But how does you child know it is "donkey" instead of "donky"? Just memorization?

Spelling bees.

Thank you. That is extremely helpful info!

So you dictate "monki"? How do they know not to spell it "monky"?

Is there a rule for this or is the "ey" ending treated as an exception that just has to be memorized? How are those word pronounced for think to spell?

Thanks. That is super helpful - just the kind of firsthand experience I was seeking. Just out of curiosity, how would the child know to spell donkey with "ey" instead of just "y" like baby?

You might also want to consider usin the WISE Guide from SWR for the dictation in place of Ayers.

Ok. I guess I am not far enough into learning about it to have gotten to that part. What gave me that false impression was the following paragraph from this link: http://www.shalomranch.org/Comparison.html SWR has a different method for teaching the rule pages to primary students. They have a special log book where the student fills in the necessary word and then a place for the student’s sentence at the bottom. WRTR suggests teaching the rule pages using the block board or chart paper to primary students; the student does not do any writing for this part of the lesson. WRTR feels that the written part of rule pages for the primary log book is too advanced for a child this age. The child will be concentrating on writing the word, as opposed to paying attention to the lesson. WRTR has the older student writing the rule applications in their log books. SWR feels that the primary student needs practice in the format and can handle this amount of input. I must be misunderstanding. What is the child who does SWR writing during the spelling rule dictation?

See Ellie's response in this thread. It states the rationale behind the Spalding method of saying "i" for spelling: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/215216-wrtrother-spalding-based-methods/?p=5638543

That is what I suspected as well. But truthfully, I don't think this would be an issue for very long, because kids would figure out fairly fast that words usually aren't spelled with an "e" at the end if the sound is a long ee. The might spell baby "babe" at first, but then I think they would remember not to do so after being told once or twice. But what's to keep them from writing another phonogram that says "e", such as ey, ee, ea, ei? Would rules cove that? On the other hand, if you teach it as the original Spalding method (short i sound), yous still have issues. You have to contend with the fact that it could be a "foreign" word like taxi that ends in i. Am I right or am I missing something Ellie?

and this: http://ilovetefl.wordpress.com/2013/04/18/teaching-past-simple-vs-present-perfect-simple-with-cuisenaire-rods-a-sample-lesson-and-reflection/

Found this and thought I would share: http://sandymillin.wordpress.com/2011/03/22/cuisenaire-rods/

Oh, now I feel REALLY stupid. I misread your sentence and thought that you were saying that Sanseri would think that spelling the word "education" would change the pronunciation that word. I wondered why you said "y" and not "i". I went back and read what you really said, which of course makes sense. Sorry - I need more sleep :tongue_smilie: That chart is awesome though. Thanks for that. Honestly, I was asking what program she thought was more effective for spelling simply b/c she said she does not feel that spelling rules really work. That concerned me since Spalding, SWR, AAS all seem to be rule-based. I thougth maybe she favors a completely different approach like Apples and Pears. Anyway, I see your point about choosing the best program for my individual child. I know he still needs some phonetic awareness work b/f we can attempt to do any more blending or decoding than we have already tried. I know I want to do SWR. I am just trying to make decision about the phonogram before I start to really drill them. It is hard for me to know what will work best for him yet because he is still so young and we have done so little formal learning. One thing I can say about him though is that he likes to discover things on his own. So we have chosen a mix of C-rod w/ Mathematics Made Easy/Miquon and RS for math. Not sure how the discovery approach would work with phonics.

Well I know that the purpose is ultimately to read, write and spell. I was just thinking I would not be using readers until my son was writing the spelling rules and doing quite a bit of the dictation. I am so new to all this. Perhaps waiting too long on the reading is not a good idea. Right now he only knows the single letter phonograms. He just turned five last month.

Ellie, can you speculate about why llamamaloca might have regretting adding the ee?

Thanks. This helps me understand better. I thought you waited a long time to start reading typically.

What do you find most effective for spelling?

Thanks. But I was under the impression that it is first and foremost a spelling program, and that reading comes out of that after. Am I mistaken about that?

Sanseri's stance is that spelling education, where we teach them the "y" is saying /E/, is actually shifting the pronunciation. Can you elaborate on this? It seems to me you just say "a" and then "sh" and then "un". Where would the "i" be anyway?

lamamaloca, would you mind elaborating on why wish you hadn't introduced the ee sound for i and y? I am trying to make a decision about this issue and it might help me.

I see your point. I also see their point about preserving the original English language, using old dictionaries, etc. I think some people are drawn to the history of our language and tend to gravitate toward old-fashioned/classic things in their homeschool, while others are more pragmatic and thinking about what their kids will encounter in today's world. That's just my opinion though.

Bab-i (like in lick), not Bab-eye. Either way it sounds weird though. SWR/Spalding people don't say the words in every day conversation that way. They tell the child, "We spell it 'babi" but we say it 'baby' " The child comes to memorize that way I guess.

Don't feel dense; it does seem odd indeed. Spalding and SWR use "think to spell." I think "babi" would have been the original pronunciation? I think they feel that if you make phonogram changes based on pronunciation, it would be endless b/c of the many variations in dialect/accents. I honestly don't know all the reasons they have chosen not to add the long ee sound. I know that I am going to do the Spalding/SWR method and just need to decide what changes, if any, I want to make to their phonograms before teaching them. The long ee to "i" and "y" is one of the changes I am considering. I am leaning heavily toward adding the ee sound, but I just wanted to hear if it had caused any problems for people in the past? See this post: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/215216-wrtrother-spalding-based-methods/

That's correct.

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