I found it. Should have looked a bit more before I posted. If anyone is interested, here is the post: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/348864-my-evaluation-of-numerous-writing-curricula/?hl=%20classical%20%20rhetoric%20%20for%20%20the%20%20modern%20%20student%20%20composition%20%20the%20%20classical%20%20tradition

A few months ago I was looking through posts about options for teaching rhetoric. I came across a post where someone had outlined a thoughtful plan to use Classical Rhetoric for the Modern Student with their 9th grader if I remember correctly. I purchased the book with the idea to use the plan but now I cannot find that post. Not sure why I didn't save it. Does this ring a bell with anyone?

Me, too! Could you PM me, as well?

Sounds like we are living parallel lives, Meriwether. Sometimes even commiseration is encouraging, knowing you are not alone!

Yes, I would love to hear of any online class/writing tutors (moderately priced would be preferred) that you have used and would recommend. One obstacle for us is that we live in Thailand so being in a different time zone might be an issue.

Oh, thank you, ladies! You have given me much to think about. I think one of the things that so frustrated me with WWS was the layout of the teachers book and the student book and how much I was looking back and forth at them trying to understand the two of them together, just a silly inconvenience. I think the information is so good. It just seemed to require quiet concentration that I didn't have time for. After further searching I found this PDF about WWS from Susan W. Bauer which is reassuring: http://downloads.peacehillpress.com/samples/pdf/WWEandWWSexplanation.pdf?utm_source=Catalog&utm_medium=Print&utm_content=Page%2B9&utm_campaign=2014%2BCatalog&page=10 JDoe, do you have other resources you use for outlining? Or do you just do the method she spells out in WTM? I did use a few outlining workbooks with her last year. I have listened to the audio for middle grades and the logical way she lays it out is *so* appealing to me. But it doesn't work out so well when I try to teach it. I will look into School Composition and Writing and Rhetoric. Maybe I will work on some WWE 4 (which never did) for the rest of the year and regroup. Thanks for all the suggestions, you have given me hope. If you have any other suggestions, feel free to continue to comment!

We are using WWS1 with my 6th grade daughter and it is not going well. I tried to use it last year and we finally ditched it and started over this year. Now the same thing is happening again--it is always the last subject we do and we both dread it. I know if I put some effort into it, it would go better but there seems to be so many obstacles. Here is what I see holding us up: I am intimidated by the subject of writing. I don't like to write myself. My daughter doesn't enjoy it. But she might if we worked more on it. I have a dyslexic child who takes a lot of my time. My daughter works well independently and is a natural student -- except in writing. I have 5 children 11 down to 3 and writing is that one subject that takes all my concentration and there is rarely in quiet time for me to concentrate on the assignments. She just can't seem to do this on her own even though it is supposed to be independent. So, how can I simplify WWS1 to make it work? I don't won't to give up on it. Or should I try something else? Ironically WWE is working well for my 1st grader and 4th grader (dyslexic kid), both boys, but of course it is more simple to follow. I have basically shelved it for now, telling myself I will do a crash course with her when all her work is done for the year. But that doesn't sound reasonable or fun either!! :) Somebody please help me, this is the main subject that drags me down. I am feeling a little crazy about this! :/

Lori D., I realized after I posted my question that there was a sub forum for the logic stage. I saw your post and it was helpful. Would you mind sharing which workbooks and logic games you and your kids have enjoyed most?

Would anyone be willing to share how you "do logic" with your 5th grader? My oldest will be in 5th grade next year, so I am trying to figure it out. I have the mind bender books and the red herring books. As I read through the logic stage in WTM again, it is suggested to take 3 hours a week for this. Am I missing something? Are the puzzles really difficult? Does it take 3 hours a week to complete all this?

Thank you!

I am not able to get to my WTM book and I am researching grammar options for 3-4th grade. Can someone tell me what Susan recommends? I think one of the choices is Rod and Staff. Thanks

I do try now to include him. Most days he would rather just play. So he plays in the living room right by the dining room table and if he is interested in the read aloud or the history story he will listen in or come look at the pictures. I think we are doing it right. I just can't help but to think of what will it be like next year. I love to plan and I just can't plan ahead for him now. Glad I gave you a good laugh. I definitely have to work on the relaxation thing too!!;)

My son acts out stories like this, too.

LOL! Love this! After he falls, my son hops up right away and says, "I'm not hurt!"