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  1. 4 hours ago, Lecka said:

    Edit:  I don’t think at all they would value information from a teacher over a parent.  But I think a teacher is more likely to be blunt.  

    I think this may be true of an actual teacher. But all we really have to go off of is a Sunday school teacher, which rotates week-to-week, so nobody would really have opportunity to know my girls well, and a dance teacher, where (a) kids are not given much time to interact because it's *extremely* structured (the main reasons we chose this school, because my dd7 completely crumbled in less structured lessons), (b) they only see her once (3yo) or twice (7yo) a week, and (c) there's some financial incentive to say, "Oh no! Your child is a darling! We don't have any problems at all!" Even when I'm being clear that I find no fault in the class itself and am just needing honest feedback regarding my child's development. 

    • Like 2
  2. 58 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

    Yeah, 3 hours is pretty brief. It's done, sure, and it may be so screaming obvious it won't matter. Some psychs will want to see a person over many sessions. I guess just roll with it. I think your plan to keep the intake appt seems reasonable, as you can still pull back if you have bad vibes. 

    It would be interesting for you to find out what they actually do in that 3 hour eval. It might be like 1 hour intake, an ADOS (1 hour) and then an hour of follow-up. And they probably have a really thick  questionaire packet for you to do ahead of time. But for your purposes, especially with that 7 yo, you'd like full IQ, achievement, screening for SLDs and ADHD, and some advice on education, etc. So at this upcoming intake you could find out what he's offering. What tools will he be using to answer the autism question? I would ask upfront. And if he's going to give you IQ, achievement, screening for things, that can be really helpful to. Gives you a way to compare and think through what you need and what the different options will do.

    I know that a normal psych can do ADHD, but do they also do IQ, achievement, and all these other screenings you're mentioning? I thought that we got sent to a neuropsych for this last time. But I really despise was not fond of either of the two pediatric neuropsychs we have in town when we saw them previously.  Thanks for this. It's always helpful for me to have a list of things to ask them, and I tend to have brain lapses right when I actually need my brain cells. 

    ETA: The clinic says the following, but it seems pretty vague, so I'll definitely have to ask them more:  "child may undergo behavioral assessments, genetic testing, developmental observations, and speech evaluations"

  3. Yes, I believe insurance will cover it... but I've never had issues with insurance covering stuff, so I don't really know. I don't know how good our children's hospital is, but I don't think it's mainly a teaching hospital. I think autism is also the specialty of the private person, but they're younger and don't have as much experience. I believe the clinic is a diagnostic team, but it doesn't list SLP and OT and all of that on the website, mainly psych, behaviorist, and geneticist. Maybe there are others there that just aren't listed?  It is a wham-bam-done sort of deal at the clinic: 3 hours of eval, and *then* the consult with the parent to discuss results, all in one fell swoop.  We also did not have great experiences with a neuropsych. 

    I had no idea that hospitals have a wait list that long. Wow. That's crazy. The intake is for both the 7 yo and 3 yo, as is the referral. Thanks for your thoughts. I was thinking I'd keep the intake appointment, because meeting the person and being able to talk about things face to face is important to me in judging character and whether we're clicking and they're really listening to me and taking my concerns seriously. I just wasn't sure if insurance will cover both evals (though it will be a non-issue if the hospital wait list is 9 months, because we won't be waiting that long!) I'm more skeptical of a large clinic, but that's just me... 

  4. 1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

    How long will your wait for evals be? That's great that you got referrals so snappily. 

     I have no idea. We already had an appointment with one person for an intake next Tuesday, but it is not the same person as our doctor referred us to. We got referred to a special autism diagnosis clinic at a children’s hospital a bit over an hour away because our Ped really wanted us to see someone that does autism all day every day in order to have the best chance of getting a good eval.  they’re supposed to Be calling us back to set up an appt within a few days, so I’m not sure if I should cancel with the other person I scheduled with (who was recommended to me by an autistic mother-daughter pair I’m acquainted with). 

    • Like 2
  5. On 2/18/2019 at 5:26 PM, Lecka said:

    I think that’s a good idea.  If any of the “ask me” stuff fits in a diagnostic category, I might mention that.  If not I would still mention it.  

    Well, our ped referred us for evals for both my 3 and 7 yo, based on what I shared. We'll see what they say, I guess!

    I have to say that I watched this video on Autism in girls, and if the place we're referred to knows any of this stuff, I'm about 99% positive my dd7 will get the dx. I felt like every single thing he said about girls up through primary school described her to a T. It was uncanny and almost a little bit creepy because I found myself nodding along to every single point except the tomboy part (and then he mentioned that that often comes later and younger girls are all pink and frilly and ultra-feminine, so it still fit our situation.)
    https://vimeo.com/122940958?ref=fb-share&fbclid=IwAR2nhMU4v_y2u8kvhgSFAtjhT75lRGeEMv6N6z_s9QriiXWC9Sozem0JOFY

     

    • Like 2
  6. 5 minutes ago, Lecka said:

    I think that’s a good idea.  If any of the “ask me” stuff fits in a diagnostic category, I might mention that.  If not I would still mention it.  

    Ok. Will do. I also have at least a bit of leverage, I think, given that we were concerned about this two years ago: https://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/636343-interpreting-dayc-2-results/
    She was much younger then, of course, but her social/emotional and communication skills were around the 16th %ile then, and while her communication skills have really improved since she had tubes put in and can actually hear now, I think the social/emotional issues just never actually got better, as we were hoping, and may possibly have gotten worse in the last six months.

    ETA: She's clearly not "delayed" in the initial sense that I was concerned about two years ago. I would guess she's every bit as intelligent as her siblings. So I'm not really sure why she was globally kind of low at the time. But oh well. 🙂

    • Like 1
  7. 18 minutes ago, Lecka said:

    I don’t know if this is a good idea, but I tend to think — tie things in to the diagnosis.  

    The ballet thing, as really nice as it is, might also fit some diagnostic criteria.

    Same for rigid, maybe try to think of examples.

    Talk about the social things, choosing to be isolated, etc.  

    *I* think the “crossing the midline” means something or might mean something, but it’s not on any diagnostic criteria for autism.  Or, it’s not in current DSM 5.  There have been (iirc from reading Tony Atwood book) people who wanted to include motor things in diagnostic criteria for Aspergers.  

    I think bring that up if you might get an OT eval!   But it might not be the strongest thing to say for autism.  

    Ideally i someone think you need to advocate or make a strong case, but I think you do, especially when you aren’t going to have teacher or daycare or pre-school input.  If she was in that setting and was isolated with a special interest for hours a day, it would certainly be observed.  I think it’s harder with a child not in childcare.  It would also be more obvious how she was doing with transitions or rigidity compared to other kids.  

    I think it delayed my son’s diagnosis, even though gym daycare was mentioning things to me.  I did not communicate their comments.  

    I don’t think it’s better to be in group care.  I think it just makes it harder to advocate.  It’s not like being in group care would guarantee anything anyway.

    For any peer things, I think highlight how she does without siblings, don’t hedge with how she does with siblings.  Just in how you say things, I guess.  

    I don’t know how much free time you have in the next few days (lololololol) but if you have time to look at toddler videos, if you do see anything familiar, it would be helpful and give you terminology to use.  If you don’t see anything familiar, I don’t think that rules out autism.  But if it’s helpful, it’s helpful.  

    Here’s a link to videos.  https://autismnavigator.com/. They have redone this website but I think the video library will be the same.  

    Yes, I think I was going to separate various observations/concerns by DSM criteria, and I was also going to print out the checklists I've seen for "autism in girls" that the "Ask me, I'm autistic" fb page has, and then just highlight things that describe my daughters. 

    • Like 1
  8. 6 hours ago, kbutton said:

    I would note that peer interaction for a very bright child might need to be another very bright child. Lecka indicated at least some of that in talking about kids who are particularly old or young for a group's age range. I assume she's had some kind of evaluation since she's been diagnosed with a few things, and she sounds gifted. Has she done any kind of gifted enrichment classes? My son did some via a local program not affiliated with school, and he came across as everything from very typical to really unusual in that crowd, lol! In classes where he seemed typical, the structure was very supportive. In more free-form classes, he was a mess.

    Has she had language testing beyond the WISC and WJ? Stuff like the Test of Narrative Language or Test of Problem-solving. My 2e kiddo who has autism can DISCUSS all kinds of things that he doesn't pick up on his own outside of discussion. He picks up on what he's supposed to be noticing via that discussion, lol! Then, he has trouble writing those things down or writing them down in an organized manner. If he has to do any kind of thinking/analysis questions on his own that don't involve, say, his physics text, he struggles massively. He struggles just to tell a story. We would not have known this if we had not done additional testing. The only other clue is that his solidly gifted range verbal IQ lags behind his visual-spatial IQ. Not hugely so, but it's there. (And it seemed reversed in earlier testing due to coordination issues like crossing the midline and due to attention. As soon as he had VT and got on ADHD meds, his non-verbal IQ hit the ceiling on the test. His verbal IQ improved with meds too, but was definitely passed up by the non-verbal stuff.)

     

    She's not done enrichment classes. While gifted, she doesn't fit in with a lot of gifted stuff at this point, since she's dyslexic and can't read proficiently yet.  I feel that the reading struggles really turned her off to most things that are academic (her math started lagging, etc.), and she really turned to music as something she wanted to focus on. 
    She's had the ELLA for language testing, but I don't think she did anything narrative language. I'd have to go back and look at what her scores were. She does have vision issues (even q-bitz jr is super challenging for her). 

  9. 51 minutes ago, Lecka said:

    Oh, for the videos, I thought op might show them to people she sees who are saying “it’s not autism.”  I’m not sure she is really close to pulling the trigger on an eval.  But she could see what they say.  It’s just a thought.  

     

    On the contrary, I already did an intake with a local psych office (someone new who's supposed to know a lot of stuff about autism and specializes in the ados) and I have an appointment with my ped on Wednesday morning to discuss midline, autism, whatever else I think of. Part of the reason I was asking what you took for red flags are that I think some of these things seem so normal to me, that I don't actually know what the red flags are. It all seems like something that someone else would gloss over. So I'm preparing notes to take in to the ped, and was going to make sure I include anything you thought was a flag. At this point, I trust you and PeterPan enough to take what you say seriously. 🙂 Plus, there's the issue of potentially losing insurance for a while in a month or two, so I might as well act and eval now while I actually have good insurance.  

    I'm going to talk with them about both of the girls that I've questioned about. If they say it's not autism, then that's fine. But I think I'd rather just do the eval than continue to waffle. I fear that they're going to say it's not autism, even if it is, because of gender differences and giftedness. But there's nothing I can do about that, and I've done the best research I can. I just can't seem to uncover anyone who does gifted, girl autism near us. Shoot, when ds was getting eval'd, I couldn't even find someone who did gifted autism near us. 

    • Like 1
  10. 13 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

    I'm missing the point on the videos. If you want her play and interactions analyzed, you want an ADOS. Then it's standardized. A psych has little to make of your random video and most I saw ignored all the real life stuff I gave them like that. They'll spend time critiquing the teacher, saying whose fault it was, and all sorts of other stupidity. The ADOS is standardized. Or an RDI eval where they video and analyze joint attention, etc. can be good. We've done that, yes, highly recommend. But for the rest I'd just make the appointment, get the ADOS run by someone who is really experienced with it (or by a team who are all ADOS-trained) and be done with it. Ironically, some of the ps in our area now have whole IEP teams that are ADOS-trained. That kicks butt in my book. Otherwise people are seeing stuff and they have NO CLUE what they're seeing. I kid you not. You just wait another year or two and you're gonna have your own stories.

    I’m a bit confused on this because someone gave one of my kids an ADOS a few years ago ( we were participating in a research study at a local university) – NOT  one of my children being discussed in this thread – but I thought it was administered by an adult, and thus would not notice any social interaction issues with peers. It was just done in my home, with books and toys and dolls . Is that the same thing as what you’re saying?

    ETA I’m just wondering because dd3 sometimes does just fine with adults (though only sometimes).

  11. Those are all such interesting ideas, and I really appreciate you taking the time to write them all out. It gives me lots to think about. 
     
    In particular, as I've been reading more about autism in girls, I've been reminded that we considered an evaluation for dd7 for a while as well. She has major flags of special interests (was dancing ballet 3-4 hours a day at age 4, still spends 4-6 hours a day watching or dancing ballet four years later), social struggles (struggles to make friends, relates better to younger girls, studied imitation of other girls, meltdowns after group events, lots of foot-in-mouth situations), sensory issues (she's in OT already), and a number of comorbidity concerns (dx'd with anxiety and depression at 6, concerns over bipolar, dyslexia at 7, but the anxiety and fear are the worst ones here), and brain function I can't even imagine (hears when violin is tuned correctly or if it's off even by a fraction of a note, without even using a tuner,  was able to transpose a new song on the spot into six other keys just by ear, one right after the other, without any knowledge of key signatures, on the same day as her teacher taught her what transposition was), etc.
     
    On the other hand, she's very flexible if our plans have to change and is unlikely to lose her cool, she's an excellent liar, she seems to understand a fair bit of social stuff, because she's extremely good at manipulating people to get her way, she often shows real insight into people's motives when discussing a story or why someone acted a certain way, and she makes good eye contact, picks up on someone else being upset, etc, which are all things ds struggles with that are supposed to be more typical markers of autism. So we never pursued a dx, and just figured that some flags don't always mean autism. 
     
    But you're absolutely right that I think I normalize a lot of flagging behavior, because I homeschool and it's just our daily lives. Until ds was dx'd with autism, I had no idea that running around the house and howling like a wolf for an hour wasn't typical for young children. No idea at all. lol. So my idea of what's normal and expected is all out of whack, I know!!

    Dd3 definitely struggles with any sort of peer interaction. It's helpful that you point out that siblings don't count, because I would've said she does great with her siblings and "only" struggles with kids outside the home. Sometimes, a teacher tells her to join in and she does; others the teachers tell her to join in and she just says, "No, I don't want to be with you all." She's super verbal (more so in the last two months - I noticed that all of a sudden she went from a sort-of normally talking 3 yo (she was a bit late because of partial deafness and had tubes put in around two years of age, so before that she didn't talk more than 15-20 words, so she got "caught up" between ages 2 and 3 I feel) to a 3 yo who is speaking in 15-20 word complex sentences and I was talking with my husband about how she must have had a super major brain leap! lol.), but it's unclear to me how rigid (or not) she is or if there are sensory issues, since she throws tantrums at very unexpected times and I just chalk it up to being a super emotional/volatile, somewhat spoiled youngest sibling. 🙂 Like, yes, she's clingy and cries and buries her head in my shoulder and refuses to let go of me when I go to drop her off somewhere, and yes, this is a new phenomenon in the last three months, but she's also 3, you know? lol. 

    It's a lot to think about, and I really appreciate you giving me extra things to think about so I can think more big picture. It's tricky, because I don't think any one thing is really enough to be concerning - but the lot of them together just feels off. But anyone who's worked with my dd's have only ever briefly considered autism before disregarding it (it comes up just because of ds already having the dx), citing their verbally advanced speech and relatively good eye-contact/social interactions. So I don't want to borrow trouble and see autism where there isn't. But I also want to feel good about feeling like I've done my homework, and we've come to the right conclusion after reading all that we could've and learning all that we could've. In particular, I'm not sure I trust anyone in town to actually know about autism in girls, and I expect them all just to chalk my concerns up to overthinking things and that my girls are just fine and young/immature/etc (maybe just because our psych already has, even without doing a full eval)? When I look at normal autism checklists, ds9 flagged them all in the most obvious ways. Those same checklists do not flag my girls as possible autism. They flag a lot more on the checklists I see for girls with autism -- but those don't really seem like they have a body of research behind them or are as in line with diagnostic criteria and such. It'd be nice if I felt like there were someone around who I could really trust to know about it with girls and they could really rule it out for me.
  12. On 2/4/2019 at 4:40 AM, Lecka said:

    Okay, first I think there are things you mention that sound like autism red flags.  Saying he doesn’t want to play with other kids is very much something my son who has autism will do.  

    But for my son who doesn’t have autism.... okay, he does have autism spectrum traits, but I think his lack of diagnosis is solid.  I took him when he was 9, and he did have observations from public school, and it was known he had a brother who has autism, etc.  Anyway.

    I'm curious, besides not wanting to play with other kids, what other red flags you see in her situation? It's so hard for me to distinguish between what's normal 3 yo moodiness and what are actual red flags. And I think that when I can't articulate my concerns very well, then we get the shrug off as me making a mountain out of a mole hill. And only later do I realize that I had other genuine concerns but now feel like I've lost my opportunity to bring them up. 

  13. Dd7 met with her piano teacher yesterday and played the song she’d learned the previous week. Teacher proceeded to introduce the idea of transposing music (which Dd has some exposure to already), using her new song as an example. Without any real knowledge of key signatures or keys, dd proceeded to transpose her song from C into D, E, F, G, A, and B all one right after the other just by ear. The teacher pulled me aside to say that she doesn’t know many adult pianists that could have done it so naturally and fluently and it was really something else. I couldn’t help but be proud of her, even though I generally try to value hard work over natural gifts.

    • Like 9
  14. 26 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

    Well, how much are you willing to break from Tangrams?  Wedgits come to mind.  They have cards that you can get where the back tells you how many of each piece you will need, and the front gives you a picture to make. You can also look up attribute shape cards or pentomino cards if you have access to those, where they use the shapes to build right on the mat.  I know we have a set somewhere that is a green box by Smart Kids?  Brain Games?  I will have to look it up.  But we also have this: Day and Night.  The kids use the wooden pieces first to build the pictures that are in full color (day).  Then the cards flip to show only the shadows of patterns (night).

    ETA: The first book of Anno's Math Games has a simple Tangram puzzle chapter.  I drew the pieces on thick paper for my kid and it really was only a small handful (2-3) to put together.  You might see if your library has the book.


    We do have wedgits! I should pull those out again. I don't think we ever had the cards, but I'll look into them! 🙂

    5 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

    https://timberdoodle.com/products/day-and-night  Timberdoodle sells a bunch of great toys for visual processing. We used and liked this one but anything they sell is good. 

    Have you had her eyes checked by a developmental optometrist and checked for retained reflexes? If her visual processing is that affected, she may have issues with convergence or other developmental vision skills. 


    Yep. I have lots of threads about her vision and how much she despises her vision therapy exercises. We got all her reflexes integrated about six months ago, but this is a good reminder for me to check again, since we haven't been as faithful on maintenance exercises as I would have liked in that time. 

    5 hours ago, kand said:


    QBitz Jr looks great! I'm pretty sure that whoever did the easy Tangrams with her did something like this too! Thanks!!

    44 minutes ago, 8FillTheHeart said:


    These look great too! Thank you very much!!

  15. Dd7 has some visual stuff going on, and I'd like to get her working on something that's like Tangrams, but less complex. I'm thinking of something that I saw a therapist do with her at one point (I can't remember all the details of who and where and when, though!) where it was like a tangram puzzle, EXCEPT that it only had 2 pieces, AND they told you *which* two tangram pieces it was. All she had to do was actually figure out how to orient them correctly and lay them in the design (which, I'll just say, was still wicked difficult for her). Presumably, it would've gotten more difficult (maybe 3-4 pieces eventually, or not telling which pieces to use, etc.). 

    I've tried searching for easy tangrams for younger kids/preschoolers, but all I get are normal Tangram puzzles with the pieces already outlined for the kid to match, and this isn't really what I'm looking for.  Any ideas where to look?

    It really does need to be simple.  In some research study my kids volunteered for at the local uni, they played a game where you had to mentally rotate puzzle pieces and figure out where they'd go, Poor dd7 scores lower than her sister four whole years younger... 😞 So super easy initially (but with room to grow) would be really good!

  16. 15 minutes ago, Lecka said:

    One is your daughter is solid with blending.  She is also solid with segmenting.  She does great with both blending and segmenting nonsense words.  She has got it down, but *she doesn’t do it when she reads.*  Maybe she needs to get used to doing it faster, with connected text, or just doing it consistently because it is not her habit.  

    Another is, your daughter is a great guesser because she can figure out a word that makes sense.  She also has a strong sight memory and already knows a lot of sight words.  She also has a great memory.  

    But her blending is sometimes hesitant or sometimes she might sound out “p a n” and then say “man” (or something like that).  Nonsense words are an issue.  Segmenting is very hit or miss with some strange mistakes.  

    Or it’s somewhere in the middle, or one day it seems one way, and then another day, it seems another way.  

    I think she's kind of all of the place. She can *always* sound out "p a n," but she often struggles with blends. So she might see "split" and read "slit" or "spit", and vice versa, she often does this thing where she sees something like "spit" but reads "split." (It's pretty common for her to insert an l or r after another consonant blend.) Elizabeth B has been working with her a lot, which has been super helpful, because she was able to identify that dd's biggest struggle (aside from rushing) is consonant blends, and I hadn't recognized that previously. So, so long as words aren't overwhelming (i.e., just *look* long, like "fantastic") and don't have consonant blends, she can read *most* things at this point, if she actually slows down to read carefully. But if any one of those pieces is missing (i.e., she's hurrying/guessing, the word looks overwhelming to her, or it has consonant blends), then she's hosed. Some days she can blend consonants at an almost OK level - others, particularly when she's tired, she has no hope of hitting even a two-letter blend.  She's actually starting to get her consonant blends down a bit better in the nonsense word game, but it is not transferring very well to words of more than one syllable. But it's a start!

    PS: Sorry for taking over some of the initial direction of this thread, OP. I will take it to a private chat, if you'd like, but it's not clear if this might still be helpful to you, even though it's more detailed than you may need at this point?

    • Like 1
  17. 28 minutes ago, Storygirl said:

    DD13 is dyslexic and also has a 99th percentile processing speed. The processing speed is a gift, but it also makes slowing down long enough to decode individual words challenging. We had the same problems with her reading too fast, filling in words via context clues, and so on. During reading instruction, I had to use books she had never yet read, because if she knew them, I could not get her to actually practice the reading skills. I would also cover up all pictures, so that she would not gain any clues from them.

    When she was in fourth grade, we stopped homeschooling, and she enrolled at a private Christian school, which had an intervention teacher trained in OG. She received tutoring. The next year, she switched to a private dyslexia school, which she still attends now in seventh grade. So after fourth grade, others took over her reading instruction.

    But when we were still homeschooling, we tried the Dancing Bears reading program. Honestly, it was not the right program for DD over all. However, it did help her learn to slow down and sound out every syllable instead of gulping down whole words and sentences at once.

    The key was to use an index card to cover the line of text and only reveal one phoneme at a time for her to sound out. For DD, I also had to take a sheet of paper and cover up all of the text on the whole page that she had not read, because she still wanted to read ahead.

    You wouldn't need to buy the Dancing Bears program to try this technique. You can use it with any text that you want her to read.

    Thanks so much for writing this! Most of the time, I hear about folks with some similar issues but low WM *and* low PS, whereas dd only has low WM, but wicked fast PS. Thanks for your thoughts on the slowing down, and yours too, @Lecka!! It's kind of funny because sometimes she'll just be flying through something and she'll read a word wrong because she's not *actually* reading it, so I usually just tap it once or twice (I still point to her reading because she does have some vision issues we're working and I just find it's easier to work on vision separate from her reading) to indicate that she should try again. Occasionally she'll read it wrong 3-4 times because she's just trying to fill in something that makes sense in that place, before actually slowing down to look at the word itself. And often (maybe 70% of the time?), once she *really* looks at the word, sounds it out slowly (here I may have to cover up parts of the word so she only gets a syllable at a time, or I may remind her to split syllables between the consonants or some other such thing), she really can read it. (We're not talking very complicated words here, though.) It just sometimes takes several "taps" before she stops to actually read. 🙂

    • Like 2
  18. 6 hours ago, Lecka said:

    But anyway ---- if she is *extreme* in just wanting to know what happens, I have two ideas.  One is, maybe re-read the same book, or -- maybe she doesn't want to do the same book twice, but if you did reading practice with a section, she would already know what happened, and that wouldn't be a reason to rush anymore.  Two is, maybe talk more about characters or just other things to notice and think about in a book, besides just the story.  It is harder with some books, but there can be a lot of "wondering questions" and.... there is reading comprehension stuff where you talk about what questions you ask yourself as you read, and things like that, and it does add a little more to the reading process.  But she might be really young for that.  

    For some things, my son might really like and enjoy, when he was younger, he might *really* be liking the plot, but he might be missing a lot of other things about the book.  I don't think that is a problem, but I have seen with him, when he is noticing more going on, he doesn't mind things going more slowly.  

    If you know her processing speed is that high, though, it makes sense it would be more about that.  


    We have been doing your re-reading books ideas. In this case, she's less about getting to the end of the story, but speed is still a problem. It's almost like the parts of her brain that are *not* working hard to sound out a word are just making up the story faster than she can read. So she kind of flits from big/obvious word to big/obvious word, and just makes up a lot of what's in between. It's a real struggle to get her to read what is *actually* on the page (like you said). Unfortunately, for books that she already knows the story to, she is far more likely to just recite the story as best she can remember it, using just occasional word cues from the book. It takes super careful reading on my part to catch her when she skips a part or makes up her own sentence for a part -- if I were just listening to her while cooking or something, I would never know that she wasn't actually reading what was on the page. 

    I'll think about if I might be able to convince her she'll get more out of the book if we read more slowly. It's an interesting idea.  I think the biggest issue is that her story-brain is usually several steps ahead of her sounding-out brain, and doesn't really want to slow down, so she just consistently skips a few words ahead with her sounding-out brain to catch up instead of slowing her story-brain down. I'm not sure if that will make *any* sense to anyone else, but she almost rushes more when she knows the story well, because she's more able to remember how the story goes and just make things up as she goes (and they're usually *pretty* close in meaning - even if completely different in actual language). 

  19. 19 minutes ago, Lecka said:

    4 kookie kids -- I have two thoughts.  One, what you are doing right now for evening quiet time might not be working great for your daughter.  Maybe she could listen to an audiobook during that time instead, if it is intended for reading.  Or maybe encourage her to do a craft or something instead.  I don't think she is reading fluently enough to get a lot out of it, since you say she isn't reading what is written on the page.  

    It's all very well to say it shouldn't be frustrating for her, but if it is frustrating for her, then even though it should be easy enough for her to look at pictures, it isn't going that way for her.  

    http://www.readingrockets.org/article/what-works-fluency-instruction

    This is an article I have read a lot of times.... basically it is saying, if your child needs more support in reading, then having them read on their own is probably not doing much for them, even though it is very appealing for a parent.  

    Oh, we've completely switched over to audiobooks since that one book-throwing tantrum! 🙂 She has Audible and BARD on three separate devices that she can access on her own (at least 100 books loaded onto each one) as well as her NLS talking book machine that she calls and requests new books for about 1-2 times a month. In fact, we've been doing everything she can to *stop* her from reading (actual books) the last six months, because we found that the more she tried (even just on her own and for pleasure), the more she fell into sight-guessing habits. The only time she is supposed to be reading at this point is with me at her side doing a specific lesson/activity.

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