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Hunter

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Everything posted by Hunter

  1. Here is a thread at another forum Is there a literary equivalent of "outsider" art? https://www.reddit.com/r/AskLiteraryStudies/comments/2we2vm/is_there_a_literary_equivalent_of_outsider_art/ In visual art there is an idea that some people can make art outside of an academic, scholarly, formal system of schooling and production. Is there anything similar in the literary world? If not, is it because all literature is outside, none is, or it is somehow irrelevant? If it's an irrelevant question, why? Oh and what are some good examples? ... I was looking through the examples of Outsider Art on Wikipedia, and oddly the thought struck me that the closest you might get in someone that "made it" in literature is John Bunyan. He probably didn't finish secondary school, but unlike most was monolingual, and didn't like literature outside of the English Bible. ... I know this thread is 4 months old now, but I'd be interested in continuing it. I came here with the same question. It seems to me that what defines both outsider art and music is not so much a lack of formal training/education as such or a work produced outside of the academy/establishment/community as such, but rather--a highly eccentric work that, without being self-conscious, betrays no sense of normative protocols for the art form or effortlessly fails at those protocols in aesthetically interesting ways (even if it knows them). It's the naiveté or outré that's of central importance, in my opinion. I think, from this point of view, that with the exception of Darger, the writers listed thus far would not count (they were all too knowledgable and/or "good" despite whatever education or marginal status they had). Just my opinion. But what authors might match my description?
  2. Look at this painting. It tells the story as well as a more sophisticated and "correct" painting. What if the painter were told that he should not paint his story at all, or was given so much "help" that he gave up before finishing it? https://magazine.artland.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Webp.net-compress-image-2-4.jpg Are there any parallels to writing?
  3. I think I am interested in folk art that overlaps with outsider art, but is not fully outsider art. This artist is interesting! But beyond what I am thinking about. https://dimitrizoellin.com/outsider-art-paintings/ This guy does it all "wrong", but it is art. Is writing that is all "wrong" still writing?
  4. DISCLAIMER: I am giving my OPINION about tutoring, not about what is best for homeschooling moms! How to Tutor Handwriting is a slanted style. I follow the order of instruction, but not the handwriting style. When TUTORING people that are LEFT handed and LEARNING DISABLED, I strongly believe in first teaching manuscript that is vertical and has NO SLANT. Don potter's instructions are free. I recommend printing this pdf. Shortcut to Manuscript http://www.donpotter.net/pdf/shortcut_to_manuscript.pdf Don Potter only teaches slanted cursive, and I do not like to switch students from vertical to slanted. If I teach cursive, I teach vertical cursive. The best free instructions for vertical cursive right now are in this Yes Phonics pdf on pages 35-37. I do not teach cursive uppercase letters. I have students continue to use the manuscript uppercase letters with the cursive lowercase letters. I recommend printing pages 35-37. https://books.google.com/books?id=nFc_AgAAQBAJ&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&source=gbs_navlinks_s Cursive requires a student to multitask. Some students can print, but not multitask enough to think ahead enough to join the letters. They need to write one letter, finish it, and then start the next letter. I test students for their ability to multitask before I decide if I will teach cursive. I do not base the decision on the their hand-eye coordination. I may be wrong, but these are the conclusions that I came to, the hard way, while TUTORING people that were LEFT handed and had LDs. I tried cursive first for tutoring, and I cannot recommend that. Students have begged me to teach them slanted handwriting and fancy uppercase letters, and it severely interfered with their progress in reading and composition. I now refuse to teach it. I decided that as a tutor, I have the right to limit the product that I offer. I offer what I offer. Just because I am not charging a fee does not mean that I do not have the same rights as someone selling a product. Yes students had no one else willing to teach them slanted cursive for free, but that did not make it my responsibility to teach it. One-on-one is very different than teaching a group. Part of tutoring is the personal dynamics of working one-on-one with someone. Boundary issues come up. I never found a book on that, but maybe there is one. I just muddled my way through and learned what worked for me.
  5. For composition and grammar, Eli Hoenshel's instructions for grades 1-4 on pages 6-19 are worth printing out. Progressive Course in English https://books.google.com/books?id=Zn8SAAAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
  6. Arithmetic made simple is out of print, but there are still a lot of used copies hanging around. https://www.amazon.com/Arithmetic-Made-Simple-Robert-Belge/dp/0385239386/ref=sr_1_2?crid=L7E211O3HFB7&keywords=Arithmetic+made+simple&qid=1653541878&s=books&sprefix=arithmetic+made+simple%2Cstripbooks%2C358&sr=1-2 This picks up where How to Tutor ends, and follows the same traditional scope and sequence in Ray's but it more current.
  7. How to Tutor is an amazing book. You can find it cheap used even though it is a bit pricey new. You can find free pdfs online. http://blumenfeld.campconstitution.net/Books/How To Tutor.pdf The new books are a photocopy that is not as clear as the older versions. Buy used if you can. It is good to see all of you again, too!
  8. How to Tutor by Blumenfeld https://www.amazon.com/How-Tutor-Samuel-L-Blumenfeld/dp/0941995011 The same author wrote Alpha Phonics https://www.amazon.com/How-Tutor-Samuel-L-Blumenfeld/dp/0941995011 Don Potter has resources to supplement Blumenfeld's books http://www.donpotter.net/reading_clinic.html Ruth Beechick's The 3 R's https://www.amazon.com/Three-Rs-Ruth-Beechick/dp/0880620749 Beechick wrote a teachers manual for the 1830's version of the McGuffey readers that has a lot of information that can be applied to How to Tutor and Alpha Phonics. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0880620978/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_bibl_vppi_i3 Some of it is about using the Phonics Made Plain flashcards and poster. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0880621486/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_taft_p1_i0 Ray's Practical Arithmetic, especially this older 1885 edition that is not in print. Notice the review questions at the bottom of the pages. https://vinairemath.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/1885-rays-practical-arithmetic.pdf Pricey, but the chapter on teaching arithmetic is amazing. Maybe you can get it through interlibary loan. https://pilgriminstitute.org/index.php/store/books/a-guide-to-american-christian-education
  9. In my research into folk writing I stumbled upon the book Martin Eden by Jack London. In my research into public domain book series, I stumbled upon Upward Bound by Horatio Algers which mentions The Biography of Ben Franklin. It is really interesting to be reading Upward Bound and watching the new film adaption of Martin Eden at the same time. Many people homeschool with a goal of upward mobility. I wonder if it would be possible to tweak a high school reading list to include more books with a theme of upward mobility so that a student could write a term paper on the topic. I was thinking we could list all the books in the public domain and maybe a few that are easily and cheaply available through used bookstores and the library that have a theme of upward mobility. Maybe we could write short reviews of some of the less known books, if we read one. How often do people seeking upward mobility commit suicide. I don't want to list the daughter of a famous urban educator. It feels cruel. Her mom is a real person not a book character. But I do want to discuss the end results for families that pursue upward mobility in general and especially in literature.
  10. I'm still listening to you all and I am doing more research. I know how much I don't know more than I know anything. In the past, I had stronger convictions, but the more I have experienced and learned, the less I am sure that I was right.
  11. If you have unlimited Great Courses, you probably have unlimited kids. If you poke around in there, you will find things that are appropriate for families with teens and adults too. They don't have all the Great Courses, but they have a lot of them. I always check Kanopy first before my other subscriptions. I was told by the library that they do not contract directly with the individual companies, but buy the access in bundles that are constantly changing. The library told me that even the librarians don't know all the library has, and that even when they do know, sometimes they have access to resources that they don't have permission to advertise on the website. If your library is like mine, your library is paying for things that are not listed. Sometimes you can get into databases through back doors, if you have already signed in to something connected. It is all pretty crazy.
  12. Some of us have unlimited viewing of the Great Courses and children's titles. They have everything from Nova documentaries to language learning videos to art. I can borrow 10 a month.
  13. Mixing secular academic prejudices with the Bible produces some interesting results. I have to stay detached from the mess. I have read a lot of articles and books about keeping your faith while in seminary. Laypeople are shamed for losing their faith and treated like it is an evil and rare thing. Seminaries have to deal with it head on, because it cannot be ignored when it happens so often. Learning to write in the style of a seminary and comparing it to the style of other seminaries reminds me of the Amish and Mennonites being able to tell what church or conference women are from by the very subtle differences in the clothing. I think some seminaries pride themselves on the subtle differences in their style guide, and care about that more than the content of a paper.
  14. If you have a free subscription to Kanopy through your library, there is new film adaption of Jack London's Martin Eden. It is not in English but has English subtitles. Youtube has a 1940's version.
  15. I am still researching this topic. Forgive me. I want to research again how Jack London and Benjamin Franklin taught themselves to write. Hemingway chose to write his novels like he wrote newspaper articles, which was not done at the time. I think I want to read this book! Jack London's lesser known works are really interesting. The working-class protagonist of Jack London's Martin Eden (1909) embarks on a path of self-learning to win the affections of Ruth, a member of cultured society. By the end of the novel, Eden has surpassed the intellect of the bourgeois class, leading him to a state of indifference and ultimately suicide. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autodidacticism Autodidacticism (also autodidactism) or self-education (also self-learning and self-teaching) is education without the guidance of masters (such as teachers and professors) or institutions (such as schools). Generally, autodidacts are individuals who choose the subject they will study, their studying material, and the studying rhythm and time. Autodidacts may or may not have formal education, and their study may be either a complement or an alternative to formal education. Many notable contributions have been made by autodidacts.
  16. In my seminary courses, I was introduced to the term "folk theology". The term is often used by professors to dismiss the beliefs that students learned in their home churches. Sorry that I brainstorming with an audience. folk [fōk] plural noun people in general: people, especially people of the same type (takes a plural verb) noun music Same as folk music (takes a singular verb) adjective 1. traditional in community: relating to the traditional culture passed down in a community or country folk customs 2. from ideas of ordinary people: relating to the traditional beliefs or ideas of ordinary people [ Old English folc < Indo-European,"fill"] Microsoft® Encarta® 2009. © 1993-2008 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
  17. I've been to college now. I know how much some professors teach and expect students to write from a template. I have learned to write in MLA well enough to earn 100's at a community college, I also taught myself to write in Chicago style for some online seminary courses and got 100's on the last two term papers. But after all this "success" at filling in pretty templates, I am not sure I think this is the most important writing that I have done, I don't use those formulas outside of making pretty transcripts. Those templates would cripple my ability to write in real life if I tried to use them. I want to go back to square one and revisit what I think about teaching writing to children.
  18. Folk paintings have a different focus and wider definition than the above definition of folk poetry https://sierranewsonline.com/how-art-shapes-our-lives-the-importance-of-folk-art/. How Art Shapes Our Lives: The Importance Of Folk Art Uninfluenced by movements or academic theories, ... Produced by the artistically inclined individuals of every culture on earth, folk art directly reflects the values of a society. ... Folk artists are generally self-taught or learn their skills through some type of informal apprenticeship. Often, they possess an inherent talent which emanates unstoppably from within, bouncing back and forth between different media as a means of expressing themselves. Also known as Naïve or Primitive, these artists are not concerned with the academic intricacies associated with fine art. Instead, they are inclined to work with whatever is readily available, and are driven to accomplish whatever they start out to do.
  19. Folk Poetry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folk_poetry#:~:text=Narrative folk poetry is often,use of exaggeration and contrast. Description[edit] Folk poetry in general has several characteristics. It may be informal and unofficial, generally lacks an owner and may "belong" to the society, and its telling may be an implicitly social activity.[1] The term can refer to poems of an oral tradition that may date back many years;[2] that is, it is information that has been transmitted over time (between generations) only in spoken (and non-written) form.[3] Thus as an oral tradition folk poetry requires a performer to promulgate it over generations.[4] The definition can also be extended to include not just oral epics, but latrinalia, many forms of childlore (skipping-rope rhymes, the words of counting-out games etc), and limericks;[5] as well as including anonymous or improvised poems.[6] Narrative folk poetry is often characterized by repetition, a focus on a single event (within an overall epic narrative if present), and an impersonal narration, as well as use of exaggeration and contrast.[7] It is thought that epics such as The Iliad, and The Odyssey derive from, or are modeled on earlier folk-poetry forms.[8]
  20. In the USA, it is rare for children to be strictly taught to draw the "right" way. With drawing, they are not graded for obedience to a template. I don't have a whole lot of conclusions about this. I am still trying to figure it out. But I think folk writing would be about anything. I have seen formulaic writing about folk art and folk literature; I don't think that is folk writing.
  21. What is most missing from this child's life? If I look back to my own childhood, the type of book most missing from my life was drawing books at my level. It was about at age nine that I knew I was not an artist. I wanted to still draw, but I was being mocked and shamed. I stopped drawing at about age 10. I had started copying anything that I saw other children doing that was easy enough to copy, but soon after that, no one drew anything that I could copy. I think most of us stopped drawing at about the same time.
  22. I have become convinced that writing is an art. We have something called folk art. Do we have folk writing? If we do, is writing in the style or genre of folk writing "right". If classical art is no more "right" than folk art, is the writing taught in an AP classes any more "right" than folk writing?
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