Processing speed as measured by the WISC is largely determined by the score of the coding subsection (I'm no expert, so there may be other aspects to the measurement, but coding is the big one). You can google that coding subtest to see what is involved. It requires good hand dexterity, since the task is to copy certain figures in the correct boxes. Problems with fine motor skills and handwriting can definitely impact that score. But it also measures the thinking process, as the student looks at the test and figures out how to do it. So for some students, improving the fine motor skills can improve the processing score. And it seems to me that the metronome activities would work on both the motor planning of the hands, as well as the processing in the brain, as the child thinks and responds during the activity. I'm just thinking through it. DS13 has a coding score in the less than first percentile. But he is a talented drummer, so I don't think the metronome work would make a difference for him. He also can play bass guitar, but his fine motor skills are so poor that he can't twist a twist tie and finds tying his shoes to be tedious. He is an enigma! If fine motor is an issue, you could work on those skills. It may or may not improve the processing speed score when tested in the future. I think the general consensus is that there isn't a surefire way to "fix" it and that accommodations should be used by the student -- extra time for testing and projects, note takers or copies of teacher's notes in class, various ways to help with scaffolding the writing process (writing issues are common with low processing speed), using text to speech or scribing, etc. Occupational therapy or other fine motor and/or body awareness work is worth trying, to see if might make a difference.

Another book that is excellent is Smart but Scatteredhttps://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=smart+but+scattered . The authors identify 14 (I think) areas of executive function, so it is a good overview of possible areas of difficulty, and it has evaluation tools and checklists to identify the specific areas you are dealing with. It's not specifically for autism, but it contains good information that you can build upon. They have a version for teens (not sure how old your son is). Some of the tests psychs do in evaluations do measure areas of EF, but there are so many life skills and functions that can be impacted. I think if you read through the list of EF areas in that book, it will provide you with some clarity. It's probably more helpful for you to think of his EF deficits in terms of what you see in daily life, instead of trying to start from the test scores. Test scores can be really helpful in some cases. We learned a lot about DS12's EF that we didn't know before he was tested. But there are so many practical parts of EF that you can identity and work on addressing, just because you see that there is a deficit in the life skills. And those can be obvious areas to target.

I'd love to take an Alaskan cruise, so I'm listening in. I think the balcony decision really depends on each individual traveler. My parents had a balcony and enjoyed it, but then Dad went on a cruise with us (to a different beautiful location) in an inside cabin, and said he didn't miss the balcony at all. Our family only uses the cabin for changing clothes and sleeping. Otherwise, we are on deck and out and about around the ship and can pick any view that we want, without having to pay extra for it. If I had an endless pot of money, I'd love a balcony!! But since I don't, I'd rather save the extra expense and put it toward the next vacation.

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

We were homeschooling when my kids were that age, and we chose, for most of them, to wait until age 6 to consider them to be in kindergarten. I did work with them before that. Working on fine motor skills, as suggested above, is perfect. Play preschool games. Read aloud a lot. Teach nursery rhymes and folk tales. Color and do puzzles. You can engage in these activities through play, but I think it's also fine to have him spend a little time each day sitting at the table with you. Just five minutes of doing an activity page or maze or cutting and pasting something from a Kumon workbook. Keep it fun! But work a little on his ability to sit and pay attention. He doesn't have to be perfect at this, but give him some practice, so that when you do need him to sit and work for a time in a couple of years, it is not a big adjustment. It can be helpful to provide a lot of structure for children with attention and behavior issues, so it may benefit him to establish a regular daily pattern, if you don't already. Four is young. And starting K when just turning 5 in August is also young!! I think it is perfectly fine to work with him as you can,and as he is able, and wait until he is turning 6 to call it kindergarten. Some of his difficulties may just be because he is young, but keep note of the things that he seems to be having trouble with. I think it's interesting that you say the doctor suggested autism at age two and then "ruled it out" the next year. How was it ruled out? Just as the doctor's opinion, or did he do some kind of testing? Frankly, pediatricians often miss the signs of these kinds of issues. Ours did, even though we brought them up at the annual appointments. If you suspect autism, don't believe anyone who rules it out without doing a full and complete autism evaluation. It takes an expert to figure it out.

elfqueen, How much does a regular movie ticket cost in your area? Cinemark advertised the same deal to me, but it wasn't worth it. I think our regular movie ticket price is $8.50, so paying for one free ticket for $9 does not make sense for us. Plus, I usually go to the early showings, which are only $5. There must be plenty of markets where the ticket prices are higher, for this deal to be worthwhile. I hope it saves you a lot!

Obviously people have different opinions about this! But my sister (in OH) built her house with a dining room but no room for a table in the kitchen, and she thinks it was a mistake for resale purposes. They are in the process of renovating their kitchen to include a breakfast bar with seating (since they can't fit a table). Realtors and builders say that buyers are looking for larger eat-in kitchens where they can also entertain, and they don't care to have a separate dining room.

Sdel, I can understand how tired and frustrated and overwhelmed you are. I want you to know that even though you feel alone at home, that you can find support here on the LC board. The posters here have really been helpful to me. Here is why I have great empathy for you: DS13 has NVLD, ADHD, SPD, ODD, dyspraxia (lots of fine motor troubles), trouble sleeping, and issues with social skills. From what you have written, I suspect those same things apply to your DD. DS also has learning disabilities in math and reading comprehension, and Tourettes. ASD was ruled out by his first neuropsych, but only with an incomplete screening. We most likely will seek a more complete autism screening soon. We had DS's initial evaluations done just as he was turning 10. He had exhibited issues for his whole life, but that was the age that it all came together and was super overwhelming at home and seemed impossible to manage without help. I was exhausted and at my wits' end. That is fairly common with NVLD, by the way -- many kids are first diagnosed around fourth or fifth grade. It's also not surprising that your psych did not diagnose the NVLD, because it is not in the DSM. Many psychs follow the DSM exclusively, so if it is not in there, they don't acknowledge that it exists. If you have not already, you can find a lot of information about NVLD online. I am fortunate to have a supportive husband, but otherwise, I deal with many of the same issues that you are. Others on the LC board do, as well. If you keep posting here, you may find a community that can offer you some emotional support, as well as posters who have found ways to address some of the issues that you face and may have good suggestions to offer. :grouphug:

I wouldn't consider 1.5 hours of the meds being in effect "working." Sometimes people can be misdiagnosed with ADHD, when the behaviors are actually caused by something else. Or the current medications are not effective. Because someone is already prescribing meds, it can be a good place to start by working out a different dosage or type of medicine. Because you can accomplish that much faster than getting new evaluations and diagnoses. I can't tell by your response if you have adjusted the meds yet or not. It took trying about five meds and quite a few months before we found what worked best for DS13. Our pediatrician worked closely with us for a good period of time to figure it out. I think the issues you face go beyond adjusting the meds, but I think it gives you a starting place.

I had no idea that competition had begun, since the opening ceremony is not until tomorrow night. I guess I'm more out of the loop than I thought. How did I not know this? I like to watch skating, and I'm sorry I missed it tonight.

I'm sorry things have been so rough. Have you talked with the doctor about exploring a different ADHD med? There are many options, and we found that some worked dramatically better for DS than others. Guanfacine and Clonidine are two that often make people sleepy. DS is never tired during the day, but when we tried guanfacine, he was sooooo tired; it didn't work for him. Now he takes Clonidine at night; it was added to his med regime for a specific purpose, but an added benefit is that it helps his sleep. Taking a stimulant during the day and guanfacine or clonidine at night is not an uncommon combination for people with ADHD. Since you aren't sure the meds are working, it is worth talking to the doctor about trying another type or adjusting the dosage. Another option might work better for her.

Sweetpea, I'm going to throw out some ideas that we (meaning his school intervention team, as well as us as home) use with DS13, who has NVLD and SLD reading comprehension. DS13 can understand a straightforward, linear narrative. He can often tell what happened in the plot. However, he gets tripped up by figurative language, flashbacks, unfamiliar vocabulary, lack of background knowledge, inference, and some character relationships. He tends to remember details that interest him -- for example, what a character had for lunch -- so if you question him, it may seem that he is really remembering what he read. But he does not make the connections that help him to intuitively understand the overall meaning of the text. He may remember what the main character does, but he cannot tell you what the significance or meaning of it is. At younger ages, fiction tends to be more straightforward. We found that he hit trouble around the third grade reading level, when plots, character, themes, and story structure become more complex. At school, he is currently in a grade level language arts class, so he completes the grade-level work. His IEP comprehension goals, however, are set at a lower level. He is in 7th, and his goals are set for 6th grade material this year, which means in his intervention time, his special ed teacher works with him on selections at that lower reading level to teach skills. He happens to be in a private school that offers a lot of intervention, and he also gets help from his intervention teacher with his regular classwork. Some of the intervention methods that we use with him and that have had good results include: * Reading each selection multiple times. He reads it with his class, reads it aloud with his intervention teacher, and listens to an audio version, as well. Usually I also read it aloud to him at home, and I stop to explain all vocabulary, figurative language, inference, etc. * Pre-load the vocabulary and background knowledge. Learning the vocab words before reading the text makes a big difference. An example of background knowledge is that when DS had to read some selections about the Titanic last year, his intervention teacher brought in many other resources about the Titanic to help him understand what was going on. * Highlighting the main idea in a paragraph. His intervention teacher says she starts off every session with him by having him practice finding the main idea and then the details in whatever reading selection they are working on. This is a distinction that comes naturally to NT kids his age, but he has to work at it. * These issues also affect his writing, when he is meant to research or collect facts and collate them into a paragraph or essay. Because he doesn't automatically see connections between the ideas. He can memorize facts and spit them back out, but he has trouble connecting them together to compare or contract them (for example). My favorite book of ideas for reading comprehension is https://www.amazon.com/Strategies-That-Work-Comprehension-Understanding/dp/1625310633/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1518115939&sr=8-1&keywords=strategies+that+work+teaching+comprehension+for+understanding&dpID=518IbDnPElL&preST=_SX218_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_&dpSrc=srch The general idea is that when comprehension skills lag, strategies for understanding the text have to be taught explicitly to the student. And they have to learn to use those strategies themselves. This is a tricky thing, because often students won't use the skills if a teacher is not assigning them to (DS13 has this problem -- he will highlight the main idea, for example, only when the teacher tells him to). I hope that is helpful. DS13 has improved his explicit comprehension over the last few years. He really can't understand inference, no matter how much they work on it. Which will become a bigger issue with each increase in difficulty as he gets older, because the kind of literature used in high school English classes is always going to be hard for him. Auditory input makes a big difference for him. He understands a lot more when he listens to an audio version or has a selection read aloud. I hope that is helpful. Reading comprehension is a tough disability to tackle.

I don't know much about APD, but we did wonder for awhile if DS12 had it, so we had some initial screening and asked some questions. One of the things we did was see an ENT and his team at our children's hospital. That doctor actually told me that many physicians believe that APD is not a real thing and does not really exist. He seemed to be in that camp himself. So I'm not surprised that there is controversy about how to treat it, as well. Ivy, I'm glad you've found something to try, and I hope it makes a world of difference!!

What a great update!! Way to go, mom, for pursuing all of the testing and figuring it out!! I hope that her ability to pay attention, hear, and learn all improve dramatically now. Now you know what kinds of intervention and support she needs, which is awesome!!

Oh, by the way, when we met with the schools to talk about high school, DS was only in sixth grade. And we was not enrolled in any of the school districts (he was in private school). I worried they would not want to take the time to meet with us, since we were asking far in advance. But no one had any problems with setting up meetings with us. We did, however, already have an IEP in place, which is different than your situation. But I bet they would be fine with meeting with you.

One accommodation that hasn't been listed yet is getting copies of teacher's notes. DS13 does not adequately copy notes that are written on the board. He would also have a hard time taking notes quickly enough in a class where the teacher lectures and expects the students to take notes and use them to study with later. He also gets to have any study guides with the answers already filled in, because he can't create a study guide for himself that is then useful for studying. (He will write answers on the wrong blanks; fill it in with incorrect information; leave parts of it undone, etc, because his handwriting and processing speed are issues). When I was in high school, every class required note taking while the teacher lectures. Every school is different, so it's worth asking how the classes at your local school are conducted. These days, teachers may post their notes online automatically, so that note-taking is not required. It's something to ask about.

Would he be entering 8th grade or 9th? We took our son's IEP to several school districts and had meetings with the special education personnel to discuss what supports and intervention each school would offer him. All of the high schools were willing to meet with us to give us a tour and talk it through. What they had to offer was not identical. Talking to them in advance helped us figure out what high school might look like for him and was really helpful. (We actually chose a school that is not our own district, and we are planning to move -- what the schools had to offer were different enough to make a move important for our family). I'm not saying that you should interview several schools and think about moving. But you may be able to take your documentation to your local high school and ask to have a meeting with someone to see what they have to offer. There will be certain ways that each school does things. They may have supports you may not have thought to ask for. It's worth a try. You can also ask them if they would evaluate him for a possible IEP, or if they would just take your documentation and have a team of people write a 504 for him, without having to go through the whole IEP process. Do you think he has any learning disabilities that will require specialized instruction? If so, that would require an IEP. If he just needs accommodation and support, they may be able to just write a 504. If you think he needs special education (working with an intervention teacher), don't let them talk you into a 504 instead of evaluating for an IEP. But if what they offer in a 504 is enough support, it could save you a lot of hassle.

We recorded the episode and missed the last bit, too. I also saw Kevin by the tree and then the recording ended. :cursing: DH says that I can watch it on nbc.com, but I haven't tried it out yet. Just wanted you to know.

Sweetpea, I want to respond more to your thread, but I am juggling some other things in life at the moment. I'll try to write more in the next day or two. In the meantime, you might do a search of LC threads about comprehension, or just scroll back through the pages until you see threads that discuss it. I'll try to pop back in soon.

You've gotten a lot of good advice. I just thought I'd boil down a few things for you. 1) The public school is required to evaluate for learning disabilities by federal law, including for homeschoolers. 2) If you enroll in a public charter, the charter would be responsible for developing an IEP. 3) If you enroll in a private school, it can go many ways. Public schools have to evaluate private school students. But many private schools do not want to work with the public schools. And many private schools will not accept or serve students with IEPs. Some private schools will have their own version of intervention services. So it completely depends upon the school. The reality is that most private schools do not have a mission of helping those with learning disabilities. It can be really hard to find one that will in our area. 4) If you enroll in a private school, it would not be that school that would evaluate and write the IEP. In our own personal case, the school district where the private school is located ran the evaluations. But then the school district where we are residents (not the same one) took that info and wrote the IEP. So there were 3 schools involved in our IEP process (private, plus two publics). This is just how it is where we live; it may be different in your area. If you want my opinion, since it has taken so long to get the public school to agree to evaluate him, I wouldn't want to backtrack and refuse to let them do it. Be sure you understand the legal ramifications of not allowing them to evaluate -- if you opt out, can that cause problems down the line? I don't know. But you should know, before you make the decision. Read up on the laws of your state (go to your state department of education website). I have called my state department of ed to ask them questions about IEPs in the past, and they have been super responsive. Ask your state how becoming a homeschooler in the midst of the IEP process will affect things. To be honest, your school doesn't sound like one that is easy to work with. If they are going to get their hackles up if you switch things up midstream, it may make them more difficult to work with. Schools can make the IEP process a nightmare. Not to scare you, but it happens. So it's good to try to have a good relationship with those on the IEP team. It's true that you have to update the IEP yearly. But that is generally a much easier process than the initial writing of the IEP. So I would vote to go ahead and do it (not that I really get a vote :p).

Yes! I am hyper sensitive in every way, including empathy (though not towards rule-breakers ;) ). I remember being appalled at the poor behavior of other students when we had substitute teachers. I used to go up to the subs after class and apologize for the horribleness of the miscreants.

Here is the thing about changing schools or returning to homeschooling. That may be the absolutely correct choice, because it sounds like this school is not a great fit for her. However, changing the environment will not change HER. She is still going to struggle with these tendencies, and problems will crop back up. So, yes, think about whether it is good to switch out of this school. But don't expect that will solve everything. Still seek help from professionals. And I don't want to pile on, but I think considering autism would be helpful. It can manifest differently in girls. Being unable to see things from another perspective -- sometimes called Theory of Mind, and sometimes called perspective taking -- is a common red flag and can be at the root of black-and-white thinking. Social skills therapy can target this as an area to work on. People can have problems in these areas without having an autism diagnosis, as well.

forty-two, I'm not going to quote your posts, since they are long, but I agree completely with what you have written, and I appreciate your thoughts. If asked whether I wanted to be right or happy, I would have to pick "right." Because that is the moral choice. It was always really important to me to do the right thing, even if it was not the popular thing. I actually thought that put me in a morally superior position to others. Whyever would someone abandon the correct way in order to gain approval from others? I agree that being a Christian played into it for me, because the Bible teaches that we are going to face persecution for righteous beliefs. Now that I'm older, I think I am more compassionate and more able to choose a loving response instead off a judgmental one. I can care about others, even if they don't follow the same moral code that I do. I still have to work on not being judgey, but I can see gray now, and not just black and white.

I never understood why the other kids didn't like me, but I can guess. I always felt more mature and more comfortable with older people. Teachers loved me. I think it was probably a vicious cycle. I was shy and had a hard time joining into play with others, because it felt awkward and as if they didn't welcome me. I think I just seemed set apart to the other kids and hard to get to know. And then I was teacher's pet and always behaving. I did generally make one friend each school year, but every single year, they moved away, and I had to start over the next year. I didn't like it when people didn't follow rules. And I just think they could tell and thought I didn't like them. I may have told others not to do wrong things, though I don't remember doing that other than with my siblings. I do remember on the first day of kindergarten, I went out to recess and joined in with my neighborhood friend. G turned to me and said in a snotty tone, "Just because I'm friends with you at home doesn't mean I'll be friends with you at school." Bam. No friends now at school, and I had to start trying to make some, which seemed hard for reasons I never understood. She was always popular throughout school, and I was always lonely. She didn't make my social life different from then on because of that comment; I just think it highlights the difficulty. There was something about me that other kids my age didn't like. I think because I was so "good" and a perfect rule follower, that must have given off an attitude of judgement towards others, though I don't remember doing that purposefully. I do know that I always felt that if X was the right thing to do, I needed to do X, and everyone else should do X, and people who were doing Y were wrong. And probably "bad." They probably could tell that I thought that. :sad: I don't think anyone would think I'm on the spectrum, but I sometimes wonder if my dad is. I think he and I both have some social difficulty traits. I still find making friends and some other social things to be difficult.

At that age, I was a very black-and-white thinker. I knew right from wrong and was a rule follower, and I thought everyone else should be that way. I thought I had the moral high ground. I think I only tattled at home about my siblings. But at school I had a lot of trouble making friends. I was an introvert, but I was sad and lonely. Not just one year at school, but throughout my school years. I finally made a lasting friend in seventh grade and became part of her friend group, but I wasn't ever truly well liked, and even in high school, I felt many of my "friends" didn't really like me. I often felt adrift, unconnected, misunderstood, unliked. I was often left out and normally on the periphery of my friends' social activities. I really didn't get it, because I knew I was a good person. I didn't feel happy socially until college, when I found some real friends. But even then there were times when I felt those same old feelings. I carried them with me, and they would crop back up again when my college friends didn't meet my expectations. Not meeting my expectations didn't always mean they were doing something wrong or purposefully alienating me. But I wanted my friends to be like me, make similar choices, have the same moral opinions. Because I knew I was a good person who knew what was right. When my friends didn't line up with that, I had a hard time. Now, I was not outspoken when I felt a grievance (except for tattling on my siblings at home), because I was a shy introvert. I would just feel the hurt inside. But I also am sure that people detected my judgey attitude, and that that is what kept them from seeking me out as a friend. How did my parents help with this? They didn't. Mom saw it, but her response over the years was to tell me I was too controlling (without helping me learn better skills), suggest I try to be a cheerleader to become more popular :glare:, etc. I think the very worst thing that she did was to constantly tell me, "No one likes a tattletale," when I would go to her with a problem with my siblings. I had a mean older brother who was bigger, stronger, and picked on me. I needed adult help to deal with him, so of course I tattled at home. Now, that phrase has the ring of truth, right? It's an accurate concept. However, I already knew that people didn't like me, so when Mom said it, it stung, and it was a rejection of my (immature) requests for help dealing with a problem. Forty years later, I still hear her voice saying that to me, more than any other thing I remember her saying during my childhood. So yes, teach that concept, but don't use that phrase! So what would have helped me? I really, really, really, really, really, really, really wish Mom would have gotten me some counseling to learn how to manage my feelings. And I also wish I could have had the kind of social skills classes that are available today. I'm not sure they were around in the 70s. And I probably would have not wanted to go, because I thought I was right about everything and didn't need the help. But the adult Me wishes I had had it. I do, by the way, have a lot of anxiety. I did as a child, and I still do. I'm not sure it shows on the outside to others, because I still try to appear that I have everything all together. My intense need for everyone to do things the right way also affects my parenting and my relationship with my kids, by the way. Often in a not-good way. I think getting help when I was younger would have had a lasting impact on the way I handle things in life. So please consider social skills therapy. :grouphug: ETA: The other thing my mom told me that was not helpful (but was meant to be comforting, I'm sure) was that people probably didn't like me because they were jealous that I was so smart and did well at school. Saying that they were jealous just reinforced the idea for me that I was standing in the place of righteousness and not really doing anything that needed to be corrected.