I've had one chid take Clover Creek Physics and another take Derek Owen's Physics. So I think I can compare. I would say that Derek Owen's physics was more difficult. Clover Creek physics was easier and MUCH more fun. (But not EASY, they will be doing real physics with plenty of math.).

Have you used Notgrass before? I am looking for some reviews. 🙂

Hi Again, I just found a thread that pretty much perfectly answers my question. So please ignore. I am going to ask the moderators to delete this so we can all get on with our February planning. 🙂

Hello Hive, Is anyone familiar with either or both of these teachers? Could you help me decide between them? I have heard wonderful things about Ms. Inspektor, but my DS is worried that the workload in her classes looks VERY heavy. Ms. Serbicki's class looks a bit lighter. (He will be in 10th grade taking AP chem and debate, so I don't want him to be overly scheduled.). Feel free to PM me if you have any feedback you want to share that way too! Thanks in advance your help! Cathy

How I give assignments: I use a program called Homeschool Planet to keep our family organized. I input assignments from all of their classes into one place. I use this for online classes that I have "out sourced" and classes I am teaching myself. I also use it to keep tabs on all of the other things my teens do in a day...from chores to reminders to prepare for events/appointments. (Example: Lay out your suit for debate and iron your shirt might appear on it!). It links automatically to our families digital calendar so I can see everything we have going on in the day--which also helps my kids and I to visually plan our time/cut things when we have appointments outside of the house. It does take some initial work to set up, but then it gives me ONE place where I can look to see that ALL of my kids have done all that I have told them to. It is actually really nice. If my kid says, "I am done with school can I do X or Y?" I can quickly pull up their checklist and verify. 🙂. Easy! I can also easily take days off (and the schedule adjusts), carry over assignments to the next week and shift the schedule -or- double up if we choose, work ahead, move assignment to days that were previously scheduled off (and see what that does to the rest of our year), etc. How I keep my teens accountable: Of course, a digital checklist only works if students are honest about checking things off. So if a student "says" they have finished math and checks off their little box, as an example, you still have to make sure they really DID finish math. Right? You can't just assume that a child is going to be honest all of the time about that stuff. And you have to make sure that a certain level of work is maintained. So, I've had to let them know that IF they tell me something is finished and "check" their box on homeschool, they had better be telling the truth. Otherwise there will be pretty strict consequences. I've also built in lot of parental verification into their checklist, but I shift the burden of getting this done over to them. I have way too many "plates spinning" and if we have to rely on my memory alone, things are going to get messed up. 😉 Especially when I don't necessarily micromanage their time. Some example of how I shift the burden over to them: The math assignment doesn't just say: "Do math problems X-Z on pg. 123". It says, "Do math problems X-Z on pg. 123. Check using the key in the back of the book. Correct problems you have missed and ask for help on anything you don't understand. You can check this off when I have signed and dated the page." (A little copy and past when I entering in math assignments makes all of these reminders easy! SO--the student is not able to mark this complete on homeschool planet until they have brought it to me (with a pen even) and showed me their completed work and I have signed it. Again, if they check it off before I looked at it, there are consequences....and I have proof with my signature (or lack of signature) that I didn't put eyes on it that day. I will often be teaching another child, and they will just come and show me their work and I will sign and date it. I will occasionally do a spot check too. As another example with a class I am not teaching, their Latin teacher tells them to practice their quizlet flashcards each day. So their checklist does not just say "Study Latin vocabulary." It says: "Practice Latin flashcards on quizlet. Send me a screen shot when you are finished." This literally takes them 5 seconds to send to me. On their laptop, phone or tablet, they will quickly capture the screen and press share button. So even if I am busy with another child, they can work on this and get it "verified" when they want. ETA: On stuff that I need to actually grade and review, I have a time scheduled each day with each child. Their homeschool planet checklist reminds them about their "meeting" time and it might say, "Bring your final draft to me at 1PM on Tuesday Feb. 1". I grade or review the stuff RIGHT then because I have found that timely feedback is important. (I used to have a grading basket, and that didn't work out well because I would get too far behind for real education to happen!). AND....for all tests and quizzes (even for online classes), their homeschool planet checklist always says, "Take text 1. Your desk must be cleared and this must be proctored to count." How do I work towards independence: I stay hands-on in the beginning, and then SLOWLY....very SLOWLY, shift responsibility for things over to them as they prove they are ready for the responsibility. As an example, my 9th grader is taking AP Gov't with AIM Academy. So, I am not even teaching the class and assignments are given through canvas. I might be tempted to just say..."Go learn Gov't! Good luck!" But I dont' do that. At first, I will shadow the class (watch with them in the background) and get a feel for how the class will be taught and structured. I will even copy over their canvas assignments into homeschool planet in the beginning so they are reminded about what they have to do. And I will help the student to figure out how to plan their week and their time. (It takes a certain learning curve every year with every teacher and every new class or curriculum.). I keep close tabs to see how they are doing on due dates, grades, keeping up with their study. And then, *SLOWLY* as they show they are ready, I become less and less involved until it is mostly them. By October or November (typically) their homeschool planet checklist went from listing all things in AP Gov't with lots of checks to saying, "Go to canvas and complete assignments." I still monitor grades and due dates, but I only check once a week. If I notice there is any type of problem (ex. I noticed my daughter wasn't doing well on her physics tests), I know they need some help. So, with the physics example, I will show her how to better prepare and, for just awhile, add in reminders to help her review: "Rework odd homeswork problems as a review for exam." or "Review your class notes from yesterday in preparation for the exam". I stay involved until she starts to learn to do this on her own. I also work towards independence with planning their time. 🙂

I know he would LOVE that option, Lori! He and I both love to read....and talk! Honestly, that is always how I imagined our homeschool looking like when my kids were tiny. I would pour over those Sonlight catalogs back in the early 2000s...and just imagine sitting out in a field of daisies on a blanket reading all day and talking to my kids in high school. (We never used Sonlight...but those pictures are just so quaint and dreamy...right?). Now I find myself in the trenches, and I am realizing that I have to accept help in some things. And sometimes accepting help in certain classes may be the best solution for our crazy family. 🙂 As an example, we are doing something similar to what you suggest with my 8th grade daughter this year, and I sometimes feel like I am doing a horrible job being consistent and giving her the time she needs and deserves in her "literature class" with mom to actually learn and grow! I end up feeling so guilty and like a total failure most of the time. My husband tells me that I am a perfectionist and have too high of expectations for myself. (And maybe he is right! I am a Meyers Briggs ENTJ...so there is probably some truth to what he says.) But I also determined that I have 21 different classes to keep track of this year between all of my kids. (Plus, my youngest is in 2nd grade, which is teacher intensive and he is a SLOW worker so that sucks up a lot of time.). On top of that, I have taken over children's ministry at my church. So then I realize that it is no wonder I am not able to find time to keep up with my daughter's literature discussions. I have also tried some of those "tutor graded" essay services when my kids were younger, and they just didn't grow the way they did in Cindy's classes as writers. So while I want to make your suggestion work, I just don't know if I am going to be able to do it.

Just a follow up question... A few homeschooling parents that I trust have advised me to take math with an actual instructor at some point so we can ask for a recommendation letter. Do you agree with this advice?

Calbear, sort of OT, but I am guessing that our children actually know each other fairly well. Did you know they are in both Chemistry and English together this year? And I think they have had other classes together too. 🙂. Maybe math next year.

My oldest son, who is a rising 10th grader, has taken Cindy Lange's class at Integritas Academy in 8th grade (Intro to Persuasive Writing Through Literature) and in 9th grade (Literature and Composition for Underclassmen, Cycle B). He loves Mrs. Lange's class and says that it is his favorite class he has taken this year, and he has asked if he can take her class again next year in 10th grade (Literature and Composition for Underclassmen, Cycle A). I love how excited he is about an English and Literature class. However, it is really hard to justify the price point to my dear husband for a 3rd year in a row. Especially because my daughter will now be high school aged, and we plan to give her the opportunity to learn from Cindy Lange too. (Assuming she is accepted.). We could probably make two students in her class work (financially), but it would be a stretch. Plus, I ask myself if staying with one teacher for so many years in a row is really the best thing for my son. Would he benefit for some additional experience with other teachers and styles? Is he asking to take her class again because he is comfortable? So I guess I am looking for ideas on what he might take next as an alternative to next year. I've tried to sell him on the AP English classes by Maya Inspektor, but he is worried that the workload might be too much. (He will be also be taking AP Chemistry, Debate, Honors Pre-Calc , Latin III, and Psychology in addition to this "English" class--so maybe he has a point). Do you have any advice for me or ideas on what to look into? BTW---Teaching writing myself is not something I feel very comfortable with. I am not a strong writer myself, and I feel like my son has already surpassed my abilities.

Hi Everyone, I am looking for an online pre-calculus class for my son (10th grade), and I would love to hear any reviews or recommendations you have. I am considering either the WTMA class (AOPS Flavor) with Mr. George Kreppein or Ms. Mindy Buller. (Anyone have any experience with either of those instructors?) I'm also looking at the Blue Tent class taught by Ms. Ashley Porter. We are also considering Derek Owens. ------ (Just an FYI...) My son's previous math classes have been as follows: 7th- Algebra I (Intro to AOPS Algebra A Class online) 8th- Honors Algebra II (Derek Owens) 9th- Geometry (AOPS Geometry book, self teaching at home)

No problem. Another thing to consider---I also saw that Kolbe has plans and tests that align with Math without Borders and Foerster. https://books.kolbe.org/collections/all/products/course-plans-tests-core-foersters-algebra-ii-trig One thing that I like about this lesson plan set (I haven't actually used it...we used DO)---is that it includes a scheduled supplement on using a TI-84 graphing calculator with little "labs" to complete. You can see samples of these books here: https://books.kolbe.org/search?q=sm10al2frk Just something to consider! Math curriculum discussions could be a full time hobby for me at this point. 😉

Ugh. Tell me about it! I am KNEE DEEP in AOPS Geometry with my oldest right now, and I am starting to wonder if I have made a huge mistake in math this year. We previously used AOPS Pre-Algebra and Algebra A...then switched over to Derek Owens for Algebra II. Then (at my son's request) we switched back to AOPS for Geometry. I'm trying to grade the proofs for Geometry myself, and I just don't feel confident. Geometry is my weakest area in math, and these proofs are so difficult. I could have done the online class, but he is already taking Connie's Advanced Honors Chemistry and an AP class and Debate, and I just don't think he is going to have the time to throw at the firehose pace of an AOPS class. So I guess I am left trying to muddle through these AOPS proofs on my own. Sorry to derail and I didn't mean to vent.. homeschooling is not for the faint of heart! 😉 I was just asking about your experience with Math without Borders because I have a friend looking for math options next year and I've seen some negative reviews of it online.

@silver, I saw on their website that they have what is called their "Algebra 2/Trig Ancillary Materials" https://mathwithoutborders.com/shop/algebra-2-trig-ancillary-materials/ It costs only $20 and comes with a PDF with WORKED solutions for every problem in the text. That might be a nice thing to have and then if you still didn't understand the solution, you could then watch the video. (I am still not clear if that comes in the Home Study Companion package.) @wendyroo, are you actually using Math Without Borders or do you just know a lot about it? If you are using it, I have more questions! 🙂

Hi Everyone, A friend of mind, who is not on this forum, has a son going into Algebra II this year. Previously they used Singapore upper level math, but she would like to switch a more standard math sequence for high school. She does not want to teach math herself, so she is looking for either videos or an online class. Does anyone know of an online class that uses the Foerster textbook? I know that Math Without Borders uses it, but I have read mixed reviews about that. Can anyone compare Math Without Borders to Derek Owens? (I have used Derek Owens.) Thanks so much,

I wanted to thank you all for taking the time to take the poll. That was very nice of you. And I also want to thank those who took the time to give him your feedback. I will have him read your comments as a learning experience. 🙂

Dear Hive, Can I ask a favor? My son has to make an online poll for his AP government class. He needs to collect as many answers as possible. If you wouldn't mind taking his poll, I would be very thankful. All answers are confidential and this is only used to teach him about collecting data online. Also, if you have any feedback on the wording of his questions, please also leave that too. The link is here: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1QJ9Rwa2WzpZlnALdtQMEvC9u-z-v18RR_0_WgSn8zgI/edit

Yes, I have used it. I like MP products a lot, but their reading and spelling programs do not work well for my particular kids. My children have all seemed to need a lot more practice and explicit instruction. I also wouldn't personally say that there are fewer moving parts than LOE foundations. MP has flashcards, multiple student teacher books....just like Logic of English. (We do switch to their literature guides once the kids are reading and writing well! Usually in 4th grade. I really like their literature guides. )

Yeah, I own and have used both AAS and Apple & Pears with other kids. I think I am going to use AAS -OR- a modified version of Spelling Plus (taught using OG methods) instead. 🙂. Thanks so much!

We have dyslexia in our family. I have used just about EVERY reading (and or spelling) program created by mankind. (I am not even kidding. Name something and I am probably intamately familar with it. ). I finally discovered and used Logic of English Foundations A-D with my youngest son, and let me tell you....I LOVE the program. My son (who has dyslexia by the way) can read anything and everything I put in front of him fluently and with ease. And, he loved LOE. He called it "dragon school" and would cheer and clap when it was time to do a lesson. How cool is that? Am I saying that *every* child will love LOE and learn to read easily? No. All kids develop and learn at their own pace. But am I saying it is one of the MOST complete, MOST thorough, EASIEST to teach, and MOST fun programs out there. YES. Without a doubt. --- (That being said, we attempted to do Logic of English Essentials this year, and I do not like it at all. I have tried and tried to make it work, and at this point, I am about to throw in the towel and replace it with another OG spelling program + reading aloud practice + ELTL.)

Yeah, we have been playing games like that. But the thing is, my son always gets the facts right. We are just trying to encourage faster recall time.

I do not have experience with this IEW writing instructor, but I cannot say enough good things about Jennifer Kimbrell. She is my "little known" secret in the IEW world. She has written all of her own materials that go along with the IEW method but also add in SO much more. She walks through just about every type of writing a student will ever have to do in their writing career--- with the possible exception of a lab report. (Even timed, handwritten essays.) Here is her website: https://writingwithjennifer.com Here classes remind me a lot of the writing equivalent of the Clover Valley or Clover Creek science classes. Her attitude is always cheerful and positive, many kids say she is their favorite teacher---- but her classes are not easy! She has standards that she does not bend on. Yet, any student *can* be successful because she so clearly lays out her expectations and takes students along in small baby steps. Here is a recent blog article that she wrote: https://writingwithjennifer.com/2021/10/29/not-a-wishy-washy-english-teacher/

I am not sure how to describe what I am looking for. But I will try my best. My 2nd grade son is learning his math facts using the book "Addition Facts That Stick". He seems to need some more practice and I feel like the math games and even some flashcards alone are not working well. I would love to find a more fun way for him to practice. Is there a game where I can select certain math facts for him to practice only?

Yes, we use Homeschool Planet. I actually use it for everything: reminders to do your chores, mama taught homeschooling assignments/grades, online class assignments, reminders FOR ME to check/grade certain things that I need to see....I even use it to remind my teenagers to wear deodorant on a daily basis. (#truth) It has reporting tools that can be used to create transcripts and report cards, but I don't use those features. I just pull the grades from homeschool planet and make my own transcripts/records in word in excel because I can make them look nicer and highlight certain strategic information. Honestly, I don't know how some people with multiple kids in multiple grades survive without a tool like homeschool planet. When they try to explain to me how they keep track of assignments manually, I think..."Wow, that's a lot of work!" 🙂 We have used it since my oldest was 9. So there may be newer/better things on the market, but we just stick with what we know. There is a bit of a learning curve with it. When I first started using it there were times that I would mess up my data base dates and have to spend hours trying to fix it. I have since learned how to prevent user error. There are pre-made plans you can buy for a lot of common homeschool curriculum choices. I personally don't use these, but I know people who do. (I don't use them because I like to be MUCH more explicit in my instruction to my kids because of their personalities. ) Obviously, with any tool like there, there is upfront time investment to input assignments, grading percentages, etc. However, I can type quickly (and often copy and paste from electronic plans) so I don't mind this.

I am self-teaching Honors Geometry using the AOPS textbook. I've taken enough AOPS classes to feel comfortable in my grading approach. I personally like to lay out expectations and a grading method in advance. It helps me stay objective and avoid grade inflation. And it also lets me son know what is expected of him. We teach until mastery, but here is how the grade is calculated in our house. Participation 5%- I have my son read a topic and work through all of the problems in the book in a notepad. He then self checks and brings them to me to see that he did it. (This is his participation grade, which I am saying is 5% of his grade.) Alcumus Homework 40% A large portion of his grade is based on Alcumus. If he gets in the blue (mastery) for the topic, he gets a 95-100%, If he gets in the green (passing) for the topic, he gets 80-94%, and theoretically, if he gets into the yellow, he gets 70-79%. (But I honestly don't accept yellow, and I encourage him to keep working and learning before moving on.). (The range is based on effort, how many problems he solved, and his overall percentage.). ETA: This Alcumus grade is calculated at the end of the year. This is because you can previously MASTER a topic in Alcumus (go blue), but then "un-master" it if you miss some review problems later on in the year. This is another reason I really like Alcumus as opposed to just working through the book--it forces the student to review more often and teaches to true mastery. (Speaking from personal experience, sometimes I think I have a concept mastered, but it is just floating around in my short term memory. The only way to make sure the concept is sold is with a lot of repeated practice. lol). It also reviews concepts from previously worked through AOPS courses (number theory, etc. Number theory is my son's favorite "type" of math, so he thinks of those as fun little bonus problems thrown in to keep his day interesting.). Plus, Alcumus is adaptive. If it finds a weakness, it will drill those specific types of problems more often. 🙂 Written Problems and Proofs 15% I select one problem from either the book or alcumus, and have him write one written solution. Tests 40% I make my own tests selecting 5 problems from either the homework or alcumus and have him solve it on paper. Yes, they are previously solved problems, but it is a good review to see if he can solve them again after awhile. NOTE: I **ONLY** do this because we almost transferred my son to a private school, and they were not going to give him high school credit for his "mama taught math" unless I could provide samples of tests. Ever since that happened to me, I have been keeping better records. My husband was diagnosed with lymphoma last year (he is in remission now, praise God!), and it was a good reminder that we may not always be able to keep homeschooling despite our best laid plans. You never know what life is going to throw at you--and I need to keep my options open. Things get a little more hairy in high school when it comes to graduation requirements and transferring credit, so I keep LOTS of records. ---------------------- ETA: If anyone would like to see my copies of the tests (and written problems) I have to go with Introduction to Geometry, please send me a private message and I will email them to you. I only have them written for as far as we are in the book. But I can send them as I make them.

As a second question: Does anyone have experience with both Logic of English Essentials *and* All About Spelling? Which do you think a child (who doesn't spell naturally) would retain more from?