Your posts are always so helpful, Boscopup! So do you just do Read Alouds outside of this time? I guess one reason our RA time seems to be working well is that it gives us a bit of a break at a good time. I like the "rhythm" it has created, but I'll probably play around with our routine/rhythm. :) It also looks like your son maybe does his independent reading at a different time? If so, maybe our schedules aren't really all that different? Boscopup, how do you do R&S spelling just 3 days per week? I have DD do one section per day for M-W. Thursday she writes out her words 2 to 3 times. Then Friday is the test. I'm actually considering letting her take a break from spelling and, for a while, do books 7 & 8 from ETC. I think there are things in there regarding word endings and syllables that 'might' help her with spelling/reading anyway. Wow - your son is already doing pre-algebra? Maybe Writing & Rhetoric takes us so long because we, being a bunch of girls, talk too much? Ha ha! The writing part for my daughter really takes quite a while, but maybe it's because she likes to think it all through quite a bit. If it's an amplification, she usually works on her rough draft for about 2 days. Then we go over it together, mark it up, talk about what can be "fixed" (spelling)/changed. Then she works for a day or two to re-write the whole thing. So maybe we'll just not get through the whole curriculum. Thanks again for taking the time to help! :) I'm going to really be re-thinking our routine/schedule and hopefully come up with something a bit different to try this next week!

So, as far as latin, I was thinking that was something that should be done together with my girls, but now it's looking like that wouldn't work? They would need to be at different levels, as they're 3 years apart. I suppose I could still try to do Prima Latina this year with DD9 and, if the youngers picked some stuff up from it, that would just be "gravy"?

Yes, she's doing fine in CLE and understands it, but I admit I was feeling like she was "supposed" to be doing something else besides that. We actually have Singapore CWP 3, but we haven't even touched it, because the CLE takes a while as it is. I think it's more of a "mind" thing for her (as far as taking forever). She "thinks" it's going to take forever...and so it does. Does that make sense? We have skipped some of the quizzes, but maybe we'll skip all of them. Sometimes I cross out some of the "We Remember" stuff, but not usually. Thanks!

Thank you so much for your encouraging advice! I'm confused, though, as I thought 9 yrs. old was the typical age for "most" of 4th grade? Most kids turn 10 during that year. My DD has an end of the school year birthday (May), but I thought this was still the "normal" age, ya know? I was 9 all through 4th grade as I have a summer birthday.

Wow - I had no idea that maybe we're taking way too long! My oldest DD esp. can be a rather slow worker, but I think writing is the biggest thing that takes up a lot of time. I don't see how we can even get a whole W&R lesson done in a week. Her amplifications, for example, are QUITE amplified. W&R is usually spread out over a couple weeks (and not done every single day). I've tried different things to help DD9 work more efficiently. Some days are better than others. For a while, I had her work upstairs on some independent work, but she is definitely a "social learner," so that was out. When we're all working at things at the table (or in the living room nearby), DD9 gets quite distracted with what I'm working on with the other two, although this IS improving. We DO already incorporate some "art" in things like science and history, but I guess I just wanted to do a bit of more "formal" art, too. After reading all these responses, I'm feeling like I shouldn't have even spent the money on Prima Latina. I guess I thought that, if I wait, DD9 will need something different, as I think PL is pretty easy? Since my DDs have been in the public school system, I guess I also have had this mentality that they need to get "caught up," but maybe I need to relax a bit. :) I don't see how we can do math just 4 days per week though, esp. with DD9. She's only in CLE 300 (book 308 right now), and I wanted her to get caught up to "grade level." As it is, I figured we would do 'some' math over the summer. But we DO want a summer break (where we'll just do a bit of math, reading, and lots of outside time). So here's how a typical day looks: Start school around 8:00. Maybe listen to and sing along with a song or two before 8:00. First is math. I work with DDs6 while DD9 works independently for the most part. Then everyone does penmanship. DDs6 still need some guidance with this. While DDs6 do their flashcards together, I do flash cards with DD9. 9:00 (or sometimes later for DD9 since math can take quite a while for her some days). I do the Handbook for Reading with DDs6 while DD9 does spelling on her own. When she finishes with that, she'll usually go on to grammar (if it's a lesson she can do mostly on her own). After the Handbook, one of DDs 6 will read out loud to me while the other does Abeka Letters and Sounds and Language pages. They might also do a page or two of ETC. I know the Abeka Language and ETC aren't listed in my siggy. I just got a couple of ETC books for the twins, but maybe it's too much "busy work"? I just want them to do something productive while I'm working one on one with someone, because otherwise they'll just get into trouble. :) Sometimes one will do Starfall while I'm working with the other one. 10:00 - break/snack time. I often can check DD9s work. 10:30 - DD9 will correct her work in math and spelling. DDs6 do Starfall, a puzzle, or math shape tiles or something like that while I work with DD9 on grammar and/or writing. 11:00 - I do FLL or WWE with DDs6 11:15 - Help DD9 finish things up 11:30 - Read Aloud 12:00 - lunch prep, hubby comes home for lunch, lots of talking and getting wiggles out, etc. 1:00 - Reading/rest time. I have some health issues so this rest time is important for me, too. I also have to be careful that I make time for myself to eat snacks here and there as I've had some issues with hypoglycemia at times. 2:00 - history or science (history usually includes a written narration (though sometimes I write it for DDs6) - Science sometimes includes a bit of narration (but the ES we're using is geared more for 2nd/3rd, not 4th) 3:00 - done So, as you see, DDs6 aren't working on "school" that entire time. I DO need to make a scheduled time for their reading, esp. for DD9. She won't just "choose" to read on her own usually. We live in a rural kind of area, but there are actually TONS of neighbor kids close by. So DDs always want to go out to play with their friends in the afternoon. Besides Wednesday night (Awana), we sometimes do some read alouds at night (sometimes Bible), but not always. Sometimes we have too much going on in the evenings for that. I can't usually do Read Alouds at lunch, because by then I need to make sure that I eat something. Any suggestions for our routine would be greatly appreciated, although you've already given a lot of great ideas. I guess, for writing, maybe my expectations are too high? For example, for DD9...if she does a history narration, does she also need to do W&R that day? Or is that too much? I also got the Killgallon book recently (Sentence Composing) and thought we could do that maybe one day a week? Thanks so much for your help, everyone! It sure would be a relief if I could work it out for our day to be a bit shorter. :)

I'd love to be able to do more of the "extras," and I was wondering if any of you can elaborate on what that looks like for you? How do you "fit" it into your day/schedule? As of now, we usually start school at 8:00 and we're done around 3:00ish. I really don't want "school" to last longer than that. This includes about a half hour break in the morning and a one hour lunch break. The first hour after lunch is "reading time" for the oldest, and the youngers usually read for about 30 min. of that time. I'm specifically wondering about things like Latin and Art. I LOVE art and want my girls to love it, too, but so far we haven't done any sort of lessons. I have the Drawing with Children book and I'd like to use things out of that. We sometimes get artist books at the library and read about their lives, etc. (we've been getting World's Greatest Artists, as well as the Composers). I have Prima Latina but haven't touched it. So I was thinking I could wait until January to start Prima Latina (which would give the youngers a better chance to be ready for it). In the meantime, I could do art lessons for the rest of this "semester," maybe. It just seems like, in order to fit it in, something "important" will have to go. So I'd love to hear how some of you DO the extras. :) Thanks!

Ha ha! The only other book my DD has not enjoyed so far this year was The Whipping Boy, too! I think it's just that the "language" is rather unfamiliar, ya know? We had already planned to finish that one together. :)

Yeah, as I've talked to her more, I really DO think she just was enjoying the Trailblazer book more and wants to read the rest of those. She said she 'might' finish reading Cricket after that. She's up to about chapter 5, I think. So maybe I'll try to read a couple chapters of it at that point to get her interested again. :)

Thanks everyone! Yes, she chose this book out of several choices, but while reading it she also started and finished reading a Trailblazer book (Flight of the Fugitives). She really liked that one and wanted to read another (since I got several in that series in a "lot"). But, even besides that, she didn't seem to like A Cricket in Times Square anyway. Maybe we'll read it as a Read Aloud. :) Thanks for putting my mind at ease concerning letting her "drop" the book. :laugh:

I've mostly just tried to allow DD9 to choose from a variety of books for her reading. I do, however, want her to have at least some challenge at times. I've done that by suggesting books at or slightly above her reading level. If she doesn't LOVE it, she can read it for a set amount of time (ex: 30 minutes) and then read whatever she wants after that. Right now she chose to read "A Cricket in Time's Square." I admit that I don't think I've ever read the book, but it seems to be on many lists of good books. She's several chapters in and says she doesn't like it. "It's boring." So what do you all do in a situation like this? Have the child continue to read the book or let them quit and try another? I don't want her to read the beginnings of several books and then not finish them out, ya know? This is for her independent reading time, so it's not a time where I'm free to take turns reading with her.

I used Spelling Workout with my older daughter last year and she HATED the paper! Horrible for erasing (because it tears so easily). I'm actually also looking into CLP Building Spelling Skills now. I wonder how that compares to R&S?

Just now getting a chance to see these responses. I know lots of people seem to LOVE AAS, but honestly we can't afford that at this time (unless I found a super good deal). We do use some phonogram tiles (at least I'm trying to). Thanks for the responses and shared experiences! I'm off to look at some of these more in-depth. :)

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I know I've done several posts about spelling lately. Sorry... I currently have Abeka Spelling for my first graders, but I'm just not sure it's the best fit for them. We're using Abeka phonics for reading which is great, so I thought I'd use the spelling too. NOT liking it. Maybe it's just a bit too challenging for one of my girls? I don't know...I've tried to use it and ADD to it, doing word play, etc. But as I look ahead to the upcoming lessons, I'm not sure that it works well to have lessons where they mix words with 'ow' and 'ou' or "ight" and "ite" in the same lesson, etc. Seems confusing. I'm looking into Apples and Pears a bit, but it sounds like possibly excessive writing? I'd like to find a workbook spelling program that will have my girls "work with" the words a bit more than Abeka. Can anyone tell me anything about A Reason For Spelling? Evan Moore? Another workbook spelling? Would R&S spelling Grade 2 be too hard? I can't tell from the minimal sample pages listed. One of my girls is reading at a 2nd grade level and the other is probably more "end of 1st grade" level. I'd like to keep them doing the same spelling if possible, although the one who reads a bit better DOES seem to have an easier time with spelling. I don't think I want SWO, either. Thanks in advance!

Ahhh, those who have shared their experiences are making it so tempting to buy A&P! Still not sure... She IS improving in her spelling, but not as much as I 'think' she should be. I'm also interested now in A&P for my first graders, too. How do the "levels" work? Is it supposed to be book A in first...and then it just goes through 4th grade? Or??? I went ahead and tested DD9, and she 'just' passed (missed 3) the Book B, Level 1 pre-test, so I guess she could start at level B. I also wondered if that DOES indicate a need for extra spelling help? Like, if book D is actually considered 4th grade level, then is she only at a 2nd grade spelling "level"? Hope that makes sense.

Or is this just "typical" poor spelling for a 4th grader? I'm using R&S Spelling by Sound and Structure for my 4th grade DD. It's going fine. She's scoring well on tests...so far only missing one word on a couple tests. But she did fine when she went to public school, too, with "memorizing" even harder word lists. But then could often not correctly spell the same word again in later writing. Some recent spelling errors from writing: pretty - perry battles - baddles, but then spelled 'battle' correctly the same day on a different paper (without my correction) guard - gard invaded - invated happen - hapen streets - streats (with this one, I think she KNOWS how to spell it, but is just lazy?) soldiers - sougers great - graet tried - tryed twitching - twiching (and we've recently gone over the 'tch' after a short vowel rule) growling - gralling purple - puple lion - spelled correctly, then spelled "line" in the same paragraph Should we just stay the course with what we're using? Has anyone who has switched to Apples and Pears had previous similar spelling issues that were helped? Or are these spelling "issues" just normal and will be worked out as time goes on? I'm starting to think a rules-based approach is maybe just not going to work. But maybe I haven't given it enough time.

Thanks for all the great suggestions!

Thanks! We've seen a couple of the Torchlighter's DVDs, but I'm specifically looking for books right now. Can you tell me anymore about the books you mentioned? Amazon doesn't show samples of these particular books.

I'm looking for some missionary stories/biographies. Preferably not above a 5th grade reading level. And maybe even not very long. Any suggestions?

Can anyone clarify for me - I can't make copies of the workbook pages for later (siblings)?

I'm curious, too, what didn't work with R&S. It can be tweaked quite a bit to "make it work." Doing more orally than what is laid out, using a white board for diagramming, etc. I would say my DD probably wouldn't have done well with that kind of "independent notebook work" in 3rd grade, but so far it's going okay this year. It's helping her to learn neatness and organization.

For the possible benefit of others reading this thread, I wanted to say that I decided to stick with R&S for now. I'll make sure to go over rules with DD and have some word play. As far as reading, we had her evaluated by a reading professional, and she's reading a grade level "ahead." There were no red flags. I sometimes wonder if my expectations for her are just too high. She has done well with the spelling we're using, so far getting 100% or missing just one on tests. Her spelling in other writing is improving as well. I've printed out some syllabication rule cards as well as a Spelling Rules reference chart. So I think we're good to go for now! Your posts DID help me to think this all through. :)

Thanks!! Would it work to put my youngers in book 1 and do the same "rules" with all of them at the same time? Or does it not work that way?

Can anyone help me to figure out the differences between Spell to Write and Read and The Writing Road to Reading? What all is needed for each program?