# 4KookieKids

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## Posts posted by 4KookieKids

### Math woes

1 hour ago, Lecka said:

What happens also ------ is if something is too hard, the child just doesn't benefit.

There's a few reasons.  Let's say she's bogged down adding 3+3+3+3.  She gets to 3, hhmmm, haa, hmmm, gets to 9, hmmmm, okay it's 12.  At this point she has forgotten what she was doing and why as far as ----- making a connection to "here's what we do to convert between feet and yards."  That is just gone.  It's totally gone.

Second, things have to be a little easy for there to be that process of "here are the steps I'm doing and how they connect."  If you are just doing the steps, and that is taking up all the energy and attention, that other process just is not happening.  It's just not happening.

Third, it's demoralizing and can develop a really passive "mom will tell me what to do next" mentality.  Ask me how I know this.

Yikes. This is her in a nutshell. Skip counting is still adding - not automatic at all. And DH thinks she's definitely trying to get me to just lead her to the answer so she doesn't have to do it all herself.

### Math woes

1 hour ago, Mainer said:

The converting of yards to feet sounds really taxing from a working memory standpoint. Does your DD have any working memory difficulties?

If you must do yards to feet, could you make a really long line of masking tape along a carpet, for example, then figure out the yards and feet, physically? Your DD could draw colored marks for each yard, and then segment each yard into feet.

So I'm clearly not in the know, here, because her working memory scores were a good 3 standard deviations from most of her other scores when we tested -- but I don't see why conversions tax working memory? (I realize I'm showcasing my ignorance here.)

We've been letting her do her ft/yd conversions with a really long tape measure, but I feel like the *idea* isn't really sinking in, despite her figuring out the answers. And I'm torn in that place of feeling like she's lazy/not trying/ etc. (all those dumb things I know I shouldn't think of a kid who's struggling, because I *know* that kids do well when they can.) and  honestly wondering if I'm just expecting too much maybe because I've been conditioned like that with my son. He's math gifted and autistic, too, but only mildly dyslexic, and for him things progressed more like: Here's how you multiply by 2's... a few examples... ten minutes of doubling later, he says, "I've got it! I can multiply! Ask me anything!" and I said, "Anything with 2?" and he responded, "No, anything!" So I asked him 13x7, and he thought for 30 seconds and then answered correctly. Conversions were the same: It only took him about 2 minutes to go from hearing that 12 in = 1 ft to being able to convert 88 in to ft and in combined and back.  I'm trying hard to not compare them, but he's the only other kid who's already been through this, so I think I do it without meaning to (my other two are younger PreK / Kinder still).

### Math woes

I don't know if this goes her or on the AL board, honestly. I'm so confused and frustrated, and did not think I would have math struggles with my kids, given that I have a PhD in math and routinely teach graduate level courses for in-service teachers.... lol.

Dd8 used to like math and do well at it, it seemed. Sure, there were a few hiccups, like the fact that I often had to translate problems for her (so 12 / 3 would get blank stares, but she could do it if I said we had 12 cookies to divide between 3 kids), her inability to remember ANY math facts, and a complete inability to follow the long division or subtracting with borrowing procedures, despite understanding the concepts relatively well (it seemed). But I chalked it up to the fact that she was young and immature, despite being bright. She finished Singapore 2B around age 5.5, but we held off starting anything else for a while because I wanted to give her time to mature and memorize some math facts. We played math, cooked, read life of fred, skip counted, played with C-rods and base 10 blocks, etc. She watched her brother doing BA and asked for that around age 6.5-7ish, so I got her 2A to start on, and she loved it for about a week, and then she hated it.

Now she's 8 and on grade level in Singapore and a year behind in BA (I know it's hard, so I'm ok with that), and I feel like we've completely stalled out and I get frustrated or blank stares in response to almost any teaching I do. After 2.5 years of practicing, she still struggles with math facts (though through Xtramath she has most of the addition ones down at this point, but she still lacks the others), subtraction with borrowing, and long division. She can't convert anything, ever -- no matter how many times we discuss the fact that 1 yd = 3 ft, and no matter how many examples I do with her, she can't figure out how many ft are in 4 yd 2ft (for example), unless I specifically walk her through "multiply 4 yd by 3 ft/yd, since there are 3 ft in each yd, so it's really 4 groups of 3... Now add the extra 2 ft at the end." Today I asked her (near the end of the lesson, so it's not like we weren't warmed up) what 200 yd would be in ft and her answers varied from 1000 (Daddy said 1000 ft in a yd yesterday! No... he said 1000 m in a km, I corrected...) to 350 to 8. 😞  We walked through it together, incrementally, and I reminded her that we're just multiplying by 3 several times before she was able to get it. But I hated my own teaching at that point, because I completely recognize that I'm only teaching procedurally at that point, and she still has no understanding of the actual concept of conversions that being taught.

I used to think she had good number sense, since she was ok with turning things into story problems (the 12 cookies split between 3 kids example). She's grown up with lots of manipulatives, no pressure (she only was advanced previously because she *wanted* to do math every day), and tons of number sense games (dragonbox has been a favorite here since they were toddlers).

She is diagnosed as autistic and profoundly dyslexic (we had two separate evaluations done, with the last one just 2-3 months ago, because I was concerned that the initial evaluation was inaccurate and maybe she wasn't actually dyslexic), and I know that can lead to some of the issues with math facts and procedural learning. What's less clear to me is where I go from here, and if I need to have her evaluated further (which would be a real stretch at this point, because we just moved to a super rural area), or what I would even do if she did have dyscalculia. We love Singapore, BA, and AoPS in our home. I have NO idea what to do with a kid who seems smart enough to understand the concepts she's learning (high IQ and super high processing speed) but doesn't actually understand them. And there's just so much in life that's hard for her right now (reading, having moved, etc.). I've heard of folks switching to different curriculum to help. I just don't really understand what's going on with her or what to do help. Do I just need to adjust my expectations and give her more time to mature? (my gut says no and it will only stagnate...) Work harder? (not sure we can, our math lessons are so frustrating with me explaining the exact same thing 9 different ways and her still not getting it... or repeating the same explanation over and over again and her still not getting it.... )

She can't tell me why it doesn't make sense. I limp her through a problem, ask if she understands, and she chirps, "Nope!" and then can't do the next problem... I've read about dyscalculia, but it's still just not clear to me how to make any sense of what I'm reading or how to evaluate her number sense (especially because I find so few people IRL actually have a clue about 2E kids). I feel like we're repeating the same crash and burn scenario as we did in reading with math now, and I have no idea how to get off this ride: accelerated & bright & enjoys it -> slowing progress -> starting to lag -> falling behind-> not understanding most of what is taught.

Can anyone offer any insight or suggestions? I really have no idea what to do, and I wanted to stab myself in the eye with a pencil this morning as we were trying to get through a page of math together.

### Favorite Great Courses?

So how do we know which ones are more visual and which ones not? Is there a list of "good" visual ones?

All of my kids ages 5+ are dyslexic. So I read it to them. It's not a problem.

### Parental controls for a kids computer

Here's something I don't understand. Across the board, windows, chrome OS, and iOS seem to have come a long way with parental controls on minor accounts. But it seems ridiculous to me that you can't disable the stores in any of these platforms. Sure, you can restrict "inappropriate content" and make it so that they need an adult to actually download something -- but there are plenty of inappropriate icons that still pop up if you search something like "sex" (shocker: the developer rated them E for everyone!). I don't care that my kids wouldn't be able to download them - I don't really want them even having access to the store to see the icons at all!! Am I missing something here in the parental controls? I feel like this is such a huge oversight, and I just can't understand why windows and chrome OS do it! Can anyone show me how to fix it?

I want to be able to trust my kids with a password to a kids account on a computer so that they can log on to their own online schoolwork. Yes, the laptop should only be used at the table in public view. But, I'd rather cover all my bases. Is anyone aware of something that restricts store access altogether, rather than just restricting to the "e for everyone" content?

ETA: On the iPad, I know I can at least use the screentime app to restrict access to the app store altogether. I wish there were something like that for the others!

### How and why do you write an IEP while homeschooling?

10 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Run some sample tests to make sure the accommodations will actually change the outcome of the scores. For my dd, her math would have changed but the rest would not. The overall effect was not enough to be worth the hassle, so she just didn't. If your trial runs don't show it will make much difference, you needn't bother. For some people they make a huge difference.

This is a fun idea. You're suggesting just to do it at home to get a feel for what's actually helpful?

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### How and why do you write an IEP while homeschooling?

So what makes an IEP "legal" is that it's an agreement on the school's part? The college board website makes an awful big deal about how easy it is for schools to get accommodations for students who have an IEP, and they make it look pretty hard to apply for accommodations outside of that specific scenario (school doing it for you, you already have an IEP in place). I just wasn't sure how resistant they really are if you can't check that box, you know?

### FUN all-in-one app (like ABCmouse) but for ALs?

21 hours ago, Sarah0000 said:

Is there not a kids corner type thing you can download for the iPad so just the apps you choose are available to play? We have that on our Android tablet which is a big help. Our iPad gets used more for educational websites saved as bookmarks.

Not that I'm aware of you. Guided access will lock it into one app, but you can't even load different users onto it. They say it's just supposed to be a one-user device.

### FUN all-in-one app (like ABCmouse) but for ALs?

My 5 yo routinely complains that ABCmouse is boring (it's already set to 2nd grade level). We have a variety of other single-subject apps, but I'd like something more "all-in-one" so she can explore science, history, grammar, math, etc. all in one place (I have to be able to "lock" the ipad into a single app, instead of giving her access to the full ipad, since guided access is an all or nothing sort of deal.) We use this screentime when I need time with my big kids, so it needs to be something she can manage on her own for 30-45 minutes, something fun enough to keep an immature 5yo entertained, and advanced enough to not be boring for an AL. I'd like it to be somewhat interactive and not just videos to watch.

I checked out miacademy and abcmouse's adventure app for older kids, but they still just don't seem super advanced. Khan doesn't seem to have the fun aspect, and khan kids version doesn't provide new content.

We do a fair bit of driving and my kids are pretty used to listening to audiobooks and doing coloring/sticker books while we drive, but we have a 16ish hour drive coming up in a month, and -- unlike most of our drives where I have another adult there to handout snacks and otherwise help -- I'm going this one alone. We also have a variety of fidgits, rubiks cubes, kanoodle, magnetic games, etc, that they're used to doing on trips. So I feel like I would like to get them something novel to keep them busy for at least some of this trip. Novel - but not messy... lol. My kids are 10, 8, 6, 4, and they can't read in the car (car-sick and 3 dyslexics).  They don't enjoy or do very well with roadtrip games like "I spy" or "See who can find something that begins with A... Z" sorts of games.

Hit me with your best ideas for non-messy, quiet things kids can do in a car, without losing or dropping pieces!

### Online drum lessons

Any good recommendations from people who actually know drums? I realize I can just do a google search, but I have no way of knowing if what I find is in any way good. 🙂

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### Is BA5 really harder than 3&4, or are EF deficencies just catching up with us?

18 hours ago, daijobu said:

With your ds's dysgraphia, would it help if you scribed for him?  He could think out loud and you can write down what he is thinking in an organized fashion.

I do this frequently, showing him kind of the "main" point to write down so that he can follow his work later. But I've also been doing it for the last two years... 😛
I'd hoped it would sort of come naturally after enough modeling, but to no avail yet! lol.

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### Is BA5 really harder than 3&4, or are EF deficencies just catching up with us?

My ds9 (almost 10) did each quarter of BA3&4 in roughly 4-8 weeks. Made it through both years of work in under a year, despite doing it concurrently with Singapore. But BA5 seems to be kicking his butt, and I just cannot figure out why. It's taken him over a year just to get 5A and 5B done. When I sit with him to see what's going on, he seems to struggle with keeping things straight in his head - but he's never had this problem with math before and the kid reads math textbooks for fun on a regular basis. He keeps making little mistakes (being off by 1 counting terms in a sequence, doubling instead of halving, etc.), and he says he gets overwhelmed by the problems (that don't seem that difficult to me, but do have several steps), and he writes NO work down, despite my nagging reminders that he needs to show me at least *some* work on problems that have more than one step. Today he was totally confused as to what work I expected from him with a problem like, "An arithmetic sequence of 30 terms begins with 19 and ends with 89.. Find the sum of the terms in the sequence." And he did it correctly and all in his head. But he couldn't explain anything about his answer ("I really don't know how I got that number. I'm confused and don't know what I was thinking now.") and he wouldn't write a thing down.

He says BA5 is just way harder - is this true for others? He is 2E (ASD, ADHD, dyslexic, dysgraphic), but he was so motivated and advanced for a while that I really have no idea what to think. I wonder if his EF/ADHD issues are just catching up to him, but I'm not sure how to help him, if that's the case. He was the kid studying multiplication facts for fun at 4 yo and exploring the twin prime conjecture and prime number theorem at 7, much to his father's chagrin. I don't think he's changed in his love of math - but he sits for a full five minutes sometimes doing a problem in his head that would only take 20 seconds to work out on paper, and it's driving me (and him!) batty.

Any thoughts?

### Civics in elementary school...

So we're moving to a state that requires students study civics every year, and I'm trying to figure out exactly what would meet that requirement. Do you think I'm supposed to assume it's US civics only? What are civics, exactly? Just government? Or economy, too?

My kids are 4th, 2nd, K, and PreK (obviously not on the books officially yet). I'm considering just looking for a straight up text book, and then just using it more like a "list" of things to talk about with them, just a topic a week or something like that (not having them go through the book at all themselves, it would just be for me.)

Any recommendations? I don't want them on those free online civics apps, fun as they seem. The last thing my kids need is more screentime! lol.

### Computer suggestions

On 6/3/2019 at 9:27 PM, PeterPan said:

since your list sounds really important to you.

It's really not, actually. I only gave it as the example of how they use it NOW. If all that mattered were my current list - which boils down to web browsing and word processing - I'd just buy them a cheapo \$150 Best buy back to school laptop like we got for DH (who really does only use those things). My hope here was to find out what sorts of things they could be doing on a laptop that would be very helpful, either now or in the future, and then buy something accordingly (with the understanding that, at this point, I don't want to spend \$\$\$ on a macbook).

So I do really appreciate your suggestion to look at a refurbed iPad and the other conversation about apple just being more accomodation-friendly. It's that sort of info that is helpful to me (along with figuring out what people actually DO that makes them more accomodation friendly). 🙂

### Computer suggestions

Part of my problem is that I don't know exactly what I want it to do. Sure, I know what I want it to do *now*, but the main reason for this question to begin with is that I'm not sure what I'll want it to be able to do in the next few years! lol.

Right now, the kids primarily use my computer for
* Use Google docs for "writing" things (stories, summaries, letters, etc.)
* Web browser stuff like XtraMath, Alcumus, Prodigy, Code.org, Typing.org, etc.
* Arduino

We do have a little iPad mini that they regularly use for Barton, and very occasionally get to use for stuff like DragonBox.

So that's what they do now, and I'm tired of seeing them dragging my laptop around and getting it stepped on by the dog and the like. So I'd like to get them something more study and less expensive. IF that something could also have *things* that would help them as they get older (whatever those *things* may be - apps, accomodations, whatever), then that would be perfect.

It will have to be something shared by all my children, rather than getting something for each individual child at this point, if that factors into the recommendation at all.

### Computer suggestions

8 hours ago, PeterPan said:

For the same money you could have an ipad and put it in a durable case.

Really?? The chromebooks by us are far cheaper than any ipad, even without a case. Which chromebook and ipad are you referring to?

### Computer suggestions

What should I be looking for in a cheap computer for kids with dyslexia/ASD/ADHD? I was thinking of getting a Chromebook for my kids to use for school, because they are not at all gentle with my own laptop. They are already relatively comfortable using Google's voice typing online through Google Docs, but we have not really ventured into the world of tech too much with them outside of that and some basic stuff like XtraMath, Code.org, Typing.com, and Prodigy. Right now, most of our time is spent on daily living, learning how to get along with others, and Barton (I've got kids in levels 2, 3, and 4 right now! lol.) Eventually, I hope to do a bit more "school," with them so I'm trying to think ahead to what may be helpful.

I really have no idea what I'm looking for. I guess that's part of my question. Anything in particular that is very helpful for a kid like this, from a tech perspective? It would be a school-only sort of computer, so I'm not concerned about gaming requirements or anything like that. My kids are rough enough on their stuff that I'm definitely looking for something on the inexpensive side.

### Can't grasp carrying more than one place?

Thank you all. Yes, we do a lot of the mental math stuff and talk about how it's easier to subtract a bigger number and add back in (she's doing Beast and Singapore concurrently, Beast a level behind Singapore). She's getting things a lot of different ways! 🙂 We do all the cheats out there! lol. I would just like this to be a tool in her arsenal as well, I guess.

28 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Is this a dc who just got a more global diagnosis? And did she get an SLD diagnosis? In general, a certain amount of academic challenges are expected with certain global diagnoses (for instance ASD) even if they don't diagnose separately the SLDs. If the dc has a more global diagnosis or developmental delays, I would make sure you're generalizing and I would try to do it more ways. My ds, gifted IQ, only really got written addition/subtraction this year (age 10). We did lots and lots and lots of preparatory work on place value, understanding quantities lots of other ways. (money, manipulatives, blocks, abacus, etc.)

The written math doesn't matter at all, because a calculator can do that. The underlying deficits of sense of quantity are going to affect her 2 digit mental math, and that's how most people do their everyday math (store, time, etc.). So it's more important to spend the time on sense of quantity, estimating, etc. than it is to move forward with computation. She will be able to do computation all the way (as many digits as you want) once it clicks.

Fwiw, when it was ready to click, I used this kit Hands-On Addition Regrouping Kit  It includes cards for 2 digit and multi-digit. We did 2 of each kind of per day, doing the 2 digit cards mentally and talking about what strategies we could have used, then doing the multi-digit with the hands-on until it clicked. Then we did the subtraction kits. Next we'll work through the multiplication and division kits when those are ready.

We also used grids and we do subtraction the RightStart way, doing all the trades first. You can probably google and find a youtube of the RightStart subtraction method. It streamlines the steps. You may find it useful to work on working memory before going back at computation. Here, see if the RS subtraction is explained in this Advanced Subtraction Lessons - RightStart Mathrightstartmath.com/wp-content/uploads/.../RightStart-Mathematics-Subtraction.pdf

Yes, I suppose I'm not yet used to putting things into perspective with her new ASD diagnosis. She is profoundly dyslexic and we've known that for the last year, but all of her other language skills (expressive/receptive) where at or above expected. (caveat: it's not clear to me that "normal" is actually a good descriptor here, since she was also told she was reading "at or above grade level" last year before the SLP did actual phonological tests and found her profoundly dyslexic -- she's just a bright kid who compensates as best she can, you know?)  Would things like autism and dyslexia affect how she does arithmetic?

She has relatively good number sense and can subtract any two digit numbers, but she often has a hard time remembering the extra ten when she's trying to do something like make 100 (e.g., she almost always says that you need 65 to make 100 with 45 when she's doing it in her head. On paper, she can *always* do 100 - 45, because she's pretty much got the "carrying one place" procedure down -- though whether or not she has the concept down is a bit more fuzzy, despite it being emphasized/explained over and over and over again, since 130 - 40 is often gets regrouped as (0) (10) (0) on top, instead of (0), (13) (0) because she forgets to *add* 10, instead of just making the new number a 10.) She does have poor working memory, despite having exceptional processing speed (99.7th %ile).

### America the Beautiful - National Parks Pass

Forgive me if this has already been mentioned: nothing popped up in my search, but I'm not confident in the search function. 🙂

Some folks on the Barton fb group were talking about how they got this pass for their kids based on a dyslexia dx:

https://store.usgs.gov/access-pass?fbclid=IwAR26l4JV0DA73hYx4P8_dcPws9Ccrr0OoWEaQumJri29d3CFzDp1JUdNhg4

Seems pretty cool to me, but I'm wondering what you'd actually include in a disability letter for dyslexia. I'm all about taking advantage of things like this that we can access, and I'd really love to get my kids passes, but I guess I worry they might roll their eyes at me if I do apply with "only" dyslexia as my kids' disability. I've read that the disability statement must include: that the individual has a PERMANENT disability, that it limits one or more aspects of their daily life, and the nature of those limitations.

I guess I'm asking if you have any sample disability statements or if you have any ideas on how to actually word this? Our physician will sign off on it, I'm confident, but I'm just not sure what to put down.

Also, for something like this, does autism count as a disability? How would one write a letter including that? (It'd be nice if I could just get passes for all my kids at once! lol.)

### has anyone used the games from socialthinking.com/Zones of Regulation?

My kids really like Should I or shouldn't I?
It's a little surprising to me, because it seems a little bit... dry... to me.
But they seem to think it's as fun as apples to apples or something like that.
They pull it out to play in their free time, when it's competing with monopoly and catan and chess and mancala.

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### What's the deal with crossing the midline?

Not at this point in time. DH is aware that my single biggest concern is lack of support for our children. So we're going to go and see what happens. I'm going to put out calls and just see what folks might be able to do for us. I believe the school in the area (there's 1 public grade school in the entire county) has relatively good supports, actually (funding is allocated on a statewide basis based on # of students, rather than neighborhood taxes, so the poorer areas actually have decent schools still) and that most of the support people in the area get seems to come through the school, instead of driving the hour to the nearest city. So I'll be interested to meet with them and see what they say. There's also a lot of home health care for elderly, but I'm going to see what I might be able to get in terms of getting an OT to come to our home, and possibly see all four of my kids in one longer chunk of time (someone may actually find it worth their time if they can get four appointments in in one fell swoop, right?? .... :D). Maybe nothing will come of it and I'll just end up driving the hour on a regular basis. But I'm at least going to try and see what I might be able to find.

### What's the deal with crossing the midline?

27 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

I'm sorry, that's hard.  Are you introvert? I have this theory that spectrum and introverts get on really well. You are right that you're getting outnumbered. You like them, but you will definitely want time to visit with neurotypicals, lol. Oh I was having a moment, your dh is getting diagnosed as well? Well cool, you're getting this done right! LOL Very efficient.

So what's next? Maybe changing your board name to something more spectral (spectrumy??) like 4sparklykids? I don't know. Don't drink. That's the advice I read when my ds got diagnosed. Don't eat it either, because then you'll just gain weight. I guess you could go clean. Or find someone local to talk to. Call your mother if that's safe.

Ha ha. No, I'm SO not an introvert. I'm an extraverted unschooly parent at heart. I already went through a grieving process the last few summers realizing that my kids don't "do vacation" and I have to just keep their school/structure all year long.

I have no idea what my next steps are, honestly. We're moving this summer to a super rural place where OTs and psych's are an hour drive away. I'm very much at a loss as to what my next steps are. 🙂

### What's the deal with crossing the midline?

On 4/16/2019 at 11:06 PM, PeterPan said:

Keep us posted! The waiting is so hard. What's the timeline on the private?

Well we met for our feedback appointment today. Both girls got the ASD dx. The 3 yo had an ADOS score on the lower end of the ASD score range, while the 7 year old had a "close but passing" ADOS score, but the evaluator felt like it was still the right dx based on all the other information we had. And DH said that his clinician is finishing up the testing this Friday, but has said that ASD will likely be the dx as well (whereas before it was anxiety, depression, PTSD, OCD, and social anxiety...) So apparently I'm now in the minority of non-ASD people in my home now.... Me and the 5 yo... lol.

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