DS (17) is applying to PAN camp and I was wondering if anyone has any personal experience. I heard about it here but there is not too much info out there on what they actually do at camp. How is it run...like a course? stand-alone lectures? research? labs? projects? Variety of topics across physics or narrow in scope? Thanks!

if he took all these courses, what would you expect a bm school to provide? At our very competitive HS, calc BC is the highest math offered on that math track ( we offer stats as well; some schools offer either discrete math or alg 3 but I know of no school that offers 4 years of math courses AFTER calc BC). AP comp sci A is the hardest comp sci course. Physics C is the hardest sci course to qualify for in the school in that it requires bio, chem and then Physics 1/2 be taken first. If the child can do all these things in 8th grade, no HS is going to accomodate, so using them as solid evidence of placement does not seem very purposeful. Also, Physics C is calc-based and should be taken after calculus, so I would rank these course in order from comp sci as the easiest to physics c as most advanced.

yea! I'm glad there are plenty of particle physicists! Regardless, I find physics to be a good undergrad major for many future studies...if he's interested in further study. Dh was meteorlogy and the undergrad physics majors who came into grad school kicked their butts due o better foundational mathematical knowledge. I hope he's finally found something he likes....he's interested in music tech too which has some crossover with physics. His older and younger brother are both passionate about their interests and many subjects and knew what they wanted to do by 11 years old so this is kind of baffling...having a HS sophomore who is saying "it's too early to think about college" and has limited interests.

So he majored in physics? I was looking through college websites trying to figure out if that was even the right major! A close friend whose dad was a physicist told us there aren't many jobs for particle physicists - that it's a really small group of ~150 geniuses, which was discouraging but our friend is in medical marketing :) Just trying to wrap my head around this whole thing so I can guide him in the right direction...gently.

Thanks! PAN looks doable. Wish I'd found it earlier this year! Though he is resistant to everything so I may need a year to warm him up to it :) See I wasn't even sure how closely related astronomy was! This is out of my realm even though I'm a chem E. My physics was primarily mechanics and a little E and M.

My sophomore is excited about very little...just music and particle physics. We've got music covered. I have no idea how to encourage the particle physics besides documentaries and reading. We are getting close to college application time. If he decides to study physics, demonstrated interest would be a good thing but I have no thoughts on how to do so. He's not the most passionate/motivated kid, so he's not going to take on some theoretical science project. Does anybody have a background in physics or ideas for me? He's a Davidson Scholar so totally capable of being a physics major if he wants and he's wrapping up Calc 2 as a sophomore.

Giving an out of level test can be a useful way to further identify what you are dealing with. (ie give the Iowa 2 levels above). Also, Duke probably offers out of level testing but likely not until next winter.

I don't know how little, but Vi Hart has videos online that address the degrees of infinity and other interesting topics. I don't think we discovered them until my youngest was maybe 9 or 10 years old.

In regards to the practice time "on top of a full day of school work", I don't think as a homeschooler with a gifted kid that necessarily needs to be the case. My son practiced instruments over an hour a day and worked on competition math daily, and I wouldn't even have called them passions. He was taking algebra but it only took him 20 minutes a day to ace the course. He read extensively on his own and had no need of spelling or vocab. Really his ordinary school work was taking 2 hours a day maybe? so for us an extra 3 hours of music and math would not have been an issue. It depends on your style and your kid's speed (not just ability) and I've known families who do full school work days but also those for whom homeschool only lasted 90 minutes each morning and those kids went on to major universities with scholarships and tremendous success. You need get to know your kid and their needs.

While at older ages you can avoid being redundant with school material by choosing side-topics, passions, etc...I think you are not really going to stop a gifted kid learning basic computation and reading if they are ready. My middle son (supposedly pg) read the Harry Potter series in Kindergarten...then we pulled him out along with his older brother who also was reading in kindergarten and was bored in 2nd grade . He is now back in since 7th grade (in 9th now) and while bored with the pace, the material itself was not an issue putting him back in. Grades 1 and 2 are the rough years to be way ahead IMO.

I would check with the specific camps. A lot of summer academic camps will actually tell you no, you won't have time for your instrument from what I've read on websites, although I know nothing specific to the math camps. And that's where you start running into difficult decisions...

I think you follow the path your child sets as long as it is practical and then you make decisions...some of which may be hard or some of which may be made for you by circumstance or changing interests or impossible meshing of schedules. My middle son spent a reasonable amount of time on math competition material in 6th grade as well as geography and music. Now in 9th grade he has no interest in math competitions whatsoever, geography has fallen by the wayside, but he devotes about 20 hours a week to music, and not even necessarily with the intention of being as good as you are talking about or pursuing music itself as a career. He does play 2 instruments with weekly private lessons and participate in 5 different musical groups. This summer we are getting him private music technology lessons as this is where his interest actually lies as far as a future career. Sometimes schedules conflict or become too full and then you drop the thing at the bottom. We've done that with my 17 year old...and we often point out the right choice FOR him because it's obvious to us where the passion lies and that he is juggling too much for his mental health. I wanted to add that both of these activities you listed are hugely beneficial to your child's development even if he quits next year, so nothing has been lost. I saw the 6th grade year with my middle son as a gift I was blessed to be able to provid; he got math and geography skills that will serve him for life because he was able to do his school work so quickly.

How did you figure out who the vendor is gstharr?

It's baffling. Does anyone have experience with them and want to offer perspective? We could dual enroll (a high school student) at a major local university with a live teacher on campus for the kind of prices they are charging. AOPS provides a live teacher for less than half the cost of their self-paced courses. I just don't get it. Are they that special? Brownie

Lots of options in this thread. This is grea. Thank you. I have many options to consider.

You are right. My mistake. I should have said the traditional course is 90 hours. I'm familiar with the traditional intro class content and that is what I am looking to replicate. I took it 30 years ago and my oldest son took it 2 years ago, both at our local high school. There is some solid, important foundational information (variable types, loops, if-then) in that class I want my 15 year old to get outside a drag and drop program for kids to boost his confidence for AP, but I believe it is 30 hours of actual effort for my kid done self-paced. My oldest spent half his class time helping the other students or working on personal programming projects, and the rest of the time frustrated with the slow pace. He just needs someone to run him through it in a logical manner and show him how it's done and then he'll be good to go. I need the reassurance it will actually get done...thus the need for a paying class, but not one that will break the bank. Brownie

Thank you. For reasons having to do with this particular child and our circumstances, I am looking for the traditional intro to comp sci course to prep for AP comp sci in the fall. I say 30 hours bc while a semester hs course is traditionally 45 classroom hours, if self-paced I am guessing he can accomplish it in 30. I am becoming more open to Python; AP com sci is in Java and his older and younger brothers both know java and could help more easily if he had a question:) In addition to the recs above, for those who are interested, I've also received recs for homeschool connections (Catholic, $60 pre-recorded class, mixed reviews) and Alison which I guess is free and actually grades your work?! I've been looking for something on my own for a month and now I have a bunch of options to consider, so this is very helpful. Brownie ETA: I looked at Alison and it appears to be run by Khan, but the courses look really short. Their most comprehensive one is only 10-15 hours. My objection to AOPS is primarily being tied to their late evening schedule over the summer here on the east coast but I am watching to see what they will offer. But It might be worth it, as my younger son may do their AMC course simultaneously.

My middle son did the AMC10 as a 6th grader bc that's all our local homeschool group was offereing due to lack of interest in teh AMC8. He did well. Actually had the 2nd highest score in our group and was in the 50th percentil for test takers across the country. We tried one first to be sure it wouldn't be a total bust and stressful as a result. As soon as he got 10 right on the practice I said OK you're going. She will not age out as long as you use her real grade. I don't know why they would tell you to put her as an 8th grader. I know of no such rule. Pretty sure my same son took the AMC10 at public school, 4 years after his 1st attempt. He took the AMC8 2 years after 1st taking the AMC10. Nobody cares :)

Does anybody know of a self-paced computer programming course for my 15 year old? I know I'm being picky, but I would prefer self-paced and Java, though I would tolerate Python if it met my other criteria. AOPS has one but it's Python and not self-paced, and moderately expensive. CTY has one but the cost is exorbitant. Khan has some really interesting stuff but it doesn't look like you do any actual programming. Has anyone used it? Aleks doesn't appear to have anything at all. I am happy to pay for it so there is a sense of obligation and motivation to complete the course, but $200 seems reasonable to me for self-paced, not $800!! I just really want a traditional one semester intro to programming course, that a kid like my son with some limited background knowledge (Scratch and FLL) and a Davidson scholar, could complete with maybe 30 hours effort if left to do it at his pace. I'm having trouble locating one. Maybe one of the online homeschool companies has one? Brownie

My son did this. Probably more with pieces he knew but at an advanced level. I don't think it's a big deal...a worse habit is not practicing. Maybe talk with his teacher to communicate that he is able to do what he is doing while reading a book. Perhaps skipping through the books more quickly is called for. There will get to a point he cannot read while 1st learning a piece.

...and there is an Iowa evaluation that can be utilized to determine if a grade skip is appropriate. Studies show that gifted students do best in life with a grade skip. However, I still think you need to assess your personal situation. With 1 kid on the spectrum, I'm ever grateful we didn't accelerate him despiite missing the cutoff by only 18 days. We're not even sure he will be ready to go away to college. I did homeschool hm through 6th grade to provide the appropriate academics, but we live in a competitive school district and he is now taking 4 AP classes, a college in HS and 2 honors courses. He is plenty challenged. My 2nd son is a Davidson scholar. He could have handled acceleration but I adored his classmates and friends and 1 grade skip wouldn't have fixed much back then. I saw no reason to expose him to drugs and alcohol and leaving for school all a year earlier. We also homeschooled him through 6th grade and maintained his close friendships. And while academically 7th and 8th grade were a waste of time, now at the high school, he has plenty of work to keep him busy, plus he's really into music and the school makes some opportunities available to him he wouldn't have at home at this point. So personally, while I've had 2 kids who could have handled a grade skip (or 2) in el school, it wasn't right for our family situation in light of the options we had available. The Iowa can help with that decision though (not the standardized test...I don't know exactly what they call if but you can google it). Brownie

Yes their test score requirements require 99.9 percentile. You're right...I should have said anywhere from 1 in 1000 to 1 in 250,000,000 :) So maybe that is accurate. I thought that was the IQ score min because it's hard to differentiate beyond that as a previous poster mentioned, and then they were relying on other responses to confirm higher levels of giftedness. DS doesn't care about academics as much as I did or his older brother (who does not qualify and seems more stereotypical pg in personality but is clearly not) so it's confusing trying to figure out what he's actually capable of / how unusual he is in reality. He's meticulous but not curious. I don't want to underestimate him because i think he underestimates himself but I also don't want to expect things he's not capable of. So I guess in my head I'll just stick with 1 in 1000 as reasonable :) Thanks!

I haven't found much, if any, benefit. Perhaps also because my kid is not that intense so pg or not... Anyhow I'm just trying to figure out "how unusual" he is but as I keep reading I think it's hard to say. Stage 4 gifted is listed as ~2% of the population whereas for Stage 5 I see everything from 1 in 25,000 up to 1 in a million?!?! That's quite a difference. I would guess my son is more around 99.9%ile (1 in a thousand) but I was curious what percentile Davidson is targeting.

I'm wondering...my son was accepted to Davidson 2 years ago and I was just looking around their site. They say they serve pg and yet that pg is in 1 in million?!?! My son is not 1 in a million. Since we got into davidson using out of level standardized testing, I really don't know what his IQ is, but Davidson says 145 to get in so I always figured he was around there., which seemed logical. That's a far cry from 1 in a million...so just curious who they actually intend to serve, if anyone knows.

Apparently I stink at teaching this one thing because my oldest 2 have gone off to public school and have had a tendency to fail the bibliography component of writing assignments :( So I have a couple of questions. 1. My 6th grader is writing a paper (for an outsourced class) on the negative impact Lincoln's Assassination had on the country. He will likely mention the Gettysburg Address as an example of his strong leadership but he won't quote it or explain it. Should he site the Gettysburg Address itself? We have an online source from the Library of Congress AND a kid's book that is just the speech, but I don't know whether it gets included. You don't have to read the speech to learn about its impact, but I'm leaning toward including the Library of Congress source being appropriate? 2. We use EasyBib.com around here quite a bit. When we site a news article reprinted on the web it puts in np or some other designation to indicate page numbers weren't provided. Can we just delete that? I would leave it in if it were actual missing information like a book we didn't know the publisher when clearly there was a publisher. But in this case there is no actual page number - at least not on the web re-print (eg New York Time article from 1865 or LA Time article from 2015). Thanks! Brownie