This exactly. The romantic husband is a good example; one of my good friends really, really loves romantic gestures from her husband, they are immensely important to her--and he has a romantic bent himself and enjoys thinking these things up and carrying them out. My husband is utterly pragmatic and doesn't have a romantic bone in his body, and I would find being married to someone who thought little romantic surprises would make me happy highly irritating. Of course dh and I have areas of friction in our lives, but we spent enough time together before marriage to have a good idea that we could comfortably live married to each other long term. There were others I dated that I could tell after a few weeks spending time together I would not be happy permanently attached to, and still others where there was never enough mutual interest to date at all or to go out together more than once.

Starred just for you :)

What I have seen is that the kind of casual dating where a guy or girl can go out with a different person every weekend, or three different people in one weekend, in a fun "hey let's go bowling and get to know each other a bit and have a good time" way without any particular expectation that more will come of it than a fun evening doesn't exist in many places anymore. It seems even in settings where dating doesn't necessarily mean sex there is a sense of even one date being the beginning of an exclusive (even if temporary) kind of relationship.

I've seen the kind if courtship you're talking about, it is more what I would call real courtship and also very close to what I called dating when I was at the point of being interested in getting married. I think this group was trying to move away from dating as a series of involved but not committed relationships, and emphasizes more of a serious approach to relations with the opposite sex with the intent to find a lifetime partner. It was never about the parents controlling their children's lives and relationships. I appreciate you posting to point out that courtship is not necessarily synonymous with controlled, parent initiated relationships and marriage.

I would love to see preschool and K-12 teachers reading more to their students as well. If all the time that is put into teaching reading skills to children under age seven or eight was instead spent reading to them, I bet we would have kids with much higher verbal and reading comprehension achievement in general, as well as fewer difficulties with and more enjoyment of independent when it was eventually introduced.

OK, so you are saying any two people with exceptional relationship skills can have a successful marriage. Sounds reasonable. Do you have a magical way to help ordinary people develop these exceptional skills, guaranteed? Most of us mere humans are a work in progress with unique combinations of strengths and weaknesses. A compatible marriage in my mind involves not just commitment on the part of both parties but also a degree of natural complementarity such that the different strengths and weaknesses of the individuals don't drag the whole relationship into chaos. As an example, dh is an orderly, linear thinking kind of guy, very steady in a course he is on but has a lot of anxiety about trying new things. I tend to be more willing to embrace challenges and change, but not to the point of jumping into things without thinking them through. Together we make a good team. If we were too much alike (say, both afraid to make a change, ending up almost paralyzed in life) or too different (if I just wanted everything to be spontaneous, couldn't plan or budget, turning life for dh into an endless cycle of anxiety and stress) the marriage would not likely be successful in any real terms even if we technically stayed married to each other. As it is, in addition to a mostly unified vision and goals we have strengths that compliment each other and weaknesses that are tolerable to each spouse.

I really don't agree with this. I would not be compatible with any of the guys my sisters chose to marry, even though their husbands are all decent men and their marriages are as happy as mine. Nor can I imagine any of my sisters married to my husband.

ETA woops somehow I quoted myself when I was trying to quote idnib The arranged marriages I am familiar with appear happy and successful as well, but they exist within a culture where that is the norm and there is a lot of tradition and cultural support. I am not sure how well the model works when, as seems to be happening within the courtship movement in certain religious groups, it is outside the culture and experience of even those parents doing the arranging.

I think you misinterpreted DesertBlossom's post. She was not saying don't date a person unless you think you want to marry them, she was saying that a young adult who is ready to look for a marriage partner should be dating in more than a casual group-date kind of situation, they should be looking to really get to know the people they date--which leads to exactly the kind of learning experience you describe.

Math Mammoth works well as a very easy to implement curriculum around here. For science, I like REAL Science Odyssey.

Also LDS, and this was the general expectation I grew up with but I found that outside of areas with large LDS populations it just was not the social expectation anymore. I basically didn't date until I was ready to start looking for a spouse, the opportunity to date multiple people in a casual way simply wasn't available when and where I lived as a teenager.

I would also want to observe the class. Do they take parent volunteers?

I love homeschool extracurriculars that are scheduled during the day, it's so easy for our evenings to get filled up with activities for the various kids, and evenings are the only time the whole family can be together.

I agree with this 100%. Dh and I were both virgins when we got married at ages 25 and 23. Neither of us would change that for the world.

I think the people behind this website etc. have a lot of "grass is greener" issues going on. Where the primary problem is abuse within the family, attending public school is unfortunately not a magical solution. And even being pulled from the home and put in foster care isn't always an improvement. It is so, so sad and the accountable adults are beyond contempt, but blaming the issues on homeschool itself and assuming they are somehow endemic to the homeschool community is not helpful. I had awful traumatizing experiences in public school, and while that has influenced me in my decision to homeschool my kids I do not see it as a reason to demonize public schooling.

Well, if it ever becomes not the norm for women to have babies we just may see the human race on the endangered species list... Unless of course you expect the men to start having babies? :D

This was my experience in California. The comments I got from random strangers when I was pregnant with #3! People would look at my little girl and boy, then my pregnant belly, and ask in complete bewilderment "why would you have another?" !!! Apparently a girl and a boy completes the set and one must be crazy to think another child to love is a good idea.

There has been some intriguing research into the possibility that DS is linked to folic acid deficiency; DS and neural tube defects both occur with increased frequency in families with an underlying problem processing folic acid. Folic acid supplementation in food has reduced the incidence of neural tube defects but not, so far, of DS, but one report I read suggested that the chromosomal abnormalities which lead to DS may arise when the mother herself is only a fetus and eggs are being formed; if folic acid supplementation has a positive effect there would be an entire generation time lag before it becomes evident. Beyond that, there is some very promising research into gene therapy which might some day be able to at least mitigate the effects of DS. http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/jul/17/downs-syndrome-cells-fixed-chromosome-therapy I would love to see more emphasis put on such research.

It sounds like you're in a very stressful situation, and maybe this has become a focus for that stress. How is your daughter doing? Is she happy in school? If she is happy, I think you need to put your energy into taking care of yourself. Make sure you're getting plenty of sleep, decent meals, some exercise and some outdoor time as often as possible. Consider talking to a doctor about the possibility of depression--uncontrollable crying is a major flag. You'll be better able to take care of your family and make the best decisions for your child if you take care of yourself first. Many hugs.

The threat around here is that we will beat the children with a wet noodle. Somehow they don't seem to be very intimidated by it...

This. Survival of the fittest relates to the processes of nature by which the most successful genes are passed on. Survival of the fittest is not an arbiter of human decisions and morality. I do not think even Dawkins believes that.

I would be interested to see their results. I agree that posting here will hopefully bring a wider audience, if they want results that are reflective of Christian homeschoolers overall the wider the audience the better.

Umm, I really don't think the topic of homosexuality is very relevant to the question of whether discouraging sex before marriage causes sexual problems after marriage. I think you're pulling the conversation way off track here.

I'm out of likes, but I agree wth this completely (except that I personally fall more towards the pro-life side). There is a huge difference between saying it can be an ethical choice and declaring that any other choice is immoral.

I'm not sure I would care who all was watching when I was actually in labor, as long as they didn't try to interfere! And yeah, don't care who here's me hollering either...just as long as that baby makes it's appearance eventually!