2ndGenHomeschooler
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44 minutes ago, ScoutTN said:
Yeah, I’d not be paying for a year of “camp” either. Sounds like you are right on that her interests and desires can be met in many other ways than going away for college. Maybe investigate Christian gap year programs that offer service/work and discipleship and the adventure of being away from home?
It feels weird to discourage a year of Bible college. So many people we know think it‘s wonderful. But there are so many cheaper, easier ways to study the Bible if that’s what she really wants to do. Unless she wanted to go into some sort of ministry of course, but that’s not her goal. This is a tough one for me because I have a lot of baggage in this area. I don’t want to bring that into it or let it color my perspective, but of course it does in some ways. I’m sure it‘a not exactly like being camp for a year. I think the friends’ mom who was telling me about was describing it to me that way as a selling point, but I don’t think young adults need to spend a year at “camp” so that was another check in the negative box for me.
So here I am trying to find and walk a fine line between supporting my DD while also encouraging her to think carefully about what she chooses to do. We can’t pay for it, and it’s nice in a way that we don’t have the option. I’m not helping fill out the application but I answer questions about it if she asks. I encouraged her to read through the website and handbook carefully, read about the teachers, and listen to them speak if she can find anything online. I filled out the FAFSA and will be sure her transcript is ready. I told her some of my concerns but also let her know that I‘d support whatever decision she makes. I’m researching other options. And then I’m hoping and praying that everything works out as it’s supposed to. Parenting young adults is hard.
Thanks for the suggestion of Christian gap year programs. I wasn’t quite sure what search term to use and I think this will be helpful.
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27 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:
It's a problem living in a HCOL area like the northeast - the schools and FAFSA absolutely do NOT take regional COL into account, so earning a even very modest income here will take you out of the running for a lot of need-based aid, and if you're just plain old middle class they act like you're rich and please give us ALL your money. 😡
YES! On paper it looks like we make a lot of money. But less than six figures for a family of six in this state puts us below middle class according to what I’ve read. My DH is a first responder and I’ve supplemented his income over the years teaching piano lessons and now cleaning an Airbnb. Our kids work odd jobs and get regular jobs as soon as they are able to provide their own spending money. We’ve learned to live within our means and are mostly comfortable but these college calculators seem to think our income goes further than it actually does. It’s ok. We’ve managed to provide our kids some great opportunities by doing a lot of research, being resourceful, and thinking outside the box. We’ll just have to do the same for college.
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18 minutes ago, kokotg said:
I say this every time a thread like this comes up, but I do think a lot of lowish income parents with academically high-achieving students aren't aware that there so many schools out there that meet demonstrated need or come close (often through a combo of need-based and merit aid). Either they don't think their income is low enough for significant aid or they don't think their kids can get in because they assume every school that meets need is Harvard level or they just aren't aware of the vast landscape of colleges out there beyond public universities. It's certainly true that this won't be helpful for every situation, by a long shot, but it's definitely worth running some net price calculators at colleges that meet demonstrated need and seeing what things look like before you rule them out. AND looking at student profiles at some of these schools to see if your kid has a shot...they're not all Ivy League and equivalent schools. Just to throw one example out there, St. Olaf meets demonstrated need and has a 66% acceptance rate in the non-binding Early Action round. 1350 median SAT/30 ACT. So it's not easy to get into, exactly, but it's not Harvard, either. With the caveat, as pointed out by Farrar, that most of these schools are need aware, so borderline kids with greater financial need are going to lose out to borderline kids who can pay full price. I've sent two kids to private colleges that meet need now and in both cases it's been as cheap or cheaper than keeping them in-state (but living on campus) would have been, and that's even living in a state where tuition would have been free for them (i.e. we would have been responsible for room and board and fees). And we're not rich by any means, but we're not destitute, either.
I have heard this, but I don’t think we’d be considered low income and my kids aren’t high achieving academically. I pretty much dragged one through school and the next one didn’t start really applying herself til this year. And she struggles with math. My next one does pretty well but has no desire to go to college and is very likely dyslexic which gets in the way sometimes.
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36 minutes ago, Lori D. said:
I would really look hard at what the 1-year Bible certificate will help her with. It may totally be worth it just for the education/knowledge gained, and the opportunity to spread her wings and be out on her own -- but that can be a very expensive sort of way to gain that experience -- esp. if mom & dad are paying for some/all of it, or if DD has to go into debt for it.
Could the Bible learning/education happen at home through an online program?
Could the going away experience happen through a work-abroad kind of program?
What about just getting a job and moving into an apartment with a friend and start living actual "adulting"?
Or a volunteering/missions sort of program where her work there pays for her living expenses?
What about AmeriCorps?
Secular, domestic version of the Peace Corps; you volunteer (no pay, but are given food/housing stipend), and work in the area you apply for/are accepted somewhere in the U.S.; the length of your volunteering commitment (3-, 6-, 9-, or 12-months) provides a college tuition credit at the end of that time that can be used any time in the 7 years after earning it. ((Our DS#2 served 9 months with a trail restoration group under AmeriCorps, and earned a $4,000 credit that he thought he would never use, but when he moved into wildland firefighting, he was able to use it to pay his tuition for an accelerated EMT course)
All that to say, do a lot of research with your 19yo, and have a lot of talks:
- WHY does she want to go to college?
- And what is her end goal, not only about college, but beyond?
- How (or not) would a 1-year certificate from a Bible College help her get to those goals?
- Why that Bible College? (is it just for the fun of a year-long "sleep over" with a friend 😉 )
- Has she done any career exploration -- both to see what's out there, but also how does a person get to that career of interest -- does it take a college degree? Maybe only on-the-job training, or a certificate, or an Associate's (AAS) degree? Or maybe not only a Bachelor's, but also a Master's and maybe a PhD? And if it does take advanced degrees, how would THOSE be paid for?If career exploration would be a good first step, check out the bottom of PAGE 6 of that College Motherlode thread pinned at the top of the WTM college board. Here are a few to get you started:
CAREER EXPLORATION
Career testing/counseling (2nd post links tons of resources for tests, exploration, curricula, etc.)career exploration
How to explore possible career/major fits?
Ideas for [putting together a] course on career research/planningcareer tests
Best free or cheap career tests?
Career aptitude testing free?
How to explore possible career/major fits?career guidance
How do you do career guidance as a homeschooler?
College and career planning
How to help students choose a career (responses include ideas for career exploration)This DD has been a puzzle to me for all of her teenage years. She greatly disliked school and pushed back all through high school. We eventually managed to accomplish the absolute basics. She’s artist and creative and enjoys painting, drawing, crocheting, music, baking, flower arranging, etc. She did NOT like it if I tried to incorporate these things into her school work in any way. She does not want to work in any related fields. She thinks if she does any of these things for a job that she’ll end up hating them. She’s excellent with kids and running a group and teaching. She’s not interested in making a career out of any of those things either.
She has a friend at the Bible college and another going in the spring. They tell her school is like being at camp. The one friend has been there a year already, is on the soccer team, involved in music, and has a boyfriend. DD isn’t breaking into that and I’ve tried to gently point that out. She isn’t interested in the limited sports opportunities there or participating in the very conservative music programs. So she would take a bunch of Bible classes. She enjoyed a Bible Study she did locally and thinks she might enjoy getting the Bible certificate. Except that she absolutely hates to write (it took until her senior year before she could write an almost decent paragraph), and isn’t understanding that she will have to write in school.
I think she mostly wants an experience away from home. I don’t think this is a good way to get it. I worry that the school seems legalistic and I would prefer my kids avoid that. I don’t think it’s a good use of her time or money. I don’t see how it would allow for any of the things she loves and that make her who she is. I’ve had a few conversations with her about it, trying to share my concerns as carefully as possible while also figuring out exactly what she‘s looking to accomplish there. I think there are much better ways to find what she’s looking for. A local young adult Bible Study, getting an apartment with a friend, a short term missions trip or volunteer work, anything really.
She has recently started a full time job that basically dropped into her lap out of nowhere. She’s saving most of what she makes toward this certificate program. She’s working for a small company building camera scopes. She seems to really enjoy it and it sounds like she’s picking it up quickly. I’m hoping working there gives her some direction. In the meantime, I’m trying to walk a fine line of being supportive while also sharing my own experiences, regrets, and concerns.
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13 minutes ago, teachermom2834 said:
You also just don’t know how other people are paying for college. They may be taking on tons of debt or they may have an inheritance or grandparents that are paying or any variety of factors.
But none of that is a reality for my family. Great if you have grandparents to pay and I have found a lot of people do or you had an inheritance you set aside or you know an inheritance is coming someday and so taking on some debt is reasonable. That is all so far fetched from my life experience that I really didn’t realize how many people do live that reality. For those of us that don’t, listening to 8’s advice and Scout’s perspective is really helpful.
Another thing to keep in mind, and it sounds like you are there, is to be realistic. A lot of people throw out “you never know!” and “millions of scholarship money goes unclaimed” and “there is tons of financial aid available” and the reality is you can get a pretty good idea from net price calculators. Rarely does money just show up unexpected and make the impossible possible.
Yes, I’ve heard all the “tons of financial aid” and “unclaimed scholarship money” points a lot. I didn’t quite realize how unrealistic that could all be. Also, my oldest two DD are unlikely, I think, to score higher than average on SAT/ACT tests so additional aid for high scores won’t be an option. Maybe I’ll encourage them to at least take some practice tests to see.
We won’t have help from grandparents for sure. One set has offered but their help will be refused as they will likely be unable to really even provide for themselves in a few years. There is one relative who could help with college expenses, but while we have a good relationship, it’s not nearly close enough to expect or ask for help.
I was playing around with some net price calculators this morning and its looking like living at home while taking the CC -> state university route will be by far the cheapest. Since the girls will be paying for school themselves I think I will encourage them to do this for the schools they’re looking at attending. Might help the “reality” conversations going forward.
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37 minutes ago, 8filltheheart said:
Fwiw, our kids do not pick the schools they want to attend bc they want to attend there. That simply isn't their reality. Unless your dd is considering schools that offer extremely generous grant or merit aid that she will qualify for, without parental assistance, that is most likely not going to be your dd's reality, either. Just room and board can run between $10K-20K/yr. Then you have tuition, books, fees. That is why I posted the chart listing maximum federal student loans. Most students are not going to be able to fund 4 yrs of a non-commuter school without parental funding. (One of our dd's received a full tuition scholarship to a private that was worth about $70K/yr. She still couldn't afford to attend bc room and board would have been between $18-20k/yr. That is way outside of our budget and there was no way for her to fund that herself.)
I can share what my kids have found. Private schools are not an option. We make too much money for them to qualify for institutional grant aid. Most privates do not allow scholarship $$ to stack. (Stacking means that they can be awarded multiple different scholarships without the school eliminating the awards. There are schools that determine familial contribution and if a student wins additional scholarships, the school will start eliminating institutional aid so that the net difference remains the same.)
Only my extremely competitive kids have been able to afford to go away to college. My current college sr and my high school sr are not in that category. My college sr is attending the local 4 yr U on automatic scholarship $$, but she was not an academically strong enough student to compete for scholarships that would pay for housing. My current high school sr is taking the SAT again next weekend to see if she can get her score high enough to qualify for the next level of automatic scholarship $$. ($$ amts go up with score) If she can't raise her score, she will start at the local CC and then transfer to the local 4 yr to finish.
Anyway, the long way to my pt is that budget is their very first filter. Cost and major are the only 2 filters they can use. Their process is way different than kids who have parents who will fund whatever college costs they face.
The more I read, the more I think this will be our reality too. I want DD to attend the private Christian school she’s looking at. I think it would be a good fit for her and it‘s where her friends will be, but I’m not willing to do it at the expense of DH and I taking on debt we really can’t afford. We have worked very hard and live very frugally to remain debt free (except our mortgage). We have other DC at home to consider and we want to be financially set as we age so that our adult DC are not burdened financially caring for us (as we may be with one set of our parents). The friends who are sending their kids away to school seem to be in similar financial situations as us so I assumed we’d be able to make the same decisions. Now I’m realizing that there may be many other factors and perspectives involved.
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6 hours ago, Matryoshka said:
Which state? Each New England state is different in what the state schools are like. I'm in MA and there's great CC -> public Uni agreements, especially if you're intentional about which courses you take and what will transfer to which programs/majors.
I know less about the other states. New England states do not have the generous automatic scholarships a lot of southern/Midwestern states seem to.
We’re in CT. I think there’s good CC to university agreements here but DD isn’t really interested in going there at this point. Maybe we should look into it though.
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7 hours ago, Shoeless said:
Ruin her ability to apply? That seems a bit dramatic. Community college doesn't ruin someone for future college coursework at a 4-year institution.
OP, many states have transfer agreements between the community colleges and the state universities. Some of them, like NY, even have guarantees that if a student graduates with an A.S. or A.A. from a state c.c., they have guaranteed admission to a 4-year state school.
The student needs to make sure they are taking courses that will transfer from cc to a 4-year university. Taking classes willy-nilly without making sure they fit the transfer plan isn't a good idea. I have a 2-year degree from community college. My 200-level microbiology class would transfer to a state university because the state uni has a course that is comparable in scope and sequence to my previous course. My applied-veterinary-nursing classes would not transfer in as anything but "general elective credit" because the 4-year uni does not have a comparable course or program.
It's the same with CLEP exams. Some schools will grant credit for the Chemistry CLEP, others won't, (as an example). It all depends on how closely the exam matches what that particular school teaches. You can look this information up on the school's website and determine whether or not it makes sense for your student to take a particular exam. Most CLEP exams are freshman college level courses. There are a few that come in as sophomore level, but it's mostly 100 level. These can be a good way to knock out general education classes, provided you know that the receiving institution will accept the exam and grant the credit where you need it.
You can also get a lot of information about a school's financials by googling <name of school> common data set. You can find out how likely it is your kids will be accepted into the school, what their admissions requirements are, what the requirements are for transfer students, if they accept CLEP, AP, DSST, military credits. etc.
I know we need to make sure her credits will transfer if we go that route. I learned that this summer talking to a friend who’s fighting her DC school to accept something. That was, I think, the point where I realized there was more to this than I first thought.
I think our state has guaranteed admission between CC and state 4 year schools. Problem is, DD wants to go out of state after CC. We may need to rethink that. Or at least do a lot more research before we decide.
Good tip for how to search for information. Thanks.
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12 hours ago, Farrar said:
You can call financial aid offices. Yes. Please do. Yes, they'll usually be pretty honest, but remember they want you to apply and are still a bit in the sales end.
You can also fill out the NET PRICE CALCULATOR. These are usually good estimates. They're something you should do in conjunction with talking to the aid office. The aid office can speak generally. The NPC will be a computer calculation based on your actual finances, which you'll enter.
Students can take the SAT after graduation.
SAT scores can be useful for merit at some schools, meaningless at others. There's zero way for anyone to make a blanket statement.
It's possible that your student can apply test optional. Especially at this point.
Finally, I saw you mention community college. Once a graduated student take a college course of any kind, they risk becoming a transfer student. Please keep that in mind before choosing to go that route. If she wants to go to a four year school, then she needs to not start community college until she understands if the courses won't ruin her ability to apply where she wants.
I didn’t realize that attending CC first could effect the cost of the four year school later. That’s really good to know. Another thing to check into. We were thinking of skipping the SAT since it wouldn’t be needed for CC but maybe we should consider doing it anyway. I really should have started researching all of this sooner. But I had no idea there could be so much to consider.
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1 hour ago, ScoutTN said:
Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, New Mexico, South Carolina, Tennessee, and West Virginia have lottery-funded merit scholarships. Info on those is available at the states’ .gov websites.
We’re in New England. Are these scholarships for residents of those states or anyone?
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7 hours ago, Farrar said:
I'll bullet point it for you. The cost...
- Very few families pay what we call "sticker price." That's the price on the website that it says the college costs.
- There is something called the EFC, which is changing to the SAI this year with the new FAFSA. This is the amount the government has determined, based on your income and finances, that your family can pay. You're "full pay" if that number is above the sticker price for a school. If it's very small, like $5k or even zero or a negative number, then you're high need. Many families fall somewhere in between. And that's not the only calculation of need going on.
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The cost the college offers you depends on two things:
- YOUR income. They are either offering you financial aid based on your income or gaming out how much they think you can pay based on your income. This is need-based aid, but sometimes it can also be classified as merit-based aid even though the school is offering it based partly on your income and what they think they can get you to give them for your kid to attend.
- How much above the school's stats your student is. The more above the school's average stats, the more likely they are to offer the student additional money to attend. That's merit-aid.
- Private universities give a lot of aid. Tippy top schools may ONLY give need-based aid and zero merit. They are basing it only on your demonstrated family need.
- Some private universities, especially ones with a greater than 60% acceptance rate or so may give mostly merit aid. At many of these schools, close to 100% of students are receiving merit aid.
- Many public universities give a lot less aid than private ones. It really depends on the school and the state. Some give to out of state students, some only to in state students.
- You cannot know what price a school will offer you unless you do the NET PRICE CALCULATOR for the specific school. It will vary from school to school. Remember, different schools give different types of aid.
The loans...
- The majority of students can take out federal student loans. These begin at $5500 for the first year for most students and increase a bit each year. That's all traditional students can borrow on their own. That's IT.
- Other loans are loans that parents are taking out with the student. You should be very careful about these. Especially be careful about the Parent PLUS loans. I usually advise families not to take those. The terms aren't great.
- In other words, just because a student gets in somewhere, they can't just, boom, take out the total amount to go. They don't let them. The amount they're allowed to take is really small.
Getting funded...
- The right schools to apply to based on the above depend on the level of need based aid and merit based aid.
- There are lots of schools that meet full need, but those schools tend to be very hard to get into.
- Some of the schools that meet full need are taking it into account when evaluating your student. They meet full need... but only if they let your student in. They may limit how many high need students they admit each year. The schools that are both meets need and need blind (see that list) are nearly all single digit acceptance schools.
- Starting at a community college may save money or not. There tends to be more need-based aid for first year students. And the graduation rates are better as well (less time spent getting the degree is less money spent). But also, sometimes it's the only path a family can afford and it's not like there isn't any aid for transfer students. It depends on lots of factors.
Thank you! I filled out the FAFSA this summer when DD19 surprised us with “I want to college”. But then I never heard anything back. I was reading in another thread that there’s a specific time this needs to be filled out? Is that right? I’ve done some calculators for estimates and it looks like we might be in the “high needs” category, or slightly above depending on the estimate. We don’t want our kids to have tons of debt so I’m glad there are limits, but that also limits their options a lot. But that could be a helpful place to start as well.
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8 hours ago, teachermom2834 said:
On one hand, it is complicated. On the other, my kids are priced out of the vast vast majority of schools which narrows it considerably and makes it far less complicated in the end.
Starting at cc and/or living at home and commuting are great ways to start off saving money and making college affordable. For various reasons, my 3 that have gone to college so far have been very set on going away to four year schools. We couldn’t pay much beyond a couple thousand dollars broken up in pieces for help with books or parking or incidentals but didn’t qualify for pell grants or huge financial aid packages. So here is how it went for us:
Oldest went to a private school on a combo of some of the biggest merit aid offered by his school, some financial aid grants, a large outside scholarship from my dh’s employer, and the federal student loans (for students, not parents) and his summer earnings which were about $8000 each summer. So it took alot from a lot of sources. He was an excellent student and very hard worker. Great college experience and outcome. No regrets. But not everyone can simply piece together this scenario. It took alot of things coming together and probably only possible at this one particular school. So there is no recipe for this.
Second ds went out of state to a large public school on combination of merit scholarships, federal student loans, help from us, summer earnings, and some small financial aid grants from the university. He finished in 5 semesters with some summer classes because he had tons of de credits from high school. So he ended up with almost the max in loans even though he was only there five semesters. So his scenario worked out ok but really only because he finished quickly. Four years there would have been very expensive but getting out and getting to work made it ok. Again, it worked out but was kind of a unique situation. Not really a recipe you can follow.
Third ds is my highest achiever. He had super high test scores and unique/impressive leadership extracurriculars. He had tunnel vision about attending our state flagship and was going to go there on their largest automatic merit scholarship which honestly still left a large bill that he would have covered with loans and summer and school earnings and there was still a bit of a gap more than we were happy about paying for. He got a call at the end of April that he was an alternate for their full ride scholarship and someone had turned it down so now he is there on a full ride plus and works as an RA and in admissions and has banked a lot of money. So…again it is complicated.
So we have gotten three through on a combo of very good academics yielding merit aid, student earnings, and some moderate student loans with just some parental support which was less than we paid for homeschooling them. But it wasn’t easy and it was complicated and when people ask how we did it, there isn’t an easy recipe so I hate when people say “teachermom’s kid got a full scholarship so ask her what to do” or things like that because it really isn’t that easy.
Generally speaking, being open minded to living at home and starting at cc or somewhere local where you can commute is probably a great start. Beyond that looking at the specific schools they are considering and speaking to someone there is going to be your best bet.
Interesting to hear the different paths your kids have taken. Thank you. My DH and I want to help our kids as much as possible but it really looks like that will be smaller amounts here and there to help with books and/or incidentals, rather than paying for school in general.
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8 hours ago, Melanie32 said:
Agreed that there are so many variables. Right now I am navigating the college path with my daughter. She is a first generation college student. We research a lot! To cut costs down, she is getting her AA at the local state college and then transferring to a university for her bachelors degree.
It depends on where you live, what college your child wants to attend and what degree they are pursuing. My daughter has been able to save a lot of money through CLEP tests. So far she has saved several thousand dollars this way. She has been able to clep out of 3/4 of her AA for free.
She has also chosen a more affordable university that she can drive back and forth to so she can save dorm costs.
DD19 insisted she was never going to college so I didn’t look into it much for her. I figured if she ever went it would be to our local community college. Then out of nowhere this summer she told us she wanted to get away for a year for the experience and wants to go to a small Bible college with a friend for a one year Bible certificate. Not my first choice for her at all but I’m trying to be supportive and figure this out.
DD17 is a senior and plans to start at community college and then transfer to a four year school to finish her degree. Our state has a free tuition program that includes homeschoolers so I think we can do that. We just need to make sure the credits will transfer to the school she wants to go to. And that that school is a viable option. Right now her plan includes getting a doctorate in her field of interest. I don’t really see that being the best fit for her, but again, I’m trying to be supportive and figure out how this could work.
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15 hours ago, Bootsie said:
There are so many variables that factor into the financial decidsiosn related to college expenses that it is dificult to state one particular way. It really depends upon your family's financial situation, the child's financial situation, whether the child is likelly to get merit aid, what the student is considering studying, your family's comfort with debt, how your family prioritizes college education in budgetin, and what school is being considered.
If you have specific schools you are considering for each of these students, I would schedule an appointment with the financial aid office at those schools. Be frank about your family's situation and ask them to be frank about the expense of attending and the types of financial aid that are likely to be available. Then you will have an idea of these plans are anywhere in the ballpark of being reasonable for your family and merit further consideration or if you need to consider alternatives .
So I can talk to the financial aid offices of schools even before they apply? That would be helpful. Are they likely to give me accurate information and a decent ballpark figure? Not exact of course, but close enough to be useful?
A question about merit aid….how would I know if my DC are likely to get merit aid? Is this based off of SAT/ACT test scores? Neither of my older DDs have taken these. Can students who have already graduated take them?
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I need someone to explain paying for college, like you’d explain it to a 5 year old. DH and I know next to nothing about how this works. I didn’t attend college and grew up in circles where college was discouraged and therefore not discussed. DH went to one semester at a small private Christian school but it was paid for with preacher kid discounts and an on campus job.
So many people send their kids to school that I figured the process couldn’t be too complicated. Now I have a couple of kids looking to go next year and I’m realizing that it’s very complicated. And expensive. DH and I aren’t going to be able to contribute much, if anything. And I’m reading that there are limits to how much students can borrow? DC are working and saving to be able to pay for school themselves but I’m not sure that will be enough and I’m not sure if their savings will count against the aid they can get.
So how does this work? I don’t want them to have loads of debt, although I guess we need to plan on some, and DH and I aren’t comfortable taking any on. DD19 is looking at a one year certificate program at a tiny private Christian school, mostly for the experience. DD17 is planning to start at CC and then transfer to a larger private Christian school. But I don’t know how to navigate this financially.
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13 hours ago, ScoutTN said:
Can you do a light Geometry with her, so she feels like she’s moving ahead, while also reviewing Algebra?
I’d drop the speech if it causes that much stress, finding another way to work on her writing.
I think you are wise to insist on college prep basics. Keep those options open. Sounds like you are doing a great job overall. Hang in there!!
We’ve already done a light Geometry (MUS). She did fine with it. She seems to be coming around to the necessity of reviewing Algebra. I think she’s been talking to friends who are either in college or making plans to go and she’s realizing that she won’t be able to get out of taking math in college. I think it’s finally sinking in that her best bet is to review as much as possible this year, fill in the holes and gaps, and be as solid as possible in what she DOES know. I’m not sure we’ll get all the way through Algebra 2 again, but we’re making good progress on Algebra 1 so far, just finding little things that she’s forgotten or never quite understood completely.
I’m really considering dropping speech for DD3. I need to talk to DH about. This is something he’s insisting on. He’s usually fine with me doing whatever I want for school and doesn’t really have much of an opinion, but for some reason he feels very strongly about this. But I’m going to talk to him about letting her drop it. There’s about 10 weeks left so she might just have to push through and do it. We definitely won’t be making her do it past this semester though.
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23 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:
Suppose your dd does a semester of theatre or films herself reading speeches or something like that instead. There's more than one way to skin a cat.
She is actually in a musical. Rehearsals start next month and the performance is in the spring. After watching DD2 compete in speech last year, DH feels strongly that the other two try it out for one season. They don’t have to compete, just attend the classes, do the homework, and deliver the speech they prepare at the end. I don’t disagree with him exactly, but I am having some doubts about the importance of it for this particular child.
24 minutes ago, freesia said:Yes, it is hard. It’s especially hard when they are complaining, because it sucks all the fun and joy out of it for us.
The speech thing in my house with your third would be anxiety related. She’s just gone once. I would probably have her see it through but consider coming along side her to help her manage her anxiety.
The algebra thing is hard. Does she have the scores she needs to go to college? How about switching to consumer math and having her do 15 minutes of algebra a day with you? I wasn’t feeling my dd was super solid in algebra but she was horrified about repeating it. So we do 15 minutes a day and then geometry.
I think the speech thing is anxiety related. It‘s interesting. This DD was in a musical last year and had a solo. She teaches groups of kids at karate. So it‘s not the being on stage or in front of a group that’s the problem. I think it’s the idea of sharing her own thoughts and opinions. Which is a different, but also valuable skill. I do think she’ll feel better about it after a few more weeks. The teachers are kind and reasonable. The class is small and fairly laid back. The goal is really to help each individual student move forward from where they are.
DD2 has done Algebra 1 and 2 and geometry. We’ve done a little consumer math but just bits and pieces here and there. I don’t grade much, we just make corrections together, so I don’t know where she‘d score on any tests. I should have slowed her down at some point last year. She was getting lost and we weren’t reviewing enough. But she was doing the same math as DD3 and trying to keep up (these girls have VERY different interests and strengths). She was discouraged that her younger sister was having an easier time of it and quit trying. But it’s my fault too for not slowing down. So we’re reviewing starting with Algebra 1 to figure out where exactly the breakdown happened. She did better this week working hard and being willing to accept my help. We’ll see how it goes moving forward and possibly switch gears if it‘s not working.
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I know probably most homeschool parents doubt themselves at times. Usually I can confidently proceed with my plan in spite of the kids’ minor complaints. They usually get over it and do what I ask, and I have confidence in my decisions. But tonight I’m doubting myself and really wondering if I’m the right thing.
My kids are involved in a fair number of activities, all carefully chosen. Most are things they want to do, but not always. A lot of thought and research goes into the school subjects we study and the materials we will use. I’m open to change if it’s obvious that it’s needed but I also think sometimes teenagers just have to do things they don’t want to do.
But sometimes it’s so hard to know if I’m doing the right thing. My oldest pushed back against almost all schoolwork. I insisted that she at least cover the basics at a basic level. But there were times I really wondered if I should just let her unschool and follow her interests, which are all artistic in nature. She insisted she had no plans of attending college. I’ve graduated her now and she works full time. Now she’s talking about college. Makes me feel better for pushing her.
My second is a senior and struggles with math. So this year I decided that we’re going to back track and spend the year reviewing Algebra. She has been really unhappy about this. She knows she can’t go on but she also hates going back. I’ve wondered if I should just accept that math isn’t her strength and not worry about it this year. But she has big college plans and she’ll need to be able to do math. So we press on. She‘s had a better attitude about it this week at least.
This year my DH and I decided that our three DC who are still in school will all participate in a local speech club for the fall as part of their English credit for this year. DD2 did it last year and loved it. She competed and advanced to regionals. It’s an EC for her. DS is reluctantly participating but doesn’t complain much. He’s willing to go just to see his friends another day each week. DD3 HATES it. (Between vacation and sickness she’s only attended once so far.) She is my child who is least likely to complain about things. But she cried last week while she was getting ready to go and tonight she’s crying while working on the homework. At this point a lot of the homework is working on writing her speech. She generally writes fine but we think the feedback from someone besides me will be useful. We also think a little experience standing in front of a group and speaking is useful for everyone. But she really isn’t happy about it. We told her we just want her to do it for one semester but that’s not helping. I hate seeing her so miserable and am wondering if I should let her drop out.
Being a parent is hard sometimes. Being a homeschooling parent is hard sometimes. Being a parent of four teenagers is hard sometimes. That’s all.
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3 minutes ago, Katy said:
Yes, anyone who wants to see it will be able to see it. It will show in their notifications.
What do you mean “anyone who wants to see”? Does that mean that people can have their settings in a way that allows them to see whatever their friends comment on? Or just that if they looked for comments they could find them?
If my comments on a public page that I follow show up in my friends’ notifications…..yikes. I don’t like that at all.
Maybe I just won’t comment anymore. I seldom do unless I have something that I think would be really helpful to someone else. But these comments could also be hurtful to people I care about. Not because I intend to hurt anyone, of course, but because my views now differ from some people I care about who ate in public positions. I’d rather they not find out about that on social media. The page has been helpful to me in processing some things but I’m thinking it’d be best to read only, rather than joining in the conversation.
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If I comment on a post on a page I follow, will be friends be able to see it if they don’t also follow that page? I know it‘s a public page so technically what I post is visible. I’m wondering if my friends need to also follow the page in order to see my comments or if this public page, and my comments, will show up in my friends’ feed just because I commented.
I recently commented on something that I’m not sure I want my whole friends list to see. If they also follow that page, that’s fine. But it’s a different viewpoint than many in my circles and I don’t know if I’m ready for my opinions to be quite that public to some people I’m close to. If there’s a low chance all of my friends can see the page and the comments then I’ll leave them. But if everyone can see them I think I’ll delete them and not comment again.
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3 hours ago, AnneGG said:
For real.
Max Lucado talked a little bit about this in his podcast this week. I don’t usually listen to it, but it just happened to pop up in my queue this morning. I’m like this is good! Preach!
Oh! I’ll have to listen to that.
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The first step to solving a problem is realizing that you have one. So good job there. I understand the feeling like you have to do all the things. I did that when my kids were younger. But I can assure you, it absolutely will backfire.
One year I tried to do ALL of the math to make sure we didn’t have any holes and had covered each topic from all angles. We used Singapore math as our main curriculum. (BTW, have you done a placement test to be sure Dimensions 4 is the correct placement for your DD? Or did she do Dimensions 3 in school last year? Math placement is important!). To that we added Beast Academy a couple days a week so DC could have some experience with the discovery method. Then we did Life of Fred on Fridays along with math games. We did math facts speed drills and flash cards every day. There might have been another curriculum too but I don’t remember now. The result of trying to use all of these math programs? We burnt out and made very little math progress that year. My DC were confused because of the constantly changing topics, styles, and terminology. Everyone hated math and fought me on it and so learned nothing. The next year we went back to just one program and slowed it down and it went SO much better.
If you REALLY want to use multiple programs for one subject, then do as others have suggested and plan it out so that you’re only doing one at a time. (And don’t do it for math. That was a complete disaster.) I have used multiple programs for history before and it was fine. But do units as a PP suggested or plan how they fit together in advance. I used multiple history programs because I liked and disliked different parts of each. So before the school year started, I’d gather the curriculum and supplements I wanted to use and see how I could fit them together. I was really using them as tools to teach the topics I wanted to teach. For example, one day we’d read a chapter of SOTW, the next day we’d read a library book on the same topic, then we’d watch videos online and look at related pages in a history encyclopedia, then we’d finish the week with a map. But we didn’t do all of that in one day and I had a plan going in (flexible and open to change, but a plan).
Forth grade can be a really fun year. Learn some math, improve writing skills, read fiction and nonfiction on whatever interests you both, do some science and history, go on field trips, have some great conversations. But please don’t be pressured to have your 10 year old learn all the things right now. She has years and years of school and life left to learn things. Your goal is to make her WANT to continue learning at the end of this school year.
Oh….and absolutely listen to whatever Lori and 8filltheheart tell you. They know what they’re talking about!
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28 minutes ago, EKS said:
I know, right? I don't think that anyone should be speaking publicly about homeschooling unless they've gotten at least one kid all the way through K-12--and preferably more than one!
I’ve graduated one and know less about homeschooling now than when I started 14 years ago. So I’m not that person. Ha! I have another senior this year so maybe when she’s done I’ll be qualified. Then again, she started school today (by her own choice) and we’d already had an argument about school before 10am so it’s not looking hopeful.
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3 hours ago, AnneGG said:
There are several curricula companies that preach this. Maybe it’s a becoming a trend? Although, there’s an infamous curriculum that has already done this. Think Shiny Happy People.
I’m all too familiar with that other curriculum, unfortunately. You’d think other companies and organizations would learn from the massive failures of the ones who’ve gone before.
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Explain paying for college
in The College Board
Posted
She is working full time right now to earn the money. I don’t know about other options. I asked her if she was interested in looking at other options and she said she wants to see if this works out first. In the meantime, I’m researching other options to see if I can find something more affordable, that would suite who she is better, and that I would be more comfortable with.