I'm out of free articles, so I can't read it. What does it say that swayed you or inspired you one way or the other? What did you have your children memorize in home school? Honestly, I wasn't able to understand the value of memorizing poetry when The Boys were younger. I'm not really sure that I understand the purpose or point of it even now to tell you the truth.

A lot of the techniques/methods that we used, leaned towards largely passive, or else short-term. I feel like there's a better word for that, but we did a lot of reading, annotating, rereading and discussing. Things that boost your competence in the short-term, but ultimately lack staying power.

Make it Stick is almost a Research Paper, on learning itself and more effective learning techniques and how to use them as a guide to study better. For me, this book is better read carefully, a chapter at a time, and not all at once. I like this book because it's helping me to understand some of the failures I've experienced in the education I gave to The Boys, and to clarify what I dislike about the things I've tried in the past with The Boys to varying degrees. I know that I'll be revisiting this book more as I actually develop my Knowledge Based curriculum for directions on how to guide and build her study regiment.

I've been bouncing back and forth between What Ivan Knows that Johnny Doesn't and Make It Stick. WIKtJD is basically a subject-by-subject comparison of the education a typical 1960s child gets in the United States of America and Soviet Union. It's a very eloquent way of saying "My fellow Americans, we're doing a terribly inefficient job at this Education business especially when compared to the Russians." WIKtJD doesn't examine the Math/Science education in Soviet vs US public schools, because at the time that the book was written, it was a given that the US system was highly inferior in Math and Science. Honestly, it's almost more like a series of blog posts than a single book, but that makes it easier to read through rather quickly and to meaningfully revisit particular sections. The first 5 of the 6 chapters of WIKtJD include a brief essay about the subjects role within society/education and speaks briefly on the coverage/extent, then it lists the table of contents of textbooks used in the USSR and the USA to teach that subject at the same grade levels. As it stands, I don't feel much has changed about an American education since the time that this book was written. The 3rd - 12 grade textbooks used in my public school education were crap. I haven't noticed a huge uptick in quality textbooks over the last 15ish years and because I've been home schooling, I've actually been keeping my eye on what's available and what's being used. In fact, it also feels like more and more schools are moving away from textbooks or anything tangible. I know that American education doesn't focus on truly learning and knowing much of anything outside of how to read, and at least in the 1960s, the USSR education was all about the learning, retaining and knowing knowledge in a variety of subjects as you can see from the mix of subjects taught and the Table of Contents from the books that are used to teach them.

If I leave my child with you for a few hours it's because I trust that I can rely on you in some basic way, and I'm confident that my children will mostly be ok. If I leave my child with your for a few weeks it's because I trust you with their lives and, in a way, my own. While you're watching my child for a few weeks IDGAF if you allow them to watch a movie that I would also allow them to watch! I'd forgive you allowing them to watch some movies that I wouldn't have allowed.

Assuming that "OPR" is Oral Phonogram Review "WPR" is Written Phonogram Review So what is "SPL"? Is it just an abbreviation for spelling?

Thanks for the ideas of how to format a resource! I appreciate it.

When your kids did Memory Master, what was the process like? Memory Master can be done at a Building/Group level, right? What percentage of CC Participants in your building/group participated in MM?

Dude, you can win $10,000 doing Classical Conversations? 💸 🤑 🤩 💰 $10,000? Seriously? Does anyone know if this is cash or a scholarship to a particular school/program? @Mrs Twain, did your kids do this level of Memory Master? What's it like? Hell, Amiga could go win her own trust fund, lol.

We don't eat a lot of new things because there's a lot that we can't eat so we're very much an eat dishes made from the same things, over and over type of house hold. Everyone cooks for a week. The best way to influence what you're going to be eating is during the grocery shopping phase. Sometimes. During my week to cook, if I'm busy then I favor cooking things that are quick to make and easy to clean up--burgers, stir fries, slow-roast stuff in the oven. When there's a big opening in the schedule, we might do a huge batch cook for several dishes.

Ya'know what? thank you for this link with the games. It was actually really helpful to see examples of games that I can play with or modify for just one student. I'm not actually used to just one child and was blanking on what I could do with a single kid.

Thank you for this lead! I've found both her books and updated the Book list in the OP. These sound like a Memory Palace, or the Method of Loci, right? I'll get around to reading both her books and seeing whats-what.

I agree. From the outside looking in, it seemed like a bit too much emotion, but then again, I wasn't there over the years that the kids were studying and I wasn't privy to their unhappiness over the years and I have no idea how they were kept at the study of Latin (or anything else) when they protested/complained. I imagine that I'd be having a completely different experience if The Boys had gotten older and suddenly felt that I'd wasted a significant amount of their lives with the education that I'd chosen for them. When you actually give a damn about your kids and put a lot of thought/effort into the choices that you made them, I guess it's hard to hear criticism of your choices? 🤷‍♂️ Based on what I know of The Teens/Young Adults in that family, my own private theory is that they weren't given a very useful or complete education so it's not just the Latin that fell flat of whatever they were expecting it to do, but it's kinda like "Gee, whiz, I'm in a pretty crappy spot, now aren't I mom/dad?" In my case, for the most part I guessed right. The Boys are thriving with what I've given them, they're conscious of how they're now benefiting from the education that I gave them. They feel prepared and capable of doing what it is that they want to do so they're mostly grateful and so I get a lot of positive feedback from them, but there were parts that I f*cked up pretty good. When The Boys encounter a barrier or limitation that's due directly to my choices, yeah--they feel some type of way about it. It's not the best feeling in the world, but I can't do anything about it now, ya know? Anyway, it's not my family so I can't speak with authority. I can only tell you that the mom of that family told me she wishes she'd done differently with Latin because her kids regretted/weren't happy that they'd studied it in the end, which is what the OP asked about.

I've updated my booklist in the OP with your suggestion. Thank you for both the recommendations and the observations about your own experience with learning something--it's interesting food for thought.

So, this is the part where I come across as a whiny baby. My tolerance for constant noise and bad-singing ranges from low to medium-low. After a bit, I need every one to STFU and just be quiet! I'm working on it, but this sounds hellish to me. Plus, kids music tends to be of the quality that makes you want to claw someones throat out after about 30 seconds. I freaking hated some of the School House Rock songs (I don't even remember which ones) But what CDs did you find for SAT worthy vocabulary?

1) See? Having a brother close in age/ability was built in motivation for The Boys. Nothing gave (hell, gives) them joy like out-doing the other on something that the other should know or be able to do well also. It was nice because Buddy is a born competitor, and Pal is a terrible loser so even though he's more easy-going, he has to win or he's miserable. They were well matched as little kids. 2) Gotta be honest, while I'm curious about the Memory Master Award, I'm confident that CC is definitely not for us. It's too lite, too Jesus-y, too uneven and too expensive because when I've looked into it, I'm not sure why/how that's meant to be a full 3 years program. It can be done in like...6 months. However, academically we can't use CC's history, geography, English grammar, Latin, math, Bible and science. Which just leaves Geography and Science. I have a method that I like for Geography and I'm looking forward to offering Amiga an improved and stream-lined Geography education. While I'm planning to just start Amiga on it as a part of school learning when she's ready and go with it for as long as she thinks it just normal, I'm also going to have to come up with some mechanism for if/when she wants more. Already, Amiga's personality is more easy going--she's not high strung like Buddy and I, she's more like a talkative Pal, minus the inherent craziness.

But how would he know that? Has he read all the Non-Latin classics, scrolls and tablets from around the world? All of them? Has he gone and listened attentively to all of the orally recorded texts/tales/lessons in every other language?

The one real life homeschooler that I know whose kids did several years of Latin later regretted it when her kids became unbelievably bitter about the waste of time when they realized that they didn't have some huge advantage over kids who studied other languages--and I think some college wouldn't accept Latin as a foreign language. Later, the mom told me that she wishes she'd gone with a living language or no language at all because it was such an angry reaction from her kids and they hadn't enjoyed studying Latin much in the first place. I guess that they bought into the reasoning given in all the blogs and marketing about the Benefits of Latin?

I have actually but I don't like it as much as I had hoped that I would. It could be a Gil Problem, more than an Anki Problem, but it seems like it's a lot of trouble to get it started and to keep it growing. Also, I'm strongly-biased against digital/screen-based methods used in education, outside of technology-education. However, once I've worked my way through more of the booklist and have a stronger vision for the how of this Memorization Centric, Knowledge Based Homeschool that I'm going for, then I'm going to go and look at Anki and other SRS-flashcard type applications again.

Ok, 3rd times' the charm! I can't seem to get this reply out. ' I really like the basic concept of memory box systems. Lietner and Chartlotte Mason are the two that I've come across the most. Simply Charlotte Mason is well marketed so I come across her video/articles a little more frequently thanks to the algorithm. I'm trying to figure out how to translate it into a form that's better or more flexible for my purposes. I've looked at them over the years, but it was hard for me to articulate precisely what I don't like about them, though I think that it comes down to a misunderstanding of the value or use of a flashcard in particular? I'm still working on this. I tried something like the "batches" you proposed at one point. It was actually not as cumbersome as I had feared it would be. But it was also an experience that led me to a different quandary--how to plan/schedule knowledge more intelligently so that it matures logically down the way.

Thank you, I've added your books to the reading list in the OP and I definitely appreciate you stopping by to drop some positivity from a BTDT perspective.

One area that I constantly felt that could've/should've been improved for The Boys while they were young was Memorization. I always intended to devote more energy to straight up memorizing essential information and there were short seasons throughout their younger years when we did work on memorization/retention of specific knowledge, but we never made and sustained lasting changes for various reasons. As we look back, we noticed that the things that we made a concerted effort to know throughout their K-8 years are still known pretty darn well relative to subjects in which we made no concerted effort to memorize a body of information. What's more, is that they know more about those memorized topics/areas relative to a topic in which they learned about things only at a surface level. Anyway, I'm doing a bit of thinking about how to improve the Memory-Work strand in the homeschool going forward for my toddler daughter Amiga with the intention of developing a memorization-centric, knowledge Based Homeschool Curriculum for her when she's ready. I've looked at Memory Work groups like Classical Conversations and it's not really in line with what I'm envisioning. I have some basic ideas about the what, and I feel pretty good about the why but I'm struggling to grasp and fully visualize the how for long-term memorization used in a multi-year academic setting. To this end, I've made plans to order/read the following books: The Memory Book: The Classic Guide to Improving Your Memory at Work, School and at Plan by Jerry Lucas and Harry Lorayne What Ivan Knows That Johnny Doesn't by Arther S. Trace Jr. The Knowledge Gap by Natalie Wexler Make It Stick: The Science of Successful Learning by Peter C. Brown, Henry L. Roediger III and Mark A. McDaniel Talent is Over Rated: What Really Separates World Class Performers from Everyone Else by Geoff Colvin The First Twenty Hours: How to Learn Anything Fast by Josh Kaufmann Mrs Twain recommends: The Knowledge Deficit: Closing the Shocking Education Gap for American Children by E.D. Hirsch Jr. Why Don't Students Like School?: A Cognitive Scientist Answers Questions About How the Mind Works and What It Means for the Classroom by Daniel T. Willingham Clemsondana recommends: Learning How to Learn: How to Succeed in School Without Spending All Your Time Studying by Barbara Oakley LostInTheCosmos Recommends: Outsmart Your Brain by Dan Willingham Bookbard Recommends: The Memory Code by Lynne Kelly Memory Craft by Lynne Kelly daijobu recommends: Cultural Foundations of Learning: East and West by Jin Li Clarita recommends: Grasp: The Science Transforming How We Learn by Luke Yoquinto and Sanjay E. Sarma Peak: Secrets from the New Science of Expertise by Anders Ericson Moonwalking with Einstein: The Art and Science of Remembering Everything by Joshua Foer As well as any other book that fits in this niche (If you know of another book that fits in this niche, please list it or PM me) I'm sure that I'm late to the party and would love to hear from anyone else whose done (or is interested in doing) intensive long-term memorization and recall style memory work outside of poetry or scripture.

I'm big on the whole just do it world view. I swear that I'm not a NIKE Spokesperson, but If I waited until I was motivated or swimming in positivity to do something, I'd never start. Reflect on the why you are going to do anyway and then just start. Start out with the bare minimum and most essential daily and don't miss a day. Think carefully before you add on anything else. It's okay to not be especially enthused about something that you do every day.

Look at Nursing programs at both trade schools, community colleges and universities in your state and see if you can ID which subjects and textbooks they are using. Then go on eBay and find the slightly older editions of the books being used. If you have second hand bookstores in your city or a neighboring city go in person and have a look-see. You can get actual textbooks that a nursing student would use for $5 - $25. There's definitely no reason to spend 500 dollars on a biology course because your student wants to become a nurse. You can purchase your student quality textbooks and workbooks on Anatomy and Physiology, Microbiology, Medical Terminology, Paitient Care, Dosage Math and NCLEX Test Prep for well under $500.

Thanks @8filltheheart! It's definitely an adventure. We're pretty sure that last year was our last year of Spanish-language schooling and that we are done with the studying Spanish for Spanishs-sake. Spanish will remain a home language of discussion, entertainment and use but we're at the point of diminishing returns when it comes to directly studying the language and even studying in the language, so we're going to switch focus from accumulating more and instead spend time intentionally honing what we've got. Using online tests, their Spanish vocabulary has been estimated to be somewhere between 13,000 and 25,000 words depending on the test and the day that they take a vocabulary measuring test. Of course, that spread is large enough that its not very useful, but it supports my thinking that they know north of 10,000 words pretty fluently. When immersed in Spanish, they can converse in real time on a wide variety of interests. They can speak with people from a number of Spanish countries/regions--though some accents are a lot more challenging than others. So, our focus in Spanish is shifting away from language growth to language refinement and accent polishing. The year will be spent training up their accents so that they're consistently using the same rhythm and vocabulary and to help them stay "in region" when speaking and so that they grow more familiar with various accents so that they can capture naturally spoken Spanish more quickly when they meet someone. Japanese will continue to be a language under direct study as they are still in the "learning by accumulating". This is another big year for literacy and exposure--They're going to be reading and discussing novels and the news as well as continuing to hone their conversational skills. However, for Japanese, their vocabularies are significantly smaller. Guesstimates vary from 4000 to 7000 words and phrases known fluently.