Amen to that! I had the opportunity to do some observations at a classical school last fall, and I was very impressed with the careful, slow reading method used by the teachers, along with Socratic questioning and careful explanations. When we did Omnibus at home, we basically used this same technique, although probably not as skillfully. Yes, this is such a great method of teaching! Someone else did mention the Odds Bodkin version of The Odyssey, and it sounds like it would be fun. However, I think instead that I'm going to incorporate a session or two with the audiobook version of the text (trans. by Fagles) with Ian McKellen as the narrator. It's an exact reading of the original text, and I have to make accommodations for ELLs (English language learners). I do appreciate the suggestion, Nan! :)

Jane, I think this would be a fascinating addition to the unit! I'll definitely keep this in mind as I write my unit study. I had planned on incorporating a short lesson or two about basic scientific information about terms encountered in The Odyssey with which students might not be familiar. For example, there was one book (can't remember which one) that referenced some of the constellations, and there are numerous references to flora and fauna throughout the books which I would be teaching (Books 5 through 13). Sadly, many students never look at the stars, and many students might not also be familiar with some of the trees, flowers, etc., that are mentioned. The unit study is supposed to be about 4-6 weeks' worth of lessons, so I'm not sure how long your idea would take. I will definitely look up Sobel's book and see if it might work. Right now I have about 3 weeks devoted to an introduction, artwork of the heroic, heroic speeches, and poetry of the heroic. I'm guessing teaching The Odyssey itself might also take 3 weeks, so I may be bumping up against my time limits. That's one of the beauty of homeschooling; a parent or student can keep pursuing the subject with passion because of the inherent flexibility! :) Thank you for your great suggestion, however! I have copied and pasted the responses to one of my Word documents. :)

Thank you, Kalmia! I will check these out at our library. :)

One of the sections for my unit study on the heroic is to have students do a rhetorical analysis of 4-5 speeches: "I Have a Dream" - Martin Luther King, Jr. JFK's Inaugural Address "Give Me Liberty or Give Me Death!" - Patrick Henry's Address to the House of Burgesses Lincoln's Gettysburg Address I have been searching for a good outline which would help students analyze the rhetoric and rhetorical effects of these speeches (i.e., use of alliteration, anaphora, etc.) It would be nice to introduce them to aspects of classical thinking, i.e., logos, pathos, and ethos. Any ideas? I need to adapt and change any sources which are available for the purposes of this study, but am looking for a decent outline or possibly rubric. Any help appreciated!

Jane, you always raise such interesting questions! I've been absent again, but needed to post another question for my unit study. I'm not sure what STEM stands for, so it's obvious that I've been out of the loop with things here. Yes, I've wondered the same thing myself. Now, perhaps this is just me and my own perfectionistic tendencies, but I have found it very difficult to write quality essays for my literature classes. Yes, I have to read the material over at least 2-3 times, and then again as I'm constructing my essay. Sometimes I find that formulating my thesis is almost like giving birth (forgive the awkward analogy). Very few of my papers have been short, and I frequently have to have my husband or my oldest daughter read my papers or talk through them with me so that I can clearly develop the thesis. No, I don't think that a quality education in the humanities is necessarily easy. Not being a math or science-minded individual, I can't really compare the two. However, I would contend that a humanities major must be as logical as the math or science major. Forget that nonsense that the humanities are all about "feelings." Reading and writing about literature means being able to discern the author's argument or thesis or points and being able to explicate those points clearly and with persuasion. My oldest daughter is currently taking three literature classes--one of them Shakespeare--and the teacher for the Shakespeare class is also her lit. teacher for another class. She's finding this a real challenge. For me, I'd have to say that my Latin courses were the most difficult by far. As soon as my present coursework is done, I plan on diving further into the humanities by getting a master's in English lit (hopefully with a focus on Shakespeare) and taking more Latin classes.

I can absolutely guarantee you that certification to teach is no proof of competency in any given situation. Somehow, people have managed to teach their children long before there were public schools or experts. For example, the literacy rate in colonial America was extremely high, and yet The Federalist Papers and The Anti-Federalist Papers were essays published in newspapers--read by the average citizen. By today's standards, these texts are very dense reading. Yet many members of the reading public at this point in time were educated at home. In my spare time--which is minimal these days--I'm reading a book by Richard Mitchell called The Graves of Academe. The author, a professor of English (and also the classics) makes some excellent arguments about teacher's education programs and competency.

I would have to disagree. I have known professionals (i.e., lawyers and doctors), who eventually make much more than teachers, taking years to pay off student loans. There is no way I would accumulate that kind of debt, especially in this economy when there are better, more economical options. In my previous post, I mentioned a fellow student who has accumulated a huge amount of debt and is no longer even in the program. I believe he is now headed in a different direction at the school--hopefully eventually more lucrative than teaching--but he will still have that debt load to pay off. In a recent discussion with high school students, some of the students had the mistaken belief that, if worse comes to worse, they can forego paying off student loans or that they can eventually "just declare bankruptcy" (their words). Granted, these are high school students. In this discussion, I reminded them that student loans are not dischargeable in bankruptcy court, which means that they must be paid off, even if one declares bankruptcy. We have several very good schools in our state. Two of them offer top-notch teacher's education programs: one with price tag of about $50K (full-time, day school) per year, and one with a price tag of about $14K per year. Obviously, most would choose the option of $14K per year. My daughter is majoring in English education at the less expensive school, and its education department is ranked much higher than the pricier school. I am at the other school, mostly because--for my purposes--its certification program is more flexible and ultimately less expensive. I understand the lure of graduating from a top-notch university and understand that sometimes that can open doors. However, I believe that decision should be made long in advance, through careful savings on the part of the parent and student, scholarships, and discussions between parents and students about the amount of debt that a student can reasonably accumulate and pay off after graduation.

I would agree with the thoughts of others who have posted: If the price tag is for a four-year education, then that might be worth the price tag. If it's per year, and especially if you have to accrue debt, then I would say not. I am currently in a graduate certificate degree in English education at a rather pricey school. I should mention that I also have no debt, since I do not have to take a great number of courses at this institution. I had a conversation with a fellow student about a year ago, who had funded his entire college education through student loans at the initial cost you mentioned (per year, in his case). He too was planning on becoming a school teacher. What is especially tragic in his situation is that he is no longer in the program. I would also encourage your daughter to look into the philosophy of education espoused by this school. My past years of homeschooling, plus my own readings and convictions on the matter, have so strongly influenced my philosophy of education that I am quite at odds with the program. However, I am committed to finishing the course before me and am hoping that my teaching futures lies in a direction which I can more fully embrace. If you want more information, please feel free to send me a PM.

Ester--as usual, your suggestions are excellent, and of the ones you mentioned, I had planned on incorporating artwork; in fact, it would be great to incorporate some classic art work. I also love the suggestion of Dante meeting Odysseus in the Inferno--was he really that heroic? Character traits related to the heroic will definitely be part of what I will incorporate. I'll send you a PM on the rest of my thoughts, OK? I went back and edited some of my original comments, as I have learned in the past that some of the threads from TWTM forums can show up on a general Google search.

These are all great ideas and would undoubtedly be along the lines of what my instrctor is looking for! Thank you!

Thank you, MBM! I noticed that one of the items mentioned "Hollywood's Idea/Version of the Hero." Jane, this might be a good way to explain to students the excellent point that you made re: comic book/superhero movies. Some questions which I could bring out of that would be: Is this comic book/Hollywood ideal for a hero worth our consideration? Is this model for a hero worth emulating? Thanks, everyone. Keep the feedback coming; this has been a tremendous help.

Thank you! That would be great. I'm also going to look up the National Geographic article on Shackleton; hopefully they'll have back articles available online. :)

Thank you! I will look this up. Perhaps I wouldn't have to use the entire article; just a segment of it. I'll check it out! I had to chuckle reading this. I've had some of the same thoughts about Odysseus. Yes, a hero of the Trojan War--which is covered more in The Iliad, but also quite flawed in many ways. I keep thinking of Book V, when Odysseus is trapped by Calypso for seven years on the Island of Ogygia. He misses his family terribly, but seems to be quite willing to spend time with Calypso at night.

I agree with this. Unfortunately, many students simply do not do the readings, so I will have to make some kind of a study guide/reading guide to accompany each chapter. LOL. I will always picture Odysseus as Armand Assante. Yes, that would be a good movie for kids, too. MBM, I'm not familiar with this movie. Is it just called "The Odyssey"? I should look this up. But again, the teacher wants me to focus on the "essential question"--which is the concept of the hero or the heroic, not the main text.

Not harsh at all. In fact, I agree with you that this may be one motivation. I believe that I could probably find a way to phrase your thoughts in such a way that would prod this question with students, i.e., "Does the proliferation of comic book heroes and movies show a tendency in our culture to search for heroes, or does this show a lack of maturity? Explain your answer." Frankly, I think that's a fair way to phrase the question. I think the teacher is wanting us to incorporate a number of questions into this unit, so these are completely fair questions. I like your suggestion about checking our National Geographic or the New Yorker. I know the story about Aron Ralston has been well-publicized, and the story of Shackleton is probably well-known to those on this forum but perhaps not to younger high school students. If I could find either of those in a different format, i.e., a short article, that would be one way of introducing two more genres: news/magazine article, plus non-fiction.

Hi Jane! :seeya: It's good to see you again, too! Boy, have I had a busy summer and autumn--and it's only going to get worse! I feel like I'm climbing a very high mountain! I had definitely considered using "Oh Brother, Where Art Thou" in this unit study; so far I've never been disappointed by the genius of the Coen brothers! However, when I mentioned this film to my instructor, she noted that she wants me to remain focused on the "essential question" of the heroic, not The Odyssey. One of the emphases of this program is the idea of teaching diverse learners and tiered texts--which TWTM uses all the time. All you have to do is read the end of each chapter of TWTM to see that SWB has listed a huge amount of resources which are, in essence, "tiered." In other words, I have a beautiful DK version of The Odyssey which we read when the girls were younger; as they got older, they were familiar with the plot when we read the real version (Lattimore's translation). Personally, I believe I can justify showing "Oh Brother, Where Art Thou" with the students, at least, by showing them that this is, indeed, a "tiered text." I may discuss this with the teacher again, because I agree with you, and I can't quite let go of it. That is one of my favorite movies, and the music is phenomenal. Some other ideas I had were to probe the students with some of the following questions, i.e., in the past 10 years or so, why has there been such a proliferation of super-hero movies? Off the top of my head, there have been 2-3 Batman movies, the 3 Spiderman movies, Captain America, and with Disney-Pixar, The Incredibles. What is it about the "hero" that continues to inspire us? Does being "heroic" imply being without fear? Who are the "everyday heroes" around us? Are heroes perfect, or can they have flaws? Some of the answers to these questions are obvious to you and me, but perhaps not to students. I'd love to incorporate some non-fiction texts, but since we're only supposed to cover one major work for the unit, I thought I'd wrap this around The Odyssey. Some works I'd considered were Between a Rock and a Hard Place by Aron Ralston (the movie "127 Hours" was based on this book) and the Endurance expedition with Sir Ernest Shackleton. If I can find a shortened version of those texts, i.e., a short essay/story, that might work, too. Non-fiction is encouraged.

Thanks for the reminder about Joseph Campbell! I was just thinking this morning that I should incorporate the idea of the hero's journey in this unit. Thanks!

Due to my insane schedule, I've been absent for a while. For my certification program, I am writing a unit study on The Odyssey. The unit study must be constructed around what the department calls an essential or enduring question. My EQ will revolve around the concept of heroism, i.e., what is a hero? what character qualities define a hero? how has the concept of the hero or heroism changed over time? I must gear this towards p.s. I must include at least 3 genres (i.e., novel, short-story, poetry, drama, art, music, essays, non-fiction, etc.) and make accommodations for ELLs (English-language learners). The study must also include some interdisciplinary activity, which shouldn't be difficult for WTMers. I'll be using Fagle's translation and will cover only Chapters 5-13, which deal with the highlights of Odysseus's travels. This is what I've mapped out in my mind so far: 1. Intro. to the text by giving background info. on The Iliad and the preceding chapters of The Odyssey, as well as some information on the contest between Odysseus and the suitors. (In my own approach, I would teach The Iliad and The Odyssey together.) 2. Having students map O's journey, locating key places and placing key characters on the map (i.e., Odysseus and Calypso placed together on the Island of Ogygia). 3. Having students create a character map, noting relationships between characters as well as the gods/goddesses who protect key characters (i.e., Athena protects Odysseus). 4. Having students create some kind of character map, poster--something along those lines--noting the gods/goddesses involved. 4. Since there are allusions in one of these chapters to some constellations, I thought about including some basic information on those constellations. This, plus the map activity, would give a nod towards the interdisciplinary activities. 5. Poetry: poems dealing with the topic of heroism. 6. Essays and speeches, i.e., MLK's "I have a dream" speech and "Letter from a Birmingham Jail" 7. Photo/art introduction/art walk to the unit, i.e., photos from heroes of 9/11, pictures from heroes of the past. 8. A graphic novel of The Odyssey. This would introduce the idea of tiered texts and be considered as an aide for ELL students, struggling learners, and students who are visual learners. 9. Vocabulary development and study guides for each chapter. 10. A final essay; topic and length still undecided. Note: This is still somewhat sketchy, and I would like to add that I'm certainly not asking anyone to write this for me! This is a project required for my current educational program and must be geared towards p.s. Any ideas, suggestions, texts, etc., welcome!

We did most of our 4th of July celebration a day early--yesterday. We read the Declaration aloud and had a barbeque. Happy 4th of July, everyone! :patriot: :patriot:

The University of Georgia-Athens has probably the best online Latin courses available, according to two Latin teachers with whom I've exchanged e-mails. However, for the first year of Latin you would be using the standard Wheelock's Latin textbook, plus some additional materials. Unless they've added courses, you cannot get a full degree in Classics. If you take their online Latin courses, you can expect to spend at least several hours of study a day in order to fully learn the grammar and vocabulary. Here's the main website for the Georgia IDL. Here's the site for the Latin coursework. These online courses are excellent, but rigorous. Dr. LaFleur teaches the first semester. HTH!

I second this suggestion! Both dh and I have listened to this entire series, and Professor Greenberg is one of the most engaging teachers we've ever heard. Since the series is organized chronologically, it would be relatively easy to write your lesson plans to correspond with the time periods suggested in The Well-Trained Mind. Fabulous! Note: You might be spending quite a bit of time during the Baroque/Classical/Romantic era, so you might have to pick and choose among your selections. Also, I was just checking Beautiful Feet books--they have a history of science component, but unfortunately it looks like it's for the grammar stage. I don't have the 3rd edition of The Well-Trained Mind, but I know that the 2nd edition has a tremendous list of books to read. See pp. 540-541, along with Susan's sample schedule on pp. 544-546. In the first pages noted (540-541) she notes three books per year, corresponding to that time period. That seems very do-able.

:iagree: Henle is much less grammar-oriented than Wheelock's. Henle I is appropriate for about one year of high school Latin, but does not have nearly as much grammar nor vocabulary, for that matter. However, it may be more accessible for high school students and parents who have had no Latin background. From what I've read, completing all of First Form Latin may not be an equivalent substitute for Henle I. I'd do a search on these forums for discussions in that regard. Drew Campbell has written a new spoken Latin program for 3rd through 5th grade (approximately) called "I Speak Latin." You can order it here. But again, if you're looking for high school level Latin, then you'd perhaps want to look at Lingua Latina, if you're interested in a spoken Latin program. Bonam fortunam!

If I remember correctly, Dr. Benjamin Carson, the pediatric neurosurgeon at Johns Hopkins University (see his biography, Gifted Hands for full details) was a member of ROTC while he was in high school. His strong performance in ROTC enabled him to get a full scholarship to Yale, and from there he went on to medical school. Some of his notable surgeries include the separation of conjoined twins who were joined at the head; he also pioneered the hemispherectomy, which can help control seizures. I read this book years ago, and Dr. Carson is a model of achievement. So, my guess is that the ROTC can provide a solid open door for motivated young people.

Math was not my strong suit, either. :( However, when we were homeschooling, I found Chalkdust's ACT/SAT Math Review to be a big help for my girls. When we used it, the series of DVDs just covered the SAT math, but the series has apparently been revised to include ACT math as well. I believe that the math on the PSAT test is very similar to the format of the math section on the SAT. Here is the information on the cost of the series, ranging anywhere from $130 for the DVDs alone to $160 if you order the DVDs and the ACT/SAT review books. If this fits into your budget, I would highly recommend these. You could also check the For Sale boards to see if there are any used copies available. However, if you buy the set new, you are entitled to backup support (i.e., help with specific math problems, when needed) from Dana Moseley, the teacher. He is an excellent math teacher; his explanations are very clear. I hope this helps! Best wishes to you in your preparations!

Dd and I will both be on spring break at the same time. However, I have to get our taxes ready and do homework. Apparently my teachers didn't get the memo about spring break. :glare: Nevertheless, I'm going to make the most of it, watching favorite movies and playing plenty of card games with her. :) I'm definitely looking forward to the break from actual classes, however. Much more productive use of my time.