Joyful Journeys
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Posts posted by Joyful Journeys
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On 10/21/2020 at 4:57 PM, Lecka said:
(Whispers) I don’t think a week is a long time. Probably not what you want to hear! I think give it longer before thinking it’s really stuck.
As long as it’s a pleasant time! I don’t mean if he is getting frustrated.
Sorry I’ve been away from this, my husband is getting a new job out of town and we’ve put a lot on the back burner and took a mini vacation before he leaves.
It’s not pleasant, I can see him shutting down.
I wonder if there is some way we can practice this in a different way?I think it’s something like 8 or 9 times trying to get through the same procedure. I liken it to the fact that if he were being tutored 2 times a week that would be a month of exposure to the same topic kwim? Is it typical to spend months on a procedure?
I guess I just don’t know what to do in the meantime. It’s hard when he has been reading CVC for a long time. So we are treading water when I feel like he could at least be reading some Bob books. I know he’s not supposed to be doing anything with letters right now though.
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Hi all! We've been stuck on this procedure for a little over a week of sessions. I've read the tips and it basically says to just slow down and break the words apart. I feel like I'm doing this and yet we're not making progress. Does anyone has suggestions of what we can try? I pulled out the FIS sound pictures today even, hoping that is comfort with those and doing the same activity would help. No dice. I feel like I'm talking way too much again, and things always go south when it gets wordy. Thanks in advance for any help, we are going to try for a couple more days and then take a break.
I'll add too, that during this he'll grab tiles and make a full word for fun. Yet, the isolating and finding what is "different" just has him guessing every time. We've gone over what same and different mean separately to be sure he understands what those terms mean, but 9/10 he'll tell me that the two that are the same are different. I won't rush him at all, but it's hard to trust the process (this is a recurring theme with me haha) that he *has* to master this to be able to continue.
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13 minutes ago, PeterPan said:
That's EXCITING!!!!! Are you going to party for finishing FIS?
He had picked out a new toy (some alien launcher watch thing haha) a couple of weeks ago when we were in the doldrums a bit and I figured some motivation would be good. I had it waiting for him to open after lessons were done for the day. It's been a fun day for sure!
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On 9/4/2020 at 10:41 AM, Æthelthryth the Texan said:
I'm so happy to read this update!
You all were so helpful!
We finished today! I can't believe it. He just loved moved along the chart, and by the end he can totally spell words by ear with the cards. I'm blown away. He was even able to tell me why the word "ten" sounded like it was vibrating but the sound /t/ was quiet. "Oh because the /e/ and the /n/ are vibrating sounds too!" Gosh ya'll, it just warmed my heart. I really liked the order in which the sounds were introduced as it helped me see what I thought was an obvious difference in sounds, was really quite subtle. It helped me as a teacher to know what I needed to make sure he could hear in my speech. The last procedure of changing sounds shook him a little bit. We just slowed down again, I adjusted my speech and used more hand gestures until I knew for sure he understood what I was asking. Once that was clear, I backed off with gestures finally having him do it the last couple purely with the words in the script. I think we'll play some of the review games the rest of the week and start Barton 1 on Monday.
I'm telling you this combined with the genius that is Ronit Bird's dot patterns book and I actually think he will make so much progress this year all around.
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On 9/2/2020 at 10:26 PM, PeterPan said:
I don't remember anything about Barton1, sorry. My brain is just a total blur on it. We were doing LIPS integrated with Barton 1 along with his speech therapy (hands on), so it was distracting. Like you say, Barton 2 has words, phrases, and sentences for lesson 2 on. At least that's what I have in my quizlet. So that must be about the time it became logical to drill for fluency. At that point, where we were going through words and building reading fluency, that's where we could have been working on comprehension with the multi sorts.
So looking at my Barton 2 lesson 2 list, I think yes, you could work on comprehension. It would be a pain in the butt, but you could and should. Some quick things I see?
-pictures on one side, word to read on the other. I have no clue why I was not catching on that comprehension was going to be such a big deal for my ds. That would be a pain but something easy to do with Quizlet. You just throw the image on one side, word on the other, boom. Google image will get you there.
-sort by things you do vs. whats (verbs vs nouns)
-sort by specific things (proper nouns) vs. generic things (common nouns)
-sort nouns into categories (people, transportation, foods, whatever). Can be simple, like foods, not foods.
-sort by spelling
and so on.
For my ds, the language issues ran deep, so it isn't like those things would have resolved his spelling problems. However, if I were working with my ds now, I would do them, sure. It's another way to practice fluency (because you'll be getting in more reading of the words), and it ensures that he's connecting meaning to the words instead of reading in a disconnected way solely focused on decoding.
Really, I had no clue how off the comprehension was until I tried to have him illustrate "A frog sat on a log" from the little booklet I made him with his Barton words. He could read it just fine, and given his age and IQ it was completely unreasonable that he would have NO CLUE what the sentence meant. Well that and his vocabulary was testing crazy high. But in his case the assumption that vocabulary = language acquisition did not work.
https://www.amazon.com/Poems-Building-Reading-Skills-Professor/dp/1425806759 Here's a way to see what that multi sort could look like. See if you can see page 19 of the inside of this book. In Cartwright's book she sets it up like a grid, where it can be even more complicated. I think just the act of attaching meaning to what they're reading is important.
I'm coming back to this now that we have finished. Thank you!
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I definitely appreciate that advice going forward. I will look into ways to be sure he’s understanding the meaning as we go along. I’m not sure it can work in Level 1, as it’s all auditory still? Level 2 ramps up fast though with written phrases in the second lesson, so definitely we can work on it there.
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Just wanted to update that after almost 3 weeks, he has made SO much progress! Today, for the first time, we were able to get through all procedures (review game, discover sounds, play which word, sequence with cards, sequence with tiles) in one sitting! This usually took about 3 sessions. He enjoys the cards a lot, having so much fun with the review games. When I told him he would have around 20 cards in his hand eventually, his eyes bugged out with excitement. He feels really confident and proud of himself.
Things I've done per everyone's great advice is to move back to my office to a desk facing the wall with just us. I eliminated using the provided charts/cards (except the sounds stoplight, love that) as they are just extra clutter on the table for him to mess with. I've only had to really drive home lip vs tongue and quiet vs vibrating for a couple of harder sounds. He remembers simply by backing up and watching my mouth. I'm guessing we will finish at the end of the month and be ready for Barton 1. I've also found that just being really silly, like purposefully saying the same sounds over and over to get him laughing really has changed his whole mood about it. I'll continue the "which word" game with silly words too to just make it all less monotonous. We are on our way, and hopefully Barton 1 will be a breeze. I'/m so excited to see how he does when we get back to real words!
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1 hour ago, PeterPan said:
Look for autism specific materials, clinics, and professionals when you know it's autism. The behavior and attention issues are super common in autism, so they'll know how to tease it apart. If you get someone who specializes in ADHD and not ASD, their answers will be under powered.
Are you connecting with your county board of developmental disabilities to let them connect you with resources, funding, options? A dc with significant affect on language and ASD is going to qualify, yes, and they have a way in our state to get emergency funds in addition to the regular funds. If you haven't connected with your county level resources, that's where I would try. In our state, if you have a documented diagnosis, it's pretty straightforward for them to do the intake and get you started. Resources vary by county, but it can be really surprising. In the county adjacent to us, they literally cover EVERYTHING that your other options don't cover. In our county, you get $600 annually (respite, services, things not covered). So thre's probably at least *some* help there.
Ok, so I did integrate LIPS into Barton 1 and 2, yes. You're NOT crazy thinking you see a connection. I haven't used FIS, only LIPS. However there should be a *progression* where you do the skill in FIS and then *extend* it to the Barton lesson. So if you *introduce* sounds with FIS, go through all the FIS steps, gain mastery of the FIS steps, and then *extend* the same sounds to Barton, that's fine. I outlined on that dropbox link how I did that with LIPS/Barton. I did it through levels 1 and 2, and I did it because my ds was not going to naturally do that on his own. With autism, learning compartmentalizes. We don't want to leave anything to inference.
Hearing sounds in words and segmenting words into the tiles is an extremely important step. If the poster is the problem, what if you put away the poster? What if you copied the image and printed it smaller, so he was only seeing one important thing at a time instead of the whole poster?
Yes. It's bringing in multi-sensory ways for him to FEEL the sound to written connection.
Yes, I think that's up to you whether it's *helping* or *overwhelming* him. This stuff IS going to be rocket science. It IS hard. Hard for him and for you. It's ok if it's hard at first. I wouldn't assume a component should be dropped until you've tried it a while. It may be easier for him in a few days, with repetition.
-less content/steps at a time
-less visual overload
So not necessarily skipping steps, just making them smaller and more manageable. And I agree, as you see where it's going you'll see the utility and how to adapt it to him. I made up silly names for the lips faces. We sorted sounds with them using letter magnets and the faces.
Unless you qualify for medicaid, there's no help here. NC isn't winning any awards with assisting folks. Had we not decided to homeschool due to COVID, I could have thrown our hat in for the lottery for a disability grant to cover homeschool/therapy costs. I've no doubt funding for that will be even smaller this year though. I hadn't had a chance to look at the link, I will! That makes sense to me, integrating them that way. He told me today he likes the pictures, so I'll keep going as written, but cleaning it up visually and see where we are.
Thank you all SO much! I was feeling like I made a huge mistake and feeling so lost. It's very hard to trust the process. I'll regroup for the weekend and come back stronger on Monday.
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1 hour ago, Lecka said:
If you think he is guessing on sounds being one or the other, cut down on how many sounds you are working on and just focus on that.
My older son took an extremely long time on Barton Level 1 and he was also in speech therapy that took 3-4 times as long as expected.
I would keep working on it, but let it take how long it takes. If you wonder about guessing, slow down and repeat more to see if he is consistent.
My older son was in speech therapy working on speech sounds and could not hear the difference between many, many consonant pairs, and could not tell apart l and r blends, and could not hear “fast consonants” at the ends of words..... when he was 7. He is a very solid reader now. He does not read aloud beautifully (with tons of expression) like my daughter, but he reads accurately and at a decent speed.
If you are looking for speech therapy and he doesn’t have articulation issues, you can ask about “phonological awareness.” If he has articulation issues, then he can go for articulation. What you are doing should help his articulation too if it’s an issue.
My older son made faster progress after he got through the phonological awareness stage, and blending. Those were the hardest and slowest, then he made much better progress. Fluency was also hard for him but not “as” hard.
If he needs to repeat — have him repeat.
If you can make a visual template of some kind, maybe that can help with the memory issue.
Like — could you make one piece of paper represent “quiet” and one represent “vibrating”, and then have him point? And have them visible to show the question? This can cut down a ton on working memory load. It’s a thing people do — and if it helps you can do it all the time.
And on that note — could you make pictures for him to sort into baskets? That can add in more activity to help focus. And he can work on the same sets over and over and mix together new and review. This is the kind of thing people do too, for lots of need for review and need to build in activity and make it less of a “sit, listen, and respond” kind of thing.
I have also seen cute things where they put a picture (representing an answer — here you could have one for quiet and one for vibrating) and kids throw a ball or beanbag at the correct answer, or shoot a nerf dart at the correct answer.
If he has got ADHD and a need for repetition, often people add in novelty and movement to improve attention, and then — well, there’s still a need for practice and repetition. So people do creative things like this. There are lists around. This is also like — when people write things on the ground with chalk and kids jump on them.
If it’s helpful it’s good. If it’s just more distracting and difficult to focus, I think then try for good consistency and good structure, and try to do short, focused times several times a day. If it’s very consistent and structured he will know what to do.
You can see if he focuses better with bringing in cute/fun things or with just trying to spend 5 minutes that are very focused and not even trying for more than 5 minutes at a time.
Thanks for your input! This is just our first two sessions actually teaching sounds. We only have done /m/ and /n/ on separate days. I think it was just the language that was confusing, but I see now that same language is in Barton too so I see why they chose that. I'm looking at the first lesson in Barton 1, and I think I'm missing what I'm truly attacking. If I wittle down FIS to make it less wordy, which all it is is matching sound pictures to sounds, then segmenting with tiles, how is it different from going very slowly in Barton 1? Lesson 1 of Barton 1 asks him to break apart two sounds with tiles, then increases in length. Could we not start there and stay there til mastery?
The only speech he's had for the last year has been for articulation. I don't know what I'm looking for. If I remove the sound pictures from FIS, and don't replace them with something else, I have a hard time recognizing the difference between this and Barton 1. Barton seems to have, in its materials, more ideas for shifting the lesson, noting that "fast sounds" are hard to distinguish, so they can be avoided for a while and then slowly brought in. This type of advice seems much more helpful to me as a parent tutor doing the program. It goes over having him look at my mouth and so on. I've got to do some reading on what having sound/mouth pictures brings to the table, to understand the logic of what seems like an extra step for him to remember. I think it's so that I'm 100% certain he knows each sound is different. He can blend CVC, so I'm fairly confident he can do this.For visuals, FIS has these sound charts. They seem overwhelming with a big title he can't read and a small picture in the corner of a lip or mouth. I think I could make something that's easier like an on/off switch to signify vibrating (motor on) and quiet (motor off). I do agree, we'll have to rethink the lessons entirely to get more senses involved more often so he can move around.
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39 minutes ago, PeterPan said:
Then why go to the ADHD clinic?? You're looking for an SLP who specializes in literacy. This person *hopefully* will be able to run more detailed language and literacy testing. You want her to have experience with ASD obviously.
Because I think he may have it and what progress can be made with anything if he cannot focus? You've told me before that meds can be a game changer. I've seen it with my daughter too. If even with minimal language he is looking at everything in the room but me, thinking about what he's going to do next and so on, maybe that needs to be dealt with to set the stage for him to receive instruction. By the same token, relaxing instruction and just doing reflex work for 30 days or what have may be enough to help too for now. I've read so much about all that it takes to make a child table ready when they have LDs and things, so that's where my mind is. Is he even ready and how can I help him to be ready.
I have absolutely no clue where to begin to find an SLP that can do those things. I feel like the only reason to throw hundreds of dollars at more testing would be if I found a professional that was actually going to do the therapy, and that we could afford it which is not likely. With the pandemic too, weekly appointments stress me out and telehealth, I just can't see working, again, because we would still have to get him to pay attention to the screen long enough. We did virtual sessions in the spring and it was an exercise in futility.
It sounds like I just have to grin and bear it and teach better. Nothing will ever be open and go even with SN materials I see now. I'll figure him out. I'm determined.
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5 hours ago, PeterPan said:
Have you done reflex integration? My ds became a LOT easier to work with once we got his retained reflexes integrated.
I've got videos cued up. It's been hard to test him myself as he kind of laughs his way through it all lol. I figure I can assume he has some and just do the exercises anyway. We all need a little more movement these days.
It's hard for me because I don't realize the extent of his language issues until times like this, and it's yet to come up on testing. I don't know that I want to go through more academic testing this year. We get along fine for the most part until it hits me in the face that he may very well be clueless to anything that isn't a concrete concept in his head. Do I need to get mouth pictures instead? Is that piece, that understanding of what your mouth is doing when you make sounds so critical for reading? It's hard for me to wrap my head around that. The end goal is to be able to break up sounds correct? He can read CVC and some digraphs just fine already. So it seems like the issue is more so just the juggling of it all memory wise? I'm feeling like I wasted a lot of money right now honestly. Maybe I should pause and go to the adhd clinic here for a workup and address that first. We're gonna take the rest of the week off while I figure out next steps.
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31 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:
Well, I will say everything I've learned in this last year shows you cannot start remediating soon enough. However, that being said, you also do have to give it time. Sounds contradictory, but it's going to take both factors- remediating and focusing on the processing skills and letting brain maturity happen at whatever pace that is going to be. So it all becomes like an art in learning to teach to the kid. You take the tools, but then you have to craft them to your specific situation and cards you've been dealt. They may be having it really, really hard for a bit, and then you get a breakthrough and things click and get easy, and then you hit another plateau and it gets hard again. I think the saying some kids learn in stair steps has been very appropriate in this dd's case for sure.
I wouldn't worry so much about the time it's taking you- it's just great that you are being consistent. That is what matters. A lesson is going to take as long as it takes. We are still the same way now that she's in Barton. Some lessons we can do in a day. Some lessons take a week. Some lessons take weeks.
If you have questions on anything, I can pull my set out and get a refresher and see if I have any suggestions. It's all a blur in my brain because I watched those videos and then immediately started watching the Barton videos while I worked with her through FiS. We've been doing Baron for the majority of the year now so that has infiltrated all my brain space and FiS has sort of fallen out.
I posted on another thread last week I think that IEW's Arts of Language podcast just had a two part dyslexia series with the Eides (Dyslexic Advantage). They also had a podcast a few years ago with Susan Barton, if you are a podcast fan and are interested. I've found it very helpful to listen to Andrew Pudewa's experience with his son growing up as a boy with severe dyslexia. He's mentioned it a ton of times over the years in his talks, so hearing both the struggle and the successful outcome have been encouraging for me.
I do need to immerse myself in the thought behind these programs again. It's been years since DD1 was in the thick of Barton. Thank you! It's hard to see the other side of this, I appreciate the encouragement.
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30 minutes ago, PeterPan said:
Unfortunately, once autism is on the table, sure the explanation can be that he literally doesn't understand what you're saying. It sounds like you barely understand and he doesn't. Your best bet, since you're stuck with it, is to spend extra time and simplify the lessons. Drop down the language to be as minimal as you can. Point, gestures, yes/no, simplified words that mean exactly what they sound like and mean something to him.
For instance, I would have no trouble being technically precise with a dc and using terms like voiced/voiceless.
however this is neither technically correct nor helpful language, and it's because the people who wrote FIS, to all appearances, had ZERO qualifiations. This comes up over and over, every time this program turns up. People have problems, and it's because these authors just did whatever they thought in their "experience." So fine, that's what you're working with.
If you went to a professional, they would explain it with something simple like *motor on*, *motor off*. Feel the motor in your throat. (he touches yours while you make a voiced consonant) the motor is on. Can you turn on your motor? Feel it, the motor is on. Now you make /p/ or another voiceless and he feels. Motor off. Now he makes it and feels his motor off.
Simple, elegant. Less words, more precision.
No, the pictures are a total distraction and should be avoided. I know they used them, and again it just seems like every time FIS comes up on the boards it's in the context of these rabbit trails and things they added.
You want a sound/written connection. You can count sounds with tiles. You can say the sound while tracing it on sandpaper letters.
So wrap your brain around it and reteach the lesson in the most streamlined way you can.
Yes, you're going to need to teach him in chunks. Attention with ADHD is both chemical (consider meds), language (he's not understanding, why stay), and behavioral (his sensory, joint attention, lack of regulation, etc. are all screaming leave leave). So you can consider meds. You can do sensory interventions before to put him in a better place. You can use short sessions. You can use high energy and motivators. At that stage with my ds I was doing repeated 5-10 minute sessions with high value motivators. We usually did something organizing before like midline activities, metronome, kinesthetic games to work on working memory, etc. I like your idea on environmental control. Make sure the space stays paired positively.
Did we realize this dc had ASD when FIS was suggested to you? Barton itself is not appropriate with language delays. It can result in hyperlexia.
Yea, it was in my long thread from the summer when I was debating what to do. I've read many times about their lack of qualifications but it kept getting recommended to me for its ease of delivery on the parent anyway ya know? Also, when Susan Barton says she's never using LIPS again, well, I just said to heck with it and bought FIS so I didn't have to try to wrap my head around the former haha.
You're speaking to my exact feeling, my gut, that the meat of this is good, but because of his extra stuff going on, its just extra for no reason in his case. I've gotta put away all the fluff. I've absolutely used voiced/voiceless/motor on/motor off in my normal teaching so I will go back to that happily. I do like the sounds stoplight a lot, so I really think just using that then moving to tiles is all that's really needed. He's having to process what the picture is, remember the word map, then remember it starts with /m/ and that it's a lip sound..just whoa. It seems like, I could have just went straight to Barton 1 and just done is reaaaaally slowly and gotten to the same point. But maybe I'm wrong.
I don't know how to avoid making him hyperlexic? What would I use instead of Barton?
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1 hour ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:
I wouldn't hesitate to break it up in to shorter lessons within a elsson- and maybe do it several times a day, if you have somewhere you can leave it set out. (That would make my life much easier with Barton if I could leave it set up and out I know!) . 7 is really young- it is the same age as my dd, and it's just a lot especially when it's HARD for them to start hearing those sounds and paying attention and processing it all. My dd literally gets hot when she is working on something difficult. I think it's taking so much brain power at first it does make their brains pour off energy and heat.
I could maybe leave it set out, it seems kinda busy/overwhelming to me though with all those big cards across the table. I have a desk in my office closet I could use for it and bring him back here solo where it's more quiet to see if that helps. I wonder about just leaving them to the side for a bit to cut down on the visual stimuli. The first day, we could only get through the intro. We are essentially doing only one procedure a day. That has us taking a full week per lesson. I forget that 7 is young when he's coming up on second grade and not reading. I keep debating with just giving him time, but I"m not sure if that's just delaying dealing with the issue vs helping.
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That’s a good idea, I will contact them! Maybe I just need to give it more time for him to get used to what I’m asking. Maybe attention is something we really need to address, I just don’t really know what is outside of typical 7yo and or boy behavior. My daughters were attentive angels making not preparing me a bit haha. I worry it’s even more stress on his mind, to hear the sound I say, remember it, associate it with a sound picture and then answer my question. If I’m thinking that though, attention must be a good ways outside of normal range. 🤔
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Hi all,
We're underway and going slowly with Foundation in Sounds for my 7yo (ASD and maybe adhd plus the usual LD suspects). I'm finding during our sessions, I'm talking *so* much with the script and asking him so many repetitive questions trying to get him to focus, that I worry it's more distracting than helping. We are only able to get through one procedure before his attention span is toast. If he doesn't repeat what I said, he won't remember anything. I'm asking him whether sounds are vibrating or quiet and half the time I think he's guessing. I don't know, I just guess I need some encouragement this will improve and the steps are worthwhile. I'm so glad I went with this over LIPs as I'm not sure I could keep my wits about me with his level of distraction and still implement it correctly. 🥴
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On 7/19/2020 at 7:50 AM, Runningmom80 said:
You would love trello! There's a FB group for homeschoolers that use it and lots of videos on YouTube. I just use the free version, I think most homeschoolers do as well.
This is my new favorite video and sort of how I decided to do my boards this year.
Thank you so much for sharing this! I have so many pdfs and things all over the place, I really think this will help streamline my mornings.
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2 hours ago, PeterPan said:
If you’re doing Barton FIS is logical. Don’t over complicate . Resale will be strong.
I am the queen of over complicating things haha! Thanks!
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7 hours ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:
I think this is the right one? I tagged it on page 6 because I think iirc that's where most of the resource stuff came in once we had finished talking through the eval end. So you might want to skip the first 5 if you don't want all that other info.
I will say, that in addition to Barton, our membership to Learning Ally has been invaluable. She really was resistant to Audiobooks before and then last fall something clicked and now she cannot get enough of them. I honestly think she wasn't hearing them before. Now I can't keep her in audiobooks. I know PeterPan likes BARD, so there are options. I just went with LA becuase that's what i had the referral to and it was incredibly straight forward. We've been able to find a ton of books and people on this board have been really great about recommending good book suggestions for her, like Ramona, and Clementine etc.
Thanks! I will look into this, though I don't think we have something official enough on his IEP. I wonder if they'll just accept the fact that he has reading goals, but he's not classified as SLD reading officially.
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On 7/18/2020 at 11:26 AM, PeterPan said:
Fwiw i think the only reason NOT to use FIS is needing SLP integration like for my ds' apraxia. LIPS brings that better. Beyond that, FIS is the obvious choice for open/go. LIPS is so not open/go, lol, however in some cases its essential.
This is my current dilemma for sure. Something that is open and go is so appealing, but I also don't want to still have holes after we are done. He definitely has language issues (think wh questions and what not). I think he can make all sounds fairly easily though. Some of the issues raised in the previous poster's thread do give me pause as to whether it's right for him (ie it's prep for Barton but not much more than that).
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On 7/18/2020 at 10:47 AM, Æthelthryth the Texan said:
I haven't read the whole thread, so forgive me if this is moot, but I used Foundations in Sounds last fall with my dd7, after she was dx'd dyslexic. She had failed the Barton screen, which is what led to us seeking the eval, but I waited until post eval to start.
FiS is incredibly open and go. I wanted to get started and not spend a few months figuring out how to use some of the alternative programs. It seemed overly basic at first, but I quickly saw where her weaknesses were and how they were being shored up. I really could see progress by lesson. We went through the program pretty quickly and then moved seamlessly into Barton. I think FiS is particularly helpful if you know you are going to use Barton because then you aren't relearning or unlearning a differing procedure set.
That's all I can think of to say, but if you have any other questions about it, let me know. I did sort of a running review here at one point as we were using it, but I have no idea which thread or where it is.
Thank you so much for your input! Open and go is really a plus! I have Barton 1 and 2 sitting here already so we definitely plan to move right on into that. I've been watching the videos and you're totally right, I was thinking " It seems so simple!" But there's a beauty in a methodical process that covers all the bases, since he struggled with every part of the Barton screening. The last part being just completely out of the question. I'll try to see if I can find your thread! It's nice to hear she was the same age too. DS likely has the attention span of an average 5yo though haha.
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39 minutes ago, PeterPan said:
it has been a while but make sure he repeats the imstructions, answers with complete sentences, etc. not just pointing.
im glad thw ronit bid is a good fit!!!!
Doh I missed that part! He liked doing it though so when we do it again I’ll have him repeat. I stumbled on Hearbuilders on that site and it looks fantastic too?! 60 day free trial and there seems to be a ton of activities for auditory memory, following directions Etc. He was pretty engaged with it, the storylines are cute, so I’m going to give that a try too as well for variety. 5yo DS with some residual funky speech was into it too.-
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On 7/14/2020 at 10:03 PM, PeterPan said:
I agree that failing the Barton screening after a year of the SRA program and another is pretty telling.
Yea, I dare say I need to see about some objective adhd type eval with him too along with apd. I don’t believe that’s ever been looked at either as he was too young.
I finally dug into Ronit Bird’s dot pattern book last night and WOW! Thank you SO much for that. I know he (and I) will enjoy those lessons and I am just in awe at how incremental it is. It is perfection, and I’m forever grateful for all the advice here. Looking at it, I can see how you’re totally right, he isn’t ready for Rightstart! So I think we will try FIS, the Super Duper grammar processing for some language work, Dot Patterns/ C rods books for math, and then as a family I’m hoping TGATB can bring us to together for some history and science.
Actually, I just went through the samples with him for Super Duper and he did way better than I expected. Perhaps, it's not hard enough for him if he did the Level 2 sublevel 21 no problem? I know it goes to 50, but curious if there's maybe something else that starts further along. -
2 hours ago, PeterPan said:
Barton is intended for older kids (grades 3-4+) to ADULTS. It's much more mature in its approach, with no fun and games. It's just straight phonological processing. There's also NO effort to work on language and reading comprehension, because Barton says it's not intended for students with language disabilities.
So no, they're radically different products. SRA is intended for his age and intended for kids who need significant intervention in language/comprehension as well as decoding. It's a solid, logical choice. You could spend an insane amount of time and money attempting to replicate the language/comprehension work the SRA Mastery is building in for you. Btdt. I had my ds decoding and "reading" with multiple choice comprehension questions at a 5th/6th grade level by the end of 1st, but he couldn't understand "a frog sat on a log". So he was a hyperlexic dyslexic at that point. I've bought tons from Linguisystems, Super Duper, etc. trying to go through these areas. My ds had so much memorized language (reciting pages from audiobooks) that it was hard for the SLPs to see he needed work. But when you gave him an actual expressive language test like the SPELT, he completely bombed.
So whatever. I agree, I haven't used SRA Mastery, easy for me to say. I'm just saying if he has language issues, Barton is not meant for that. He's also younger than target. But obviously I like it for decoding instruction. It's just you may end up with problems beyond what you imagine. Reading is more than decoding. He actually has to comprehend.
My point by saying that, is if a second grader doesn't have the working memory to remember 3 sounds in their mind, continuing on in *any* traditional program, before that is addressed seems counterproductive. Hence, why they say use FIS or LIPS or something. Maybe our time would be better spent pausing something like Reading Mastery, or whatever "program" and just work on getting his mind actually ready to truly receive phonics instruction. This is what I was wondering, if anyone had ideas for what to do before we dive back in to a says /a/ a/ ah/ and what have you. I've done two levels with my oldest child, I know exactly how the lessons go. I don't doubt Reading Mastery is a good program, I just never considered it as a home educator because it's curriculum marketed to schools. So, if it's truly worth continuing, then I'll sign him right on up for virtual school through his district where they can keep providing the materials. I didn't expect Barton to help his language, no, not at all. I'm fully aware that comprehension matters or I wouldn't be worrying so much about my daughter too who has hit a wall with comprehension.
Barton - Stuck on Comparing Words
in The Learning Challenges Board
Posted
We’ve done that by accident, and gone to the mountains for a few days before my husband leaves for a new job. Maybe on Monday when we get back to it, it’ll be better. 😊