineering school OR a secular school large enough to have good campus ministries, healthy churches and like-minded friends. By "distinctively Christian", I mean faculty must abide by some statement of Christian faith, or similar commitment. But those colleges are not known for engineering programs. Cedarville is an exception. We are in NC and would prefer to be in one-day driving distance. Also, are son is 2E and will probably do better at a small, nurturing school, especially the first couple of years. It's fairly common for colleges of all sizes to have "student services" for kids on the autism spectrum these days. Sharing any thoughts/experience with that would be helpful. Thanks for reading the long post!

Ditto almost exactly fourisenough, but to reiterate: our 8th grade DD did MM5-7 in 5th-7th grade. She showed her readiness with the easy-to-do Math Minutes 8 worksheets during 2016 summer. But we still had doubts about her algebra-readiness. She is a very good all-around student, although she doesn't see herself as math-strong; she's the kind of girl who, when I was in high school, never made any brain bowl teams or drew attention, but then at graduation she was the valedictorian LOL. Anyway, we took the plunge with Derek Owens algebra (her older brother had used DO for geometry and pre-calc). She has a 98 average in honors algebra, and has only one more chapter and the 2nd semester exam to go. So - we have seen our 8th grade DD excel in a thorough algebra class (with objective non-parent grading!), after completing MM7, and with no other dedicated pre-algebra course. Hope that helps! P.S. virtually all algebra courses begin with a review/pre-algebra module

*post deleted by user*