I felt bullied/attacked. Perhaps that was not the intent, but we will just have to agree to disagree about the tone of judgement/condemnation I perceived. People have expressed that they felt empathy for my son, so it is not surprising that they might have felt upset with me. But I'd rather not go on and on disagreeing about it. What you said makes sense about people who have posted and their passion. But if you are passionate about something and want to convince them, honey catches more bees... it is hard to even hear the message when one feels accused. It simply puts one on the defensive. I agree about the need to remember that kids are their own people and not an extension of us. I struggle with that a lot and have to continually remind myself of that. Many people have posted that I need to relax. I think that is true to a large extent, if for nothing else than the fact that my own reaction makes things worse. But I know that I know (intuition) that there is something wrong and that ignoring and waiting will not help and will only make the habits more ingrained. I started the thread to figure out what it is exactly that needs to be done, and there is obviously a strong consensus that insisting that he try one class of any group activity would not be the answer.

I think there is a great deal of wisdom packed into this. I want to give it more thought before I respond. But I am definitely going to try the stop and ask him idea.

Thanks :)

I like what you said about reframing the perspective. I have noticed that most of the time when something feels very urgent, it is unduly fear-based. I do agree with using what works for him. I feel that we normally do a pretty good job at that. He is a challenging child. I love him, and I'm not trying to be down on him. But some kids are tougher than others to parent; I was one of them.

I didn't call anyone a bully, which I would consider character language. And I do feel very bullied by some people who have responded, especially those that have acted as if they would like to be my child's advocate, protecting him from my supposed emotional abuse. There are others who have posted that have shared some of my views, but no one has criticized them.

Yes. We do plan to do that. Perhaps that would be enough for him.

Well I didn't post the entire heart to heart. I was not expecting it to be critiqued or I might have included more. I wrote about the gist of it, which is that he is scared.

I guess I really don't understand what would make you or anyone else think I am not considering the advice I have been given? I have "liked" almost all the posts and have responded to many. I also don't understand what mold you think I want him to fit into? If you mean the mold of following a group when the group is doing something positive, then yes, I suppose you are correct. If you mean the mold of a martial artist or a child who is good at extracurricular activities, that is not the kind of parent I am. I don't enjoy that kind of thing very much, and I am not a "soccer mom" type who lives through her kids achievements; at least I don't think I am. What do you mean by "what you're doing?" All I have done is take my child to watch a class. He didn't want to join in, and I didn't force him to. Then the only other thing I did was start a thread to ASK if I should insist that he participate in a trial class instead of just watching. That is what I meant when I said I was feeling judged and accused. What have I done that is not "appropriate"?

I will take that into consideration. It is possible that my oversensitivity has colored my perception. What character critical language have I used? We have been home too much and are becoming isolated. We are considering TaeKwonDo, gynmastics (one or the other), a nature walk group and a once weekly co-op.

Albeto, looking back at my original post, I do see that it comes across as negative toward my child and devaluing of his unique personhood. Like I said, it came from a place of utter exasperation and raw emotion, including anger. It is hard to see the other side of it in that post, to see the love I have for him and the unique bond we have. It was the love that led me to post it. If I didn't care, I would have just done whatever felt good to me. I guess I forget that this is not a support group for parents of kids with behavior problems, so it's not really a good venting place. I am dealing with some post-partum depression right now that does affect my judgement at times. I did say I would try not to be defensive, but that is very hard. I also did say that it is a sore spot, if you will recall. It's kind of ironic because I have been saying that people need to be more careful about how they word things, and I suppose I wasn't careful at all with how I phrased my first post.

Okay. I can see your viewpoint and concern for my child, though you know very little about him or me. But my experience as a social worker, therapist and just as a human being tells me that you don't support a child outside the context of his family, and his mother, not him, was asking the question. Attacking me does not help him. I did not post and say "Help me figure out a way to force my child to do this!" I don't know what you are saying about looking for help to force my child. I posted "I am struggling. What should I do? Should I force him?" It was very open-ended, as I have really been perplexed about what to do and didn't want to go on auto pilot and hurt my son. I regret posting it now; it was not wise at all. My post was not met with criticism by most. It was met with people respectfully saying "I wouldn't force him." I don't consider that criticism. Only certain people posted belittling things. I admit I am quite sensitive, but it was comments from those people that hurt. I did not have to ask for advice and knew that it could open me up to criticism, but I want to better our family and so I risked it. I guess I was not as fully prepared for the responses as I thought. Perhaps I am too thin skinned for social media. I think you are spot on about the rewards/consequences. I have been thinking about this a lot lately. If you read all my posts in this thread, I think you will realize that I don't blindly accept pure behavioralism. I am working toward intrinsic motivation and away from control. Please don't assume the worst of people - parents or children. You know, even if I was the kind of insensitive parent you seem to think I am, I don't know how you would expect me to change by making me feel like a scum bag parent.

To respond to your post, I think you may be right about not living up to my image. My son has many of my own traits that I had hoped he would not inherit for his sake. If you mean not living up to some image of my perfect, obedient son, that is not true. Honestly, I don't know what I would do with a super easy kid lol! Those kids get on my nerves a little b/c I can't relate to them. I actually like a kid with some spunk. When I say "fiercely independent" I say it with affection. I like that about him to a degree. But it can be a problem in a parent/child relationship or any relationship that requires him to obey an authority figure. The kind of obstinancy I am talking about definitely fits the diagnostic criteria for ODD. It is the kind of thing that has really driven many a good, solid parent batty! I am not opposed to spirited children. Please don't misunderstand me.

Of course I know there is more to dealing with autism than a social skills class. I worked as a case manager with kids on the spectrum. I have taken all the advice very seriously and am taking it all into consideration in my decision making process. What I expected was kind and sensitive remarks from people taking both sides, and I have received those. I don't mean to imply that I haven't received support; I have! What I was not expecting was condescending, judgemental comments from others that feel like bullying to me and assume the worst of me. I don't have a problem at all with hearing from people with different viewpoints; that's why I asked. It's all in the way that viewpoint is expressed. Perhaps I was being naive/foolish and expecting too much. Anyway, I am in a very tough emotional spot right now, which is why I was seeking advice. And this has ceased to be helpful to me at this point and is starting to do real damage. So I think I will leave the discussion now before it gets any worse. Thanks again everyone for your help and honesty!

Thank you. It really is about the individual child, and it is easy to lose sight of that. I remember how concerned I was when he talked later than my neighbor's child. I laugh at that now; it seems so silly. But I could still be guilty of doing that in other ways, such as with regard to his emotional maturity.

Force is simply the word that made the most sense to me. I asked "Should I force him?" in my original post b/c that is the word that came to mind. I'm sorry that it seems ugly to you. I wasn't guarding my words when I wrote it, because honestly I was in a state of raw emotion and hoping to get support and not criticism and judgment. Any time a parent tells a child to do something and then enforces that with rewards/consequences, etc., I would call that force. Telling my child I will make him like it is ridiculous; he certainly has a right to his own thoughts and feelings. The force I was considering is telling him that Mommy and Daddy have decided that trying the class (not signing up, the trial is free and brief) is a good thing for him so that he can truly know if it is something he will enjoy and that he does not have to take the classes if he doesn't like the trial.

I agree that my response to his behavior is probably not helping the situation. Thanks for that insight. I do not agree that I do not have an understanding of child development. I am aware it starts with me - I think my posts reflect that. I also think my posts reflect that I have indeed listened carefully to every response, even the insulting ones, such as yours.

I did the same thing in softball, collecting flowers in the outfield. I understand what you are saying about your daughter. When he says nothing, it doesn't bother me as much. When he does say something, and it's mean or disrespectful and HE KNOWS IT, that does bother me. If he has a disorder, that would not make his behavior any less rude. Kids on the spectrum need to learn acceptable behavior as well, which is why there are social skills classes for them. It's just that we can be a lot more understanding of why it's so hard or even impossible for them. I appreciate your advice from experience. I agree that I may regret it, which is why I posted this. But I may also regret not giving him a gentle push, which is why I have been conflicted. I do think I am going to have to let go of my fear of labels and do the eval.

homeschooled. did participate in church preschool 2 days a week. didn't like it at first and had major issues but learned to love it and really grew in many ways. can't afford it right now.

SO helpful!

Thank you all again! A couple of responses I have received have come across as quite condescending and judgemental, but most have been extremely helpful, even when I didn't agree 100%. I knew when I posted this that I would be stretched and challenged, and I welcome that. Like my son, I am an extremely sensitive person, so it is always a risk for me to make myself vulnerable enough to seek help.

I must respectfully disagree. A five year old is not too young to have character problems. Of course, the expectations for them have to be very different, but that doesn't mean I can't have any. My son's recent rude behavior is simply unacceptable to our family. It is not unrealistic for me to expect him to have manners in public or to follow along with the class/group when the teacher/leader instructs him to do so. I am not talking about a social anxiety issue only.

I meant books about grace-based parenting, the ones you said helped counteract.

Yes. I have to be honest with him that he could get hurt. Probably not worse than the rough housing he does with his sister, but he still has deserves to know that. Now that the hurting issue has surface, and I know that he is pain sensitive, that gives me even more pause.

What books would you recommend?

Well I see your point b/c there are things I changed later in life. It was much harder, though, after the habits were ingrained. And yes, I like what you said about not everything at once. I do hold him to a higher standard than myself at times. I think we could benefit from me "overlooking" a lot more things, like Proverbs says.