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Ad astra

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  1. On 12/21/2023 at 8:55 PM, mirabillis said:

    We homeschooled K-12 also and when my oldest DS got into his ED school... I agree, it was such a relief and such a validation of everything we as homeschool parents have done. Congrats!!! 

     

    3 hours ago, mirabillis said:

    all my kids are 2 years apart... and there are (9) of them! ACK!!!!!!! i'm only on kid #3!

    Wow that's amazing! How do you do it?? And what helped your oldest 3 stand out to get accepted into top schools? 

  2. 2 hours ago, cintinative said:

    I ended up not using that book mostly because I was overwhelmed by trying to determine what problems to assign.  There are hundreds for every chapter. Even the teacher manual was not that helpful for reducing the number of total problems.   I will PM you the assignment guide that WHA used which may help.  (ETA: Theirs is an honors course) By the time I got their problem list, I had decided to use Brown's which is more familiar in format for us.

    We covered limits very briefly in Alg II and Precalculus.  

    I think you can use the grading scale you choose as long as you are consistent.  There is a thread in the motherlode I think about this.  Generally I weight 0.5 for honors, 1.0 for AP/DE.  I know there are other ways, but I also report an unweighted GPA so the colleges can recalculate as they see fit. 

    We do math year round so I am a bad person to respond to the other questions.  

    The WHA assignment guide you PMed me is SO helpful! In the guide, their honors course assigns 25-30 problems in average for each lesson. Think we can reduce the Exercise problems to half, instead of doing ALL odd-number problems, then we can definitely finish the whole book in a school year with room to take more time on some difficult topics. He rarely makes mistakes, so I don't see any issue with reducing the assignments. 

    Also, the WHA course finishes with Analytic Geometry and doesn't cover chapter 12 Limits and chapter 13 Statistics, if it uses the same text, but we will try to do those as well if we have time. Now I have a clear picture of the expectation and how to achieve it. Thank you, cintinative! 

    • Like 3
  3. My rising 8th grader has been studying precalculus since the beginning of this month. He initially started with Thinkwell Precalculus, but soon insisted to switch to a textbook approach. The textbook we are now using is Larson's Precalculus with Limits, 3rd edition. I chose it because it was the cheapest used one, whose odd-number solutions are available on the CalcChat and LarsonPrecalculus websites, I could find then. He is doing it independently and it has been going really well so far as it has been mostly review of algebra 1&2.

    Here is how we do it. Day 1: He studies a lesson and examples, solves checkpoint problems (about 8-10 each) on his notebook, and self-check the answers with the LarsonPrecalculus solutions. Day 2: He solves the first half of odd-number problems (about 25-30) in Exercise, check his answers with CalcChat and studies with the worked-out solutions. Day 3: He solves the other half (about 20-25 including word problems) in Exercise. And he moves on to the next lesson, next work day. He spends two days on each Review and one on Chapter Test. It takes about 1 hour to 1 hour and half each day. 

    I calculated and, with this pace, it's going to take about 250 more work days to finish the entire book this way. He is highly motivated and hard working, but I don't see him finishing it within this school year, which is fine with me. We school year round but take weekends and holidays off and take two-week vacations a couple times. 

    I took integrated math at high school in another country, not precalculus, so please bear with my questions.

    1. What is required to label a homeschool course as "honors" on a homeschool transcript? Should we take a little longer than a year to finish the entire book? Would it be enough for that label? Or too much? There seem too many number of lessons and problems for any school to cover in a year, but I am not sure what a typical honors course's expectation is. 

    2. Is the "Limits" part supposed to be included in high school honors precalculus? There is a textbook without "Limits" by the same author, which I suspect is the one for a regular class, but I am not sure.  

    3. Our local public high school doesn't have honors courses nor gives weight for CC DE. Only APs get weight to be 5.0 and all the other courses are on a 4.0 scale. Neither any high school level classes taken prior to 9th grade nor any CC DE classes outside of the school offerings go on their high school transcript. Should I follow their policy for my own homeschool transcript or do the conventional way of including all high school level courses with weight on honors (4.5) and DE/AP (5.0) courses? 

    Any insight would be appreciated. 

  4. Thinkwell math courses from Pre-algebra to Algebra 2 are complete programs if you do everything including printable worksheets. The exercise problems on the worksheets are identical to the ones in Holt McDougal textbooks (by Burger), which offer enough practice for most students. Both of my kids (one gifted and the other autistic) preferred Thinkwell's layout and instructor's style to DO's.  

    My older kid is currently taking Thinkwell Pre-calculus and we are bummed there are no longer any worksheets included. We added a Larson textbook to it in order to supplement it. 

  5. Khan is good for that purpose.

    Similarly, Thinkwell offers Essential Review courses: https://www.thinkwellhomeschool.com/collections/essential-review-courses/products/algebra-1-essentials.

    If you want more challenging problems, AOPS has a free self-grading practice program called Alcumus: https://artofproblemsolving.com/alcumus

    IXL lets you pick and choose topics and exercises to review: https://www.ixl.com/math/algebra-1

    • Like 1
  6. 19 hours ago, Arcadia said:

    This framework looks mostly identical to the topics covered in Algebra 2 class that my first kid, a 7th grader, is currently taking in PS and Thinkwell honors Alg 2 that he is using to supplement the class.  Does Precalculus overlap a lot with Alg 2?  Even a lot of additional topics that are not included on AP Precalculus exam are covered in honors Alg 2.  It's almost like a repetition (am I missing something?) and this makes me reconsider our plan for the next school year. 

    Algebra 2 is the highest math course his junior high school (6th-9th) offers.  There are just two students in this class, him and a 9th grader.  My 7th grader is excelling and getting high A's from this class so far.  The school said they would bus him to high school for next year but unfortunately we just moved to another town (he's still finishing this year there).  I was thinking of bringing him home this fall and homeschool for 8th grade doing just reviews and possibly taking his first ACT, instead of sending him to a new middle school that doesn't even have anything beyond Alg 1, so that he can take Precalculus as a public high school freshman.  After looking at the contents of AP Precalculus, however, I feel he would be more than ready to take it this fall.  I'd have to homeschool him anyway since no schools around here offer precalculus for a 8th grader and he's too young to go to a CC. 

    I'm also from a country where every high schooler was required to take Calculus regardless of their intended college major, just at a different level and depth depending on their path, but that's now changed and only STEM-pursuing students take Calculus in the last year of high school.  Others choose Statistics and Probability.  Before then, high school maths are all integrated--no algebra, geometry or precalculus-- and Precalculus topics are definitely taught in high school, not in college.  

  7. We have used 6th & 7th essential courses, honors pre-algebra, honors algebra 1 and honors geometry so far. I would categorize Thinkwell math as "standard," right on par with average PS regular/honors classes. Like any self-paced programs, it is what you make of it.

    The video instructions by Dr. Burger are excellent. The examples in the notes and the practice problems in the worksheets are same with the ones in the Holt textbooks written by him. We did every problem, both online and in printable worksheets. My kids wrote them all down and showed their work in the notebook. With videos and detailed worked-out solutions, they rarely needed my help or other human support. I mostly just graded the worksheets. 

    The online practices/quizzes/tests are based on multiple choice questions at a basic level. I've heard some people do the online portion only but, IMO, doing so would make the course too easy and light. 

    To add more challenge, we pulled out some problems from texts like AoPS, Jergensen and Dolciani when needed.

    We heard DO is also solid and looked into his youtube videos, but my kids much preferred Dr. burger's (seeing his face with other visual demonstrations) to DO's blackboard teaching style) and insisted on continuing with Thinkwell.   

    • Like 2
  8. Thanks for asking this question! I’m all ears to the suggestions, too. Think I’ve read most pinned threads on the high school board multiple times. Learned a great deal, esp. from the older threads when this forum was more active with many veterans who sent their kids to selective U through homeschooling and generously shared how they did it in detail (some of they are still here, and I’m grateful for everyone who posts and shares her/his wisdom and up-to-date information for us with younger kids). I’ve found wealth of information here, a lot more and better than in much larger FB groups. 

    Still, the fear of homeschooling high school is real. Can’t bear a thought that I might close some doors for mine if I homeschool through high school. Think our location in the rural Midwest makes it a bit trickier as well. When my anxiety hits me, I read the pinned threads and start breathing again. 

    • Like 1
  9. 53 minutes ago, mirabillis said:

    All my dd's college decisions are in - thought I'd share.

    Accepted:
    Stanford (REA)
    UC Berkeley (Regents scholar)
    UCLA
    USC
    Vanderbilt
    UNC Chapel Hill
    LSU
    Alabama
    Arizona State University
    U of South Carolina
    U of Florida

    Rejected:
    UC San Diego
    UC Santa Barbara
    Harvard

    Congrats! Would you mind sharing what kind of ECs she's done? I am currently debating whether to send my academically-accelerated DS back to PS for EC/leadership/award opportunities. Need some inspiration. 🙂

    • Like 1
  10. 11 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

    I don't disagree that a single, objective tool would help. I disagree that the ACT and SAT can *ever* be it when standards vary so much nationally. WE DO NOT HAVE NATIONAL CURRICULUM OR NATIONAL STANDARDS. So students who are as prepared as they can possibly be from states/localities with weak standards will seem comparatively underprepared DESPITE having similar talents/abilities. SAT/ACT aren't IQ tests but folks want to act like they are. I don't understand why that's such a hard concept to grasp. Maybe it's the numbers vs. humanities gifts thing.

    But isn’t that why SAT or ACT doesn’t test on specific content knowledge? These tests only test very basic reading comprehension, writing(grammar) and math (up to Alg 2) skills that can be developed through lots of reading, doing well in math classes at any high school or with Khan Academy and some free SAT/ACT prep resources. SAT2 used to test subject knowledges but they are gone. I don't see SAT/ACT as IQ tests but something achievable with practice. 

    • Like 4
  11. 6 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

    @wendyroo Being academically smart (gifted, or whatever word one prefers) is a privilege. Privilege is bad. Therefore those kids need to just say thanks they are smart and shut up. That’s the prevailing attitude here. 
     

    Only the academics seem to be treated this way. No one says there should be a ban on music auditions and sports try-outs that wealthy people can sign their kids up at a young age or an end to pricey selective K-12 private schools that are clearly favored in college admission. And you don’t hear the “I don’t test well” excuse there simply because it’s not acceptable. The only time I see parents in my school district’s Facebook page complaining “You shouldn’t post this. Average students are important, too.” is when the district posts to praise academic excellence (ACT 36, NMF, etc.) while nobody questions when the school’s athletic team and individuals are celebrated. This prevalent entitlement and “participation trophy” mentality in academics is absurd.

     

    I hear a lot of talks about how unfair a standardized test is for students who don’t test well and with disabilities. Well, life isn’t fair, or unfair equally to everyone. One of my kids is autistic and has a huge test anxiety. At home, with free and inexpensive resources, we are woking slowly and steadily to overcome this weakness over the time and it takes dedication and hard work as much as good grades in schools do. Honestly, the ceiling of SAT or ACT is so low that it’s not going to be nearly as difficult as participating in any group activities for her. School grades vary greatly from school to school and teacher to teacher. We need at least one objective tool of college readiness assessment. Even if it’s not perfect, I think these tests do well in assessing the very basic academic (reading, writing, math) skills that are required to *not fail* in college and it’s only one small piece of the whole admission process that I'm not sure why there’s such a big push back in this country. 

    • Like 12
  12. 17 hours ago, Slache said:

    @EKS @Sneezyone @Ad astra

    Thank you so much! I almost didn't ask, because OF COURSE the concise isn't as good! So glad I asked. So, is this a 2 year venture? And I still need the 11th volume of the original for the source texts? Where do I get the student guides? Heck, where do I get the books?

    I got all my books (the 4-book set and the K12 American History guides) used from Thriftbooks and Amazon. I'm not so familiar with US history, so for me the K12 guides are indispensable as much as the SOTW guides were. Of course, these are not as high quality as the SOTW AGs... but better than nothing I guess. We didn't sign up for the K12 Independent Study online program. We just read the book following the lesson plan and do discussions, assessments and some written assignments/activities in the guide.

    We also have the Human Odyssey set and the K12 Intermediate World History guides for the next school year and will do the same.    

    • Like 1
  13. Just throwing in another idea if you can't find a solutions manual of a traditional textbook at a reasonable price...

    Thinkwell's Algebra 1 course comes with printout worksheets and fully worked solutions for every problem. The problem sets are identical to the ones in the Holt textbook and the videos are done by the author, Dr. Burger. (Caveat: Doing the online multiple-choice practice/quiz portion alone would make the course too easy and light; the worksheets are what make it meaty, IMO.) You said you don't need videos but they, along with the full solutions, really helped my ds firmly grasp concepts and correct the wrong answers on his own. As a former engineer from East Asia I'm very confident with math but rarely had to help him myself other than grading his works. 

    However, we used it (the honors version) as a main curriculum. The worksheets have about 1/3 of the problems that are in the Holt textbook and I can't imagine doing all of them in the book. I think doing AoPS AND a traditional textbook/curriculum both would be a LOT of work taking a ton of time and might be overkill. We dropped AoPS after pre-algebra. We didn't find it necessary for us because, while my kid is gifted and good at math, he doesn't LOVE it. He is not the kind who'd enjoy spending hours on solving one hard olympiad problem. And opportunities for math competitions are scarce in my area anyway. I've also seen some who focus so much on higher thinking skills and challenges but overlook or reject much needed basic practices and end up leaving holes in the foundation. Not saying you are the case, but for us switching to a traditional honors course was a better decision.

    If you want to stick with AoPS, I agree with the suggestion of Khan Academy from above for a quick buildup of basic concepts.    

    • Like 1
  14. You can purchase Foerster's Algebra 1 solutions manual at https://www.rainbowresource.com/product/033404/Algebra-I---Solutions-Manual.html?. Sorry, just saw that it's also out of print. No worked solutions for Foerster's Algebra 1 at Quizlet, either... 

    Dolciani's solutions manual is more tricky to find as it's out of print. Used copies are rare and pricey. But you can find the step-by-step solutions for most problems at Quizlet

    • Like 3
  15. 23 hours ago, Vintage81 said:

    Yes, except that mine is this 2011 edition.

    https://www.amazon.com/Holt-McDougal-Larson-Geometry-Student/dp/0547315171/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=larson+geometry+2011&qid=1638655410&sr=8-1

    My impression is that this one (written by Larson) and Holt (by Burger) text are pretty similar. (I have both in Algebra 1.) Both versions have been published under the merged company (Holt McDougal) since this edition. The pages are typically colorful and busy. 

    For Jurgensen you can take a look at how the inside looks like here: https://www.rainbowresource.com/product/046637/Jurgensen-Geometry-Student-Edition.html. Much less crowded page layout, straight to the point and supposedly more challenging than other PS textbooks with lots of proofs and constructions. (Correct me if I'm wrong. We haven't used it yet. For some reason, my kid balked at the look of it.)

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  16. My oldest has been taking Thinkwell's Honors Geometry course this year. The video instructions are done by the author of the Holt textbook (Burger), which are great and very helpful. I believe the extra worksheet problems are identical to the ones in the textbook. You can print out the worksheets and worked-out solutions on each lesson. IMO, doing the online portion of the practices and quizzes/tests based on multiple-choice questions alone makes it too easy to float through on the surface without retention and not rigorous enough. The worksheets make it proof-heavy and really check their mastery. 

    I also have a set of McDougal Littell Geometry text & TE (by Larson) and a Jurgensen's text on my shelf in case we need additional practice or review. Larson's is a standard PS textbook just like Burger's and its TE is relatively easy to find at a reasonable price. Jurgensen's is out of print, so harder to get an used copy of TE or solution manual, but most of its worked-out solutions are currently available for free on Quizlet. 

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  17. On 10/30/2021 at 10:45 PM, Farrar said:

    Most would rather see AP or don't have a preference. But AP is a standardized curriculum and they like that.

    On 10/31/2021 at 1:24 PM, Farrar said:

    The AP CLASS matters a lot in admissions. It doesn't matter if you take the AP test or not. The class itself is important for admissions. You cannot call an AP class AP unless your student is in a CB approved course or you're doing a course audit at home.

    The AP TEST is also important in admissions, but at many colleges, it's less important than the class. The test scores are all that matters for getting college credit.

    20 hours ago, Farrar said:

    The student who takes the AP class gets a good boost in admissions from having a rigorous schedule whether they take the test or not.

    We're not there and have no experience of APs yet, but I'm just curious as I'm doing research for our next step. I understand AP is more standardized, but the actual rigor of the online AP classes (for example, Acellus vs. PAH) also varies, right? Acellus (aka Powerhomeschool) looks appealing on the surface because they offer a broad range of AP classes that are CB approved at a very affordable rate. However, I wonder how their format of short videos and multiple-choice quizzes would adequately prepare any student to score high at AP exam. And I've heard it's very easy to earn an A from their courses without retaining much. But they are still CB approved and can be marked as AP on the transcript. Would colleges know or care about the differences of the AP online providers? If a student doesn't take the AP exam or report the score, how would the rigor of the class be validated for homeschoolers? Would the Acellus, PAH or home-brewed AP class get the same boost in admissions in the end?

  18. 16 hours ago, kiwik said:

    You know what they say about the gifted ones doing well without help? That is true of high achievers and hard workers.  It is not true of gifted kids.  Gifted is more a special need and if there is funding for other special needs their should be funding for gifted.  I want people with Downs Syndrome to be helped reach their fullest potential and I want the same for kids with super high IQs.  Both can contribute more and have happier lives that way.

    I see your point and, yes, that should be the purpose of the special needs and gifted programs. As a parent of the kids who had both kinds of IEPs at PS, however, I can tell you the IEPs were not helpful--obviously, if they were, I wouldn't have given up on them and be homeschooling now. Not sure what kind of special needs services or "help" for the gifted you meant but my DS was pulled out to play chess or Mindstom lego or puzzles for the gifted IEP sessions while missing out on specials. For the rest of the school day, he had to do the same grade level academic (busy)works with his classmates, not learning anything. It would've been much more helpful if the school allowed any above grade level acceleration or offered any meaningful academic support or advanced classes with that funding for those who are capable and advanced. My 2e DD's experience at PS was similar with worsening anxiety.

    And my kids absolutely needed my help and guidance to become responsible and hard working. Good habits and work ethics are not born but nurtured over time.  I understand not all gifted kids are performing well and they need help from school, if not from parents. 

    I may have made myself sound like all work and no play type of person but it's not true. My kids are very social, self-content and the happiest ones I know. They are thriving with freedom and flexibility in homeschool and having plenty of outdoor play time and rest. I don't put too much emphasis on their giftedness (high IQ) because I do want them to reach their fullest potential without using it as an excuse to slack off or comparing to others. And I'm glad I had no idea about mine until late.   

  19. I didn't know I was gifted until high school when I took an IQ test and scored the highest (in the HG range) in my class. But it didn't do or mean anything for me because in my home country being gifted or having a high IQ is not nearly as valued as high-achieving and hard working. I did graduate from my high school as a valedictorian, went on to earn an engineering degree and a master's at one of the top 3 universities in my home country because I was self-motivated and worked really, really hard for years. To me, what I was born with--innate talent or intelligence--is just a bonus and potential indicator than didn't really matter much to know or tell anything about my life trajectory. I had to prove myself through consistency, diligence and dedication just like other people do. 

    So it baffles me when I see so much of the discussions in the gifted ed communities of US are focused over the identification of "true" giftedness regardless of achievement level and many of the gifted and talented programs are currently getting eliminated because many of the qualified students are supposedly high achieving, but not "truly gifted." IMO, high-achieving students also deserve to take advanced classes at their level in those programs and their achievements through honest effort and tenacity should be equally recognized and supported. I believe students should be assessed based more on merit and performance than just IQ or race or other factors, and receive the appropriate level of education accordingly, not solely by age. I hoped it would happen when son was tested HQ at PS and qualified for a gifted IEP but unfortunately what it offered wasn't enough, which led me to homeschool. In my homeschool, giftedness doesn't get discussed because we don't see it as important as other values I listed above. 

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