the workbook, level 4

So sorry, I'm using Writing With Ease Level 4 - the workbook

Thank you for posting the videos so I don't have to dig for them! I'll watch them when I have some time. It really chaps me that the directions say to "read it 3 times," so if I read it more times (and I do!), I feel like I'm cheating and that my child is not really doing it right! I really wish the directions would say "repeat it as many times as it takes for the child to get it."

WWE - the first book! (4th grade suggested level)

I am using WWE with my 11 year old son (5th grade). I'm in week 22 of the book. It is a disaster. He cannot hold the words in his head for the dictation. He cries & flips out with frustration, throwing pencils on the floor and crumbling into a mess. I end up dictating 4-3 words at a time to him. I'm trying so hard to stick with it, but even if we do somehow manage to "get through a lesson," I feel like the stress of it is NOT helping him learn to write. It is making him mad, frustrating him, and in turn, frustrating me as well. I like the reasoning behind this curriculum, but I don't think it is going to work here, even if I stick with it. Not all days are a disaster, but more are than aren't. Any advice?

I wonder...has anyone else ever stopped homeschooling because their 11-yo son and 13-yo daughter bicker ALL. DAY. LONG.? I'm all for the "this is a stage" and "they really do actually love each other" and "the weather is getting bad" and "that's normal" and "we've just been together too long" arguments, but I'm really starting to believe (the lie) that putting them in school would be better for their relationship in the long AND short run! Thanks for listening to me vent, cyberworld.

I posted this question yesterday, and at that time, did not realize that there is a gifted board here in the forums. So I will ask a "different crowd." :) I would like to have my children tested for giftedness. I am almost certain that both of them are gifted, but they are, of course, so different and each have very different strengths and weaknesses. They've always been homeschooled. I have no idea where to start to have them tested - any ideas? Should we do an IQ test? Not sure what the standard procedure is, if there even is one.

Quark, what kind of test did your child take? My child HATES arts & crafts - always has, even in the preschool class at church. When I would pick him up after class, he would be the only 4 or 5 year old that said he wasn't interested in doing the craft. And he HATES to be timed on anything. It stressed him out. He is so bright and emotionally deep! Also, we're trying to get through Writing With Ease and he is doing pretty badly in that. He swears he can't remember the dictation. God has made him into a wonderful person, but I feel like I'm not doing him justice when it comes to schoolwork.

Ruth, You had your child's IQ tested, correct? How did you go about doing this? Who should I contact? Thank you.

Jackie, Did you have your child tested? If so, what kind of test? I have no idea where to start.

Good point. I'm not sure how it would "help" me except to maybe just confirm my suspicions and change curriculum, for sure. Part of me thinks he has issues with focusing & sitting still (and I often wonder how he would do in a classroom all day if he had to) and the other part of me just wants to give him more room to allow him to do whatever it takes to just "be his wiggly self." That second part of me wants to just overlook the silliness, let him be a kid & not get stressed out about it. He will do schoolwork, but it takes a lot of verbal wrangling (ahem, threatening, whatever). It is obvious that he would rather be doing anything else than sitting down, and focusing on what I'd like for him to do. But he CAN focus on whatever he wants to focus on. It's not like he can't focus - if he's "into" it, he can sit there and quietly work on it for long periods of time. And part of me thinks it's a discipline/obedience issue, that he is playing me during the school day and wasting all kinds of time to see if he can get away with it. In that case, I believe the problem would be ME, b/c I have allowed this to go on in the past. Oh heck, I don't know. This parenting thing is hard sometimes.

We've always homeschooled - this is our 8th year. I have a gut feeling that my kids are gifted. They have always done well on standardized tests. They are very sharp, creative and intense. They are continually blowing us away at the things they do and say. Can someone give me some advice on where I would go/how I would go about having them tested? I've spent some time on the Gifted Homeschoolers Forum (lots of good resources there). I just want them to take a test or something to either prove or disprove what I feel is true. Part of what is fueling my question is that I am butting heads with my 11 yo boy everyday. He is so bright! He hates doing schoolwork! He wants to go play Lego and make paper guns (which are very elaborate and impressive, by the way). Now, I know that he is probably typical and has a lot in common with many, many 11 yo boys. I think he is bored with our homeschool! I would like to challenge him more, in ways that are stretching and exciting for him. But I'm just too tired by the end of the day to figure it all out. Any advice?????

I have a 12-yo (almost 13) dd. I believe I've read (somewhere?) that while kids are going through puberty, they temporarily get "dumber." Has anyone else read this, or am I going nuts? I believe I read that there is so much going on in the body that they actually seem dumber, temporarily. I feel like my dd is (hopefully temporarily - but who knows) turning into an airhead. I'm so frustrated. There is no retention and she has an unteachable heart. I know that some of it is the condition of her heart, but I wonder how much of it is related to puberty. Does anyone else have some evidence of what I think I read or can you at least offer me some hope?

Just know that you're not alone in feeling this way. I get this feeling, too, sometimes. Personally, I think it's spiritual warfare (these panicky thoughts). I talk to my husband about it and then I reassure myself that all will be fine. This parenting thing is not easy!

I grew up in TX, so I knew! Plus my cousin's b-day fell on Juneteenth, so it was brought up a lot.

From this website, http://www.homeschoolwithsaxon.com/index.php , I came across this article about Saxon sequencing. Down towards the bottom it talks about the different editions. April 2012 WHICH SAXON MATH BOOK FOLLOWS MATH 76? HOW CAN STUDENTS OVERCOME THEIR DIFFICULTY WITH ALGEBRA? When John Saxon published his original series of math textbooks, they were designed to be taken in order from Math 54 to Math 65, followed by Math 76, then Math 87, then Algebra 1/2, then on to Algebra 1, then Algebra 2, followed by Advanced Mathematics (which, coupled with Algebra 2, gave the high school geometry and trigonometry credits) culminating with the calculus textbook for some students. The books were not originally intended to be "grade" oriented textbooks, but were intended to be taken in sequential order based upon a student's knowledge and capabilities without regard to the student's grade level. But schools and homeschool educators quickly assigned Math 54 to the fourth grade level, Math 65 to the fifth grade level, Math 76 to the sixth grade, and Math 87 to the seventh grade level to be followed by the pre-algebra course titled Algebra 1/2. When the new third edition of Math 76 came out in the summer of 1997, it was much stronger academically than its predecessor, the older second edition textbook. It did not take long for confusion to develop around which textbooks were now the correct editions to be used and what the correct sequencing would be. In the thousands of telephone calls I received over the years I served as Saxon Publishers' Homeschool Curriculum Director for Math 76 through calculus, the question that arose most often among classroom teachers as well as Homeschool educators was whether the student should go from the new stronger Math 76 book to Math 87 or to Algebra as both the Math 87 and the Algebra 1/2 textbooks appeared to contain basically the same material. Adding to the confusion, after John Saxon's death, was the fact that the new soft cover third edition of Math 87 had the title changed to read Math 8/7 'with pre-algebra.' So what Saxon math book does a student who has completed Math 76 use? Well, that depends upon how well the student did in the Math 76 book. The key word is "successfully completed," not just "completed" Math 76. If a student completed the entirety of the Math 76 textbook and his last five tests in that book were eighty or better, he would have "successfully completed" Math 76 and he could move on to the Algebra 1/2 book. However, if the student's last five test grades were all less than seventy-five, that student has indicated that he will in all likelihood experience difficulty in the Algebra 1/2 materials and should therefore proceed first through the Math 87 textbook. While both the Math 87 and the Algebra textbooks will get the student ready for the Algebra 1 course, the Math 87 book starts off a bit slower with more review, allowing the student to "catch up." The student who then moves successfully through the Math 87 textbook, receiving eighties or better on the last five tests, can then skip the Algebra 1/2 book and move directly to the Algebra 1 textbook. However, if the student finishes the Math 87 book and the last five test grades reflect difficulty with the material, that student should then be moved into the Algebra 1/2 book to receive another - but different - look at "pre-algebra" before attempting the Algebra 1 course. Students fail algebra because they do not understand fractions, decimals and percents; they fail calculus because they do not understand the basics of algebra. Attempting to "fast track" a student who had weak Math 76 test scores - into Algebra 1/2 - then on to Algebra 1, will most certainly result in frustration if not failure in either Algebra 1/2, or Algebra 1. So what have we been talking about? If the students have to take all three courses (Math 76, Math 87 and Algebra 1/2), how will they ever get through algebra 1? When I taught Saxon math in a public high school, we established three math tracks for the students. Fast, Average, and Slower math tracks to accommodate the difference in learning styles and backgrounds of the students. Listed below are the recommended three math tracks. Please note there are no grade levels associated with these courses, but Math 76 was generally taught in the 6th grade at the middle school. The course titled "Introduction to Algebra 2" was the student's first attempt at the Algebra 2 course which resulted in low test scores, so the course was titled as an "Introduction to Algebra 2" on the student's transcript and the student repeated the entirety of the same book the following year. Over ninety-five percent of all these students received an "A" or "B" their second year through the Algebra 2 course. In the ten years we used the system, I only had one student who received a "D" in the course and he did so because he did little or no studying the second year and still passed the course with a 65 percent test average. I will make you the same promise I made to the parents of my former students. If students can accomplish no more than "mastering" John Saxon's Algebra 2 course by the time they are seniors in high school, they will pass any collegiate freshman algebra course from MIT to Stanford (provided they go to class). Remember, they can still take calculus at the university if they have changed their mind and need the course in their new major field of study. And because they now have a strong algebra background, they will be successful! FAST MATH TRACK: Math 76 - Algebra 1/2 - Algebra 1 - Algebra 2 - Geometry with Advanced Algebra - Trigonometry and Pre-Calculus - Calculus. NOTE: The Saxon Advanced Mathematics textbook was used over a two year period allowing the above underlined two full math credits after completing Saxon Algebra 2. (TOTAL High School Math Credits: 5) AVERAGE MATH TRACK: Math 76 - Math 87 - Algebra 1/2 - Algebra 1 - Algebra 2 - Geometry with Advanced Algebra - Trigonometry and Pre-Calculus. (TOTAL High School Math Credits: 4) SLOWER MATH TRACK: Math 76 - Math 87 - Algebra 1/2 - Algebra 1 - Introduction to Algebra 2 - Algebra 2 - Geometry with Advanced Algebra. (TOTAL High School Math Credits: 4) NOTE 1: YOU SHOULD USE THE FOLLOWING EDITIONS AS THEY ARE ACADEMICALLY STRONGER THAN THE EARLIER EDITIONS ARE, AND MIXING THE OLDER EDITIONS WITH THE NEWER EDITIONS WILL RESULT IN FRUSTRATION OR FAILURE FOR THE STUDENT. Math 76: Either the hardback 3rd Ed or the new soft cover 4th Ed. (The Math content of both editions is the same) Math 87: Either the hardback 2nd Ed or the new soft cover 3rd Ed. (The Math content of both editions is the same) Algebra 1/2: Use only the 3rd Edition. (Book has the lesson reference numbers added) Algebra 1: Use only the 3rd Edition. (Book has the lesson reference numbers added) Algebra 2: Use either the 2nd or 3rd Editions. (Content is identical. Lesson reference numbers added to the 3rd Ed) Advanced Mathematics: Use only the 2nd Edition: (Lesson reference numbers are found in the solutions manual, not in the textbook) Calculus: Either the 1st or 2nd Edition will work. However, if the student uses my DVD tutorials, they will need the 2nd Edition textbook. NOTE 2: WHEN RECORDING COURSE TITLES ON TRANSCRIPTS, USE THE FOLLOWING TITLES: Math 76: Record "Sixth Grade Math." Math 87: Record "Pre-Algebra."(If student must also take Algebra 1/2, then use "Seventh Grade Math") Algebra 1/2: Record "Pre-Algebra." Algebra 1 & Algebra 2: Self explanatory. Advanced Mathematics: Record "Geometry with Advanced Algebra" (1 credit) if they only complete the first 60 - 70 lessons of that textbook. Record "Trigonometry and Pre-calculus" (1 credit) if they have completed the entirety of the Advanced mathematics textbook. Under no circumstances should you record the title "Advanced Mathematics" on the student's transcript as the colleges and universities will not know what math this course contains, and they will ask you for a syllabus for the course. Calculus: Self explanatory. Each child is unique and what works for one will not always work for another. Whatever track you use, you must decide early to allow students sufficient time to overcome any hurdles they might encounter in their math journey before they take the ACT or SAT. If you have any questions, please feel free to email me at art.reed@usingsaxon.com or call me at (580) 234-0064 (CST) and leave your telephone number and a brief message and I will return your call.

I'm poking around on this high school board (I have a middle schooler) and I'm wondering - what is the typical goal for number of volunteer hours? This was not even on my radar at all...the thought that my child would need to have volunteer hours logged. This something that you all knew about from reading...what? Previous experience of filling out college apps? Thanks - sorry to be an annoyance. I just seriously want to know these things ahead of time! Thank you.

We're going to see a Detroit Tigers game on Wed, July 31 -- planning everything around that. Any other recommendations would be wonderful! We plan to spend 2-3 nights in Detroit. Active grandparents coming with us. We have two energetic kids, ages 12 & 10. We're adventurous, love being outdoors & seeing things off the beaten path. Restaurant (reasonably prices) recommendations welcome, too!

Has anyone been there? Planning a visit to Detroit in July. Looking to see if anyone has been there, recommends it, and can recommend what to do there - the museum/village combo, etc.

Anyone have any experience with this book with a 7th grader? Yay or Nay?

Thanks, all. Very encouraging. My kids are dwaddling. It's making our school days way too long & tedious. I'm going to have to sit with each one at different parts of the day to keep them on task. I do love Saxon and I'm sticking with it. But it's driving me nuts that they start with it first thing in the morning and they finish it right before lunch!!!! Torture!!!!!

That is what I was planning on doing, too - taking the course with her. Glad to hear you both benefited from it. I wonder how many homeschoolers actually do a formal logic course.

It sounds like this is just you and the kids adjusting to homeschooling and learning the ropes, rather than a problem with Saxon itself. :001_smile: This is funny - we have been homeschooling for 7 years now. (They've never been in a classroom!) I love the results I am seeing with Saxon this year. My kids did MUCH better on the Stanford tests this year as a result of working hard with Saxon. But, they take so LONG to do it.

Thinking of buying this DVD course from Memoria Press for my 7th grader next fall...anyone have any experience with it? I watched the sample lesson video and it seemed really....hard!

I'm growing weary of my 12-yo & 10-yo taking hours and hours to complete their Saxon math each day. It usually takes a LOT of prodding & riding and 3-4 hours for my daughter to complete a lesson. It is driving me nuts. She's on lesson 101 of book 7/6. This is our first year doing Saxon. My 10-yo son, he is more mathy than my dd, but he has trouble focusing and it can easily take him 2-3 hours to complete a lesson. It makes the entire school day drag on.