Interesting thoughts, though there are also environmental toxins in our air, water and food supply that did not exist in the past and could have a negative effect on fertility.

BTW Hoppy, I do think that if you take the example of a young woman who gives birth within a year of marriage and is pregnant again within a year of that, you are very likely looking at someone who, if her lifestyle is such as to maximize childbearing (frequent intercourse, no attempt to prevent conception by natural or artificial means), is likely to have 8+ children.

Miscarriages are so hard. I found out last week that my friend whose baby was due within two weeks of mine had had a late miscarriage. This is her third pregnancy loss in the past two years. I feel awful knowing that my own pregnancy/eventual baby will be a continual reminder of her recent loss.

I agree with you that assuming a woman who marries young and does not try to prevent pregnancy will only have five or so children would be foolish, but I think it would be equally foolish to assume she will have ten to fifteen children. Statistics only tell us averages, they cannot predict an individual experience. My sister was married at twenty-one and has never tried to prevent conception.She is now twenty-nine and has one child. I was married at twenty-three, and have not tried to avoid conception except in any way except for a period of about four months. I am now thirty-six and pregnant for the sixth time. I will be quite surprised if I wind up with children in the double digits even if I do nothing from here on out to avoid conception.

The average I quoted was six. Remember, an average would take into account women who are not able to conceive at all. Fertility rate and conception rate are also quite different. Do miscarriage rates go up with age? Anecdotally I know several women who had a number of successful pregnancies in their twenties and early thirties, then suffered a series of miscarriages.

Assumptions that what you do must be easy for you are definitely annoying. My mom was sick all the way through most of her pregnancies. She tells me that after her fifth she was on the phone with a friend who had ten children, and told her "I can't imagine doing this five more times!" After her seventh, which was a horrific delivery, she decided she just couldn't do it again. But she wasn't really ready to make a permanent decision not to have more children, and taking each pregnancy one at a time was eventually delighted to have ten children to love. I can't tell you the number of times during this current pregnancy that I have thought or said "I don't think I can ever face this again" but the truth is I know this is just not the time to make that decision, and in a couple of years I very likely will be making the choice to embark again on the journey of pregnancy and welcome another child.

It looks like this all got discussed in my absence, but since you quoted me I'll throw in a response. I've been trying to remember where my number came from, and I think it actually came from a discussion with a doctor. I'm afraid I don't have a source to reference. the number doesn't seem low to me. I know many women with primary or secondary infertility. I also know many women who have suffered multiple miscarriages. Fertility rates take into account only live births, so they will differ from conception rates. Within my own family, two of my sisters spent several years trying to conceive unsuccessfully after marrying in their early twenties. One eventually had four children, the other has one child and has not been able to conceive again. DH and I spent a year trying before I became pregnant with our first. It does usually take me over a year for my cycle to return, and then it is usually several more months before I become pregnant. One of my best friends has had six live births and four pregnancy losses, another has been through eight or nine miscarriages. Averages of course can't tell any individual woman what her fertility will be. But I think it is just as unrealistic for a woman to assume that without birth control she will end up with a dozen or more children as it is to assume she won't end up with any. There is a reason that fertility clinics are big business.

Perhaps any time a thread is closed the moderator could include a summary of the rules of behavior, so everyone would have a chance to review them (not just the rule that was broken). It seems there is often confusion about the rules and expectations.

Agreeing that it doesn't sound like your DD is ready to run around the neighborhood unsupervised. In our last neighborhood there was a group of kids ages 6-9 who ran around together; one child was very disrespectful of property and boundaries and encouraged the others to do the same. The kids actually broke into our house when we were on vacation and created a huge mess, including playing with matches lighting paper on fire inside the house. The six year old was a friend of my daughter's and a very sweet girl, she would never have been involved in such a plan if she had not been following someone else. Given everything you have said, especially the part about this girl encouraging your DD to be sneaky and dishonest, I would keep them far away from each other and absolutely stop the running around the neighborhood together outside your supervision. I'm sorry. I would be working to create other social outlets for your child.

DH is one of 9 siblings and I am one of 10. Family sizes in our generation among those who consider their families complete range from 2-12 children. The most common family size is 4-6 children (excluding for now unmarried siblings and those who have wanted children but been unable to conceive). Each couple makes their own decisions based on factors such and mental and physical health and how they experience their capacity for parenting. It is a personal decision made by each couple. I remember reading somewhere that the average lifetime fertility rate for women, assuming no birth control, is about six children. That of course takes into account that some women will have no children and a very few will have 20+. I would assume that later marriage ages in most modern societies would lower that rate significantly; even among women who choose not to intentionally limit pregnancies having children in the double digits is going to be the exception not the rule. We're currently expecting baby#6, and as far as I know this will not be our last. From an LDS perspective, choosing to bring children into the world is not so much about avoiding BC as it is about providing an earthly home for spirits who are eagerly waiting. DH and I weren't really planning another pregnancy quite this soon (we were pretty overwhelmed after #5) but early this year we both had a distinct impression that there was a child who wanted to come. My feeling is that if a child wants to join our family I also want to welcome them.

I'm curious whether anyone knows what has become of the Pearl children (these are mostly their own children in the examples, right?) Have they followed the same parenting style or found a different way?

Salt is for grapefruits, not melons. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Oh lighten up. Mom runs off to a convent leaving kids behind...

Thank you for sharing this resource!

I hope everything works out well for you!

Oh, you've given me an idea! I've been mulling over the idea for awhile of starting an organization that would run some kind of a read-aloud program for kids. But how to reach the kids who really need it? I think I might know how to reach at least some of them. I don't know if this program exists everywhere, but in our area there is a summer lunch program for kids ages 1-18. Lunches are provided at selected schools in the area, they choose schools in areas where lots of kids qualify for free lunch but any child who comes in gets lunch. I've seen daycare busses of children pull up. It wouldn't be perfect, but if we set up a read-aloud program during or right after the lunch hour I bet it could reach a lot of kids who's care givers might not sign them up for a program at the library or something. I need to talk to some people about this....

My guess? The majority ideal is two children per family (bonus points if you get a boy and a girl). More than two? Nasty comments. Less than two? Nasty comments. Which is just sad all around.

This sounds good. It sounds like the bully is still in your dd's dorm, perhaps she can be moved to another dorm?

Wow what a mess. I am so sorry you and especially your daughter have been through this. On the whole, I don't think this one girl can ruin the college experience for your daughter. If she is as rude and obnoxious as she sounds, other people are going to catch on very quickly. While it would be nice to be away from her entirely, I don't think it is worth leaving a good fit college situation over a bully. I do think your daughter should keep track of any future interactions with this girl, with witnesses if possible.

Thanks for posting the statistics.

The fact that they aren't complaining doesn't mean they aren't getting comments. I don't think I mentioned my experience to anyone except friends in similar circumstances.

When we lived in California people definitely looked askance at--and felt free to make rude comments to--a mom with more than two kids in tow. Where I live now larger families are relatively common, but given that the birthrate overall for the US is below two children per women, I'm thinking your area must not be typical if most families have four or more children.

Practice test for both. Maybe not quick and easy, but the practice should at least be beneficial :)

I'm so sorry. Doesn't seem right that your own nervous system should be able to hijack your body like that :(

Doesn't seem to have done much good, there must be a bunch of 1-stars on there.