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MrsMe

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  1. Interesting. DD chose it over HOD WG. But it's so full and planning it, I'm on Chapter 9 and I have to break because it's a snooze. I am backing it up with other books though, but it's hard to choose what to do. And of course no one does it without DL. Ugh. Thanks.
  2. For those who have done this, how did you schedule this out? How much of the Activity Guide, research if any, did you do. I'm just looking for ideas. Also, there's a review in the Activity Guide and one in the book. The one in the Activity Guide is pretty simplistic over the one in the book. Did you use either/or? If I ask on BJU they always go "there" LOL! That is, "Why don't you use DL?" or they just say, "We do it all". How did you do it?
  3. I think the history choices are fine if you enjoy her choices and I always have, although some spines not so much. I think you can add what you've learned in grammar and writing. Seems like a given but be aware of doing it more, by utilizing the note-taking or outlining or writing a letter to someone you read about. Apply those to history and drop some of the basic narrations. There's a place for a short narration and a long narration, because it's detail vs main idea, but not through WG anymore. I would add getting the students into more mental connections and opinions or add to the Biblical connections. I'd drop the busywork. First, I'd read CM narrations though. I think it can work that way, just getting them started sooner on thought. Plus by doing that you'll understand what the expectations truly are. SCM's site has a "Narrations" book you can buy I think it's $15.. It's quite helpful for the CM method.
  4. Thanks Kristen. I sort of moved the thread to K-8 and it seems to be the consensus as I thought as well.
  5. So could it be then that the parents (or myself, really) are expecting more for the age level than is what's "normal"?
  6. I've used the guides from Beyond and now have WG to begin in the fall, so I've used it all the way through. No one is saying there aren't "any" higher level thinking. The fact is I've gathered my information from many places and just don't see the progression as I feel it should be and certainly not to the rigor of CM according to the samples in the CM book. My child loves history and loves to write. Longer and more doesn't mean more thoughtful or depth. Longer summaries are just longer summaries - an additive or a void of detail. And detail doesn't equal depth of thought either. For me, I'm talking higher level thinking skills and you've complete RTR. But it's been our experiences that something is missing and you have another experience. That's okay. Not everyone's children learn the same and enjoy the same things. From our experiences we feel there's a common problem, however how much or how little we've all used. And this has far been a "negative thread", but an honest and insightful one with respect and it's been quite appreciated. Perhaps you can add your more detailed experiences. I'm sure it would add to the thread and be welcomed.
  7. Let me say that I don't want to drive anyone away from HOD. (I) see it as a problem, some may not. But it is, if you're comparing it to the rigor of CM. I think it can be fixed though if you are worried about it and still use HOD. Just make the writing better earlier, read up on CM narrations to give you a decent model, and apply your writing lessons from R&S and other programs they're utilizing to your work in lieu of those basic narrations, continually upping the rigor. I'd rather have 1 great than 3 basic. And (I) would do it by bypassing the unneeded copywork, common place entries, and summaries in the middle school guides if not by grade 5. But it's simply my opinion, and just an example.
  8. If you can get your hands on the Narrations book by Sonja Shaefer from the SCM site (if you like that method) I would utilize that and just increase the information. (SWB's writing lectures are also fantastic! and well worth the listen.) My personal opinion is that it's a bit too lateral, not enough increase and begins early on. But having that book, going to that site and getting the information, or utilizing all the writing they're learning from R&S or the other writing programs, would definitely be a plus and very doable. I would have expectations in their writing and most definitely find CM examples of the writing level they're looking for. They're quite beautiful. The high school levels aren't complete and most have not done WH yet, so we really don't know how much of a problem it is. I would just urge you to see CM writing samples.
  9. You can very well apply these instead of the narrations that are assigned. Absolutely!
  10. I'm not talking about Living Library, although maybe the other poster was. I'm confused on the 5 extra books for "literature," the Girl Option or Boy Option that is part of the Literature Credit when the BJU/R&S/EIW combo is already 1 credit. Living Library is different and has no credit. Yes.
  11. I'm missing something. There is no extra 1/2 credit. BJU is 1/2 per HOD and per BJU The rest of the 1/2 credit, to make up the full credit is doing R&S 7 2 days and EIW 2 days, but what throws a wrench is the 5 extra books all for the same single credit. The work for the living books isn't worthy of any credit. It's simply narration. So while I think it's just extra, it's not worthy of extra credit either. Maybe someone understands this scenario. I don't.
  12. No, you aren't missing anything. I stand corrected. With that then, I have to wonder why add MORE to 1/2 credit when BJU Lit is 1/2 credit on it's own, and EIW and R&S make up the other 1/2 credit. More for the sake of more? Okay, now I'm confused on that.
  13. This is exactly my point as well in red. It just gets all lost in the shuffle. I also agree that tthe connections aren't always being made by the assignments. Parental involvement is key, but then I can't possibly read all this and make the connections too. Scanning doesn't cut it for the older levels. It just requires more thought than that and I don't see that written into the guide at this point. Now I can fix and tweak, but then the load takes over. I too love the books. Some spines not so much, but overall the books are definitely a hit.
  14. This is a great post, Wildwood, because it shows the progression and it's wonderful that you shared it. It also is a great reminder as we go through the guides, because sometimes we lose sight of it all. Having gone through MTMM, and looking back, everything has been relatively lateral from CTC through MTMM. I really, really enjoyed MTMM, but in all honesty, I think I could skipped to it or at least one guide between CTC and MTMM. There has been a lot of writing taught, although scattered concepts wise. I understand the reasoning to switch programs, but the amount of changes, make it so that it's been difficult to build up or perfect the writing utilizing those skills. I'm not sure, unless you know to do so, that most of these lessons have really been applied. So we learn them then put them aside. We can assume that the kids will apply them, but you will need to do that as a parent and make sure it's done. Let's not forget the Narration List in the back of the book that may hit upon descriptors or closing sentences, or opinion, but there's a disconnect there in expectations (or modeling) of what is expected. If you look at the CM writing samples, which I would really urge you to do, there's something missing, either in the application, the narration checklist, or using the correct terms learned from writing program to application. Something. I think some CM modeling would have been extremely helpful to have in the appendix, to see expectations. Application is key and I guess I haven't seen that. I've seen longer narrations, but no thoughts, no utilization. I don't feel that HOD did anything randomly either. But WG's lit outside of BJU Lit choice is simply doing basic oral and written narrations. I don't find that another 1/2 credit worthy of a Lit class. It just seems to miss the mark. I don't find writing something you found interesting or useful for the sake of it, useful at 9th grade. I just think the time spent, doing some of those elementary narrations or copywork, that are being done on a weekly, sometimes daily basis are not the best use of hs time, but taking away from going deeper with thought through better written assignments.
  15. Did anyone use the teaching DVD with this program? What did you think about it? How long is it and does it teach or how does it work? How is it scheduled?
  16. The problem is you're learning things you should be applying, IMO. Granted, it says grade 10. But 9 is almost the same if you look at the S&S of EIW. The second issue is that what has already been taught regarding essays, which has been little has not been used. I guess I have a problem with learning the essay in 9th when we should be doing essays and perfecting them. Edited to add: I guess time will tell. Since the guides aren't written, we don't know how much will be utilized across the board until we actually see it.
  17. This is great stuff! Thanks, Lori!
  18. I'm glad you didn't keep silent. I think it's important that we are weighing opinions. And not all go to college, and not all need to be rigorous, I'm thinking we're not being taught or should I say utilized what is being taught in writing/grammar and the thought process is lateral. I agree writing has matured and it should mature, but the question is, is it maturing at a rate that it should be for the levels? Sentence structure, organization are important, as is communicating what is being read on a level that is understood by the student. I find the oral narrations and the written narrations important for understanding. As you mentioned, "the summary narration, using only six sentences is really outlining" of sorts, yes, as CM doesn't use the "structured" teachings of an essay or research, but does it by "narrations." So in that sense, a long narration could be an "essay". But here is where my problem lies. At 13 you are and at 14 we are still summarizing the reading. Sentence structure and organization should be a given at this point. It should be a given at the 6th grade level, not going into 9th. I don't find long narrations vs short narrations, or summaries, or a 5-7 sentence summary to be worthy of grade 8, much less just a longer one for grade 9, or an oral narration that is 5 minutes vs basic. This is still all summarizing and it's simply longer or shorter. High school is time to apply what we learned through more challenging thought. MTMM just began note-taking in week 20-something. This should have been not started here but completed and being utilized already. But I don't see the more challenging thought, the research, needed opinions, compare/contrast, teaching (or asking for it) in the narrations. I agree narrations are definitely a skill and certainly beats (IMO) comprehension questions. To me though, they are an understanding of the material, but it's time to start having opinions, persuasion, "essays". Essays actually have a beginning and topic sentence in every paragraph (n a 5-sentence narration), the last being a concluding sentence or wrap up. Not just a summary. I think they delve a tad deeper than a "summary". Per CM, narrations in grade 4-6 are to consist of continuing narrations and adding to them and expository. Being able to give a clear and accurate explanation of how something works. I haven't seen this used on anything and if so, unmemorable. Per CM, narrations in grade 7-9 are to continue narrative and expository and add - descriptive, asking the student to describe something usually progressing from large scope to smaller details. Examples are:(from CM) 1)Describe the founding of Christ's Kingdom. 2)Explain [key phrase from historical event] and give an account of [unrelated historical event read about]. 3)Describe a geographical journey [in area read about]. 4)Give a diagram of [body part studied], and explain how [it works]. 5)Discuss [modern political person's] scheme. How is it working?, 6) Write an essay on [current event], showing what some of the difficulties have been and what has been achieved. Those are some examples. They've been elementary at best and nil in the course of any assigned narration. Looking at the examples of what CM has in her appendices, CM went deep with less, rather than topical with more. These children wrote more than summaries. To spend time on assigned copywork or dictation at this level is absurd, as is (in MTMM) finding that blurb that interests the student. I think we're way past that. I haven't seen any skills utilized in the guides' teachings of persuasive essays, or any essays, outlining, or note-taking across the board, but only in the grammar or writing lesson itself. It's taught, and forgotten and we continue with summary narrations of varying length. So while skills maybe transferring and getting better, the ante isn't being upped so-to-speak.
  19. Bummer, I was hoping for info in EIW since it's not blowing my skirt up. I agree fully with this statement. I feel like now we can't get up to par with writing and expectations in this sense, because we've only added more work load instead of more thought. In WG, I'm still seeing page numbers given for information instead of having the student find it. :crying: I'm not seeing the assignments concentrate on thinking things through outside of a basic narration, because it's simply more. I didn't see it in the WH sample either, but I know there's more to a program than a sample. According to CM methods, the increase in difficulty is just not there, but simply on a very elementary basis. I think CTC through MTMM is lateral, except in workload. And then even WG isn't giving us the level of writing needed. I have to say I never, ever understood how much people thought the guides jumped. It doesn't jump in skill. It jumps only in the amount of work. The writing, other than making a basic narration longer or timed, isn't increasing in difficulty. I'd say for those who are reading this, read up on CM narrations. They are far from what the expectations are in HOD. I see the WG guide as being about 6-7th grade level writing. So if you love HOD, then tweak the writing to be on level. I thought I was missing something. Turns out I'm right. :crying:
  20. What would a typical 9th grade look like if you followed SWB's writing/grammar. She has WWS and R&S (7-10 for high school). How much is the writing credit, one credit would be for R&S, what would the rest look like?
  21. I understand that narrations are a different thought process and have their place, but we're not moving on from them in the way CM mentions in her books. What an elementary student put out in her examples isn't what HOD is doing since the narrations aren't choosing anything to persuade or to research as mentioned in the books. Again, they're just beginning in WG, but barely and on an elementary level.
  22. I always thought the "busywork" that people were talking about were just the activites, but it's the AMOUNT of things as a total. It allows for no depth and no time taken to really write about it or think about it. Books though, are usually a hit, except some spines.
  23. I always found CTC to be more, not more difficult. I feel like the rest through MTMM has been lateral in thought, but much more in load. I've always scratched my head on why you couldn't jump to a guide and skip one, already having done those guides since they are so lateral. I too like the weaving, but I also want some depth and it continues to be topical in lieu of more load.
  24. Okay, this is exactly what I am seeing. I have been waiting since CTC to see an increase in thought and writing, and it's just not there. It's just simply more work or lateral moves. The lack of cohesive writing programs I see have been detrimental. As you mentioned with K12, we should have been learning different essays and research papers in the middle school guides and utilizing that knowledge in WG and I see we're just beginning that stage in WG. The narrations are changing in a minor way, but nothing like a true research paper or an essay. There's no "persuasive" or compare and contrast. I believe the latter is in the Religions & Culture study, but from what I see with that, it's an elementary level. Some of the boxes aren't cohesive in that the set up makes no sense. Certain resources that are the same (same book) are scattered in different boxes. That's has nothing to do with rigor, but is frustrating to read. But I'm a format nut. This is what I'm seeing completely. Now I don't know how to get up to speed with writing AND keep in line with credits needed. If I try to make this program into what I feel it should be something has to be dropped and since it's so integrated, I can't imagine how that'll work. Tidbits, did you use EIW? I heard it was very incremental, but sporatic in the days used, so it was disconnected. But I even so I still see that the grammar principals aren't utilized across the board. It still contains basic narrations and summaries as we learned years ago.
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