Thanks that makes complete sense. I'll have a look into Fan Math :)

Thanks for your reply elmerRex, great food for thought. Here's a few of the problems from CWP - page 32-33: 158+93+42 997+605 126-75 163-92 85x5 462x5 620/5 905/5 There are a lot of suggested worked examples, but my initial thoughts were why not pull out the calculator and be done with it? Hi Sunnyday, thanks for your reply. Since that post, I decided, as far as mastery of mental maths, that I would only require mastery of multiplication (up to 1-12) and addition/subtraction (1-12). We did finish multiplication, and we're now working through two books on addition and subtraction facts by Kate Snow. However, when I look at the worked solutions in CWP, it becomes a little overwhelming. I just don't know if it's worth making the effort to go beyond these basics.

Last week we came across some mental math problems (CWP 3) that involved 4-5-6 digits problems involving multiplication, addition, subtraction and division. Is it really necessary or even useful to spend time training you kids to solve mental math problems at this difficulty level?

This post has already gone pear-shaped beyond repair. I prefer a PM/private dialogue, I don't like calling anyone out. But when one's choice is disrespected because one has decided to afterschool, and their ideas quashed... one could either ignore the critics or silence them. So let me finish off by pointing out one last hypocrisy - the argument about "...not realising that this is an afterschooling question" (full context here: https://goo.gl/XgcQTh) EngOZ, on 24 Feb 2017 - 10:28 AM, said: My 7 yo dd is very reluctant to do any kind of afterschooling. She's in grade 2 and is doing well in academics. She's a social butterfly, very creative, and would prefer to draw and colour in, rather than do any after school work. Often I have to resort to banning her online games time or not paying her for her chores to get her to act. I don't really like this tug of war and I was hoping that you can share what you use to motivate your own reluctant learner. okbud, on 24 Feb 2017 - 10:45 AM, said: I'd either homeschool or send her to school. She's seven. No amount of external motivation, even if successful, is worth spending more than 8 hours a day in a school frame of mind. okbud, on 24 Feb 2017 - 10:48 AM, said: Wait, there's an agreement in place that she's paid for chores, but you don't pay her even though she does them to """motivate""" her to do more school after she's been at school all day where, in your words, she is doing very well? Dude. That's a recipe for resentment and a shut-down.

This is a serious problem, and why you need to understand that you're making gross assumptions. For example, you assert I do 3 full math curriculum. Wrong. I change curriculum often - last month we were on MathUSee, now I use Math Mammoth as our main curriculum. My children don't use a formal math curriculum at school. And yes, I've ordered two curriculum, CWP and BA, but we've spent nearly two months doing CWP, we haven't touched Beast. Will we stick with CWP, maybe, will it change by next week, next month? Critical Thinking - we spent 1-2 days on it, completely dropped. LA, I said we do narration, dictation, copywork, etc. In reality, we gave those things a try, but since my post we've only stuck with 10-20 min read aloud in bed, listening to audio cd's and just practicing narration in different forms. I'm still trying to figure out narration that will suit my kids learning style. I come here to learn from the wisdom and experience of other homeschoolers. And when I find something that works for me and my children, like Miquon Math, Phnomics Pathway, CWP, etc. I refine my approach. My children are excelling academically, we're more bonded from time spent learning together...that's just priceless. I could go on, and on and on. This list will change faster than you can type your next post. What's the point of thinking you know our afterschooling style, or that you know me and my children enough that you can explain it to other people on here? Have you spoken to my childrens teachers? Do you know our family values, and cultural expectations? Do we even live in the same country and experience education in the same way? Do we even share the same schooling philsophy as to make such sweeping assumptions??? And for the little information you think know and that you readily and negatively share with others, you base it on 1-2 public posts that I've written on a public forum???? That borders on either stalking or cyberbullying. The only thing that's constant are the questions i ask. As I have said to Okbud, don't try to make public representations about me. If you have "baggage" to offload, you're welcome to PM me your concerns and I will try to answer them. So with respect, don't. make. assumptions. on the way I afterschool.

I'm working with my eldest dd towards more independence learning too. As a few have mentioned, I've started listen more and encouraging her to use the right math lingo. I also mark what she does so I can analyse her errors, and if there's too many, we stop and revisit what she's done. Over the last few days, we've been going back over some of those errors and working on them together. This is great because we get to spot the gaps in her learning, and so fill it and move on.

Hi Okbud, again I think that you and CadenceSophia are making the wrong assumptions about the way I afterschooling. I'm here to learn from others, not make how I afterschool an issue. So if you feel strongly that I'm doing something wrong, than maybe I need to rethink what I'm doing. I'm willing to explain my situation, but I don't want to do so on a public forum for obvious reasons. Feel free to pm me your questions and I'll try to clarify.

Sorry but you're making wrong assumptions.

Do you mind sharing your plan on how you supplement MM to BA, and BA to MM.

I didn't know that about BA, but thanks for the heads up :001_cool: It'll be interesting to see how others schedule it to make it work for them.

Thanks for your input hunter, I'll go back over those resources. I hope things get better :sad:

I brought all levels of BA 3/4 books and guides.

We received our shipment of BA and CWP about 2 months ago, after a few members highly recommended them for us to try as supplements. My goal is to add more word problems to my dd's math learning. So far both of my girls love doing CWP. Depending on the problem, we might go hard 3,4,5 of the easy problems, or just 1,2,3 of the medium-hard problems. 7yo dd currently uses the Miquon Math Blue Book and CWP has become her favourite. I can see that Miquon - CWP is a really good fit for her and we mostly do the problems together as she is very social and vocal. Question The reason why I'm considering BA is that my oldest dd is pretty mathy. The material looks like it will greatly challenge and benefit her. But I'm reluctant to tackle it, mainly because 5th grade is about my math level and, again because of time. I like BA and it's word problems, and I wouldn't mind setting CWP aside so that my oldest dd can try out BA (she loves the cartoons and has expressed a desire to try it). However, we're also having so much fun with CWP and it's so easy for me to use that we've just stuck to it. We're afterschooling, and we want to make good use of our time - so far CWP has met this need. My oldest dd is using MM 5A, so would BA be a good fit? Should I leave out BA and just stick to CWP, or give BA ago - maybe 1-2 months? How would you schedule BA, do you go from start to finish with BA or by topic to align with mm (current 5A)?

Thanks for the detailed steps Sherry OH :laugh: I appreciate everyones advise, and to those who kindly took time to write detailed steps... I think my first step is to find a whiteboard and come back to this post.

:confused1: My dd does not have a learning issue. But I get your point about the appropriateness of being asked to do two skills.

Thanks for the detailed post mathmarm :laugh:

The question is in the title "Should I expect my child to narrate back what they learn when doing maths?" And yes it has to do with understanding.

As part of learning to work independently, I ask my 5th grade dd to teach back what she is learning when she does MM. However, when she teaches back what she has learnt to me, she is generally incoherent, there are lots of um's and er's and finger pointing. I require her to explain in complete sentences, because if she were to explain the concepts to someone learning it for the first time, they simply wouldn't understand it. I'm conscious however that this process often takes up time. I also feel that narration is a different activity to math, and I'm not sure whether I should leave this to when we actually do LA. Am I being too pushy expecting proper narration, and asking her to speak in complete sentences?

With my two girls 7/10yo: Miquon Math / supplement with Challenging Word Problems (book 1) Math Mammath / supplement with either Beast Academy or Challenging Word Problems (book 4) LA - we read through the WTM recommended History books and do narration, dictation, copywork They also participiate in swimming and crafts activities during the week.

Cool calbear, I've seen exercises in the HIG's but I've never heard of the Fan Math books before.

Yes we do use CWP, but working without a calculator, my kids are forced to apply their mental math skills anyway during a typical math lesson. There is plenty of practice here. However I was just curious if people deliberately pick out problems to practice mental maths skills with their kids, i.e. have a set of problems or facts for their kids to solve/memorise.

Thanks everyone, in the primary years, what do you want your kids to know/master when it comes to mental math?

I've never really done any mental math - not consistently anyway- with my kids at the primary level. I don't see it as a necessity, but I see it's value i.e learning the times table. In the primary grades my kids don't use a calculator, they tend to work things out in their heads or with their fingers. There's also enough problems to tax their brains in a typical lesson. That's my justification.

Thanks Elroisees I'll give it a listen.

By having a say in what books I want dd to read, and what writing/research assignments I would like her to do (with the teachers approval), we pretty much get LA/History covered. It's a win-win, for the teacher and us, plus I get to keep tabs and have a say in her learning. In the words of her teacher, her class is pretty "mathy" so they don't get that much math homework. I must add 1) we don't live in the US, 2) this is an Opportunity Class and not a typical 5th grade class. DD is still working on her time management skills, so I sit down with her and help her schedule her week. We write everything down, and break up her homework into little timeslots - this is how we schedule her afterschooling session. I've gotten used to her homework routine, so no surprises there. Eventually I'll let her plan her own week once she's more mature, but working with her on a weekly/daily basis with her planner has really helped us to be efficient with our afterschooling.