...the amount of teacher time needed seems to ramp up just as kids are wanting more independence. We've done MEP from 1b, and have just started 3a. The lesson plans have gone up to three-plus pages per day! Also, in addition to the workbook page, you now have to print out quite a few of the copymasters to complete the lesson. (Oh how I wish the workbook pages included it all!) But to top it all off, my ds is wanting to be a bit more independent now and the increase in one-on-one time in math is rubbing him all wrong. (He turned eight this summer and is starting 3rd grade.) What I love about MEP is the way it gets kids thinking about numbers. My ds loves the logic/number puzzles. I do wish it had a bit more drill, but we add that in ourselves. But between the time it's taking us and the need for more freedom, I think both of us are ready to move on to something else. So what would you recommend, dear internets? I want something with the conceptual learning of MEP, but more independent for ds. I'm looking for something spiral, since working on the same topic for days on end would lead to whining and forgetfulness. He would love something colorful or even computer based (but neither of these are requirements for me). I would love something all in one book so we aren't having to shuffle things all over the place (I'm looking at you, Singapore Math). Here are things I've used in the past: Singapore Math: We used this for 1A, and he could see the patterns in the answers without having to look at the problems. I don't know if this continues into higher levels, but I also hated all the books needed to teach it. Math Mammoth: We used 2A and B last year over the summer and then along with MEP. He did it on his own and only a page or so a day since it was our supplement. I find the books a bit dull, and I can already hear him whining about having to work on the same topic he worked on yesterday and the day before .... hence me leaning towards something spiral. CLE: My dd10 uses this. It works great for her. Ds would do fine in it, but it definitely doesn't have the challenging logic and word problems I'm looking for. Beast Academy: Both kids love to read the books but have never shown interested in working out the problems. This also has the same mastery approach that I think would drive ds bonkers. Things I've looked at after searching the forum: Horizons: I like the all-in-one and color and such, and I know that this is advanced as far as content, but I wasn't seeing any sort of logic or conceptual thinking problems in the samples. Teaching Textbooks: He would love this since it's on the computer and easy. He would for sure test into grade 4 in this. I would definitely supplement if we went this route. Also, it's on the pricey side. Math in Focus: I kind of like Singapore style, and this makes it more manageable. My OCD might force me to buy all the things, which would make this kind of expensive. But it does have the color to hold his interested and a bit more of the rigor I'd like to see. Mathematical Reasoning: This claims to be a complete curriculum, but the samples look light on repeated practice. Maybe something to pair with TT if we go that route?? Saxon: Good old Saxon. Definitely spiral, but maybe too much? I'd need to test him to see where he'd land in this. The lack of white space might be an issue. Does this have enough logic type things? Hard to tell from the samples. Those are the ones that stand out to me right now, but I want to make sure I've covered all my bases before making a choice. Please help me choose what direction to go! Feel free to suggest other options or comment on the ones I've looked at. Thank you for any help you can give!! (And for reading what apparently has become my first novel! Time to look for a publisher! :laugh:)

I got a letter from our charter school stating that the test this year is NOT adaptive, even though the final version will be. So my guess is the real test is going to be quite similar to the practice one. I'm glad I saw this thread and the link to the practice version so at least we won't be caught completely off guard.

Thank you all for your ideas! I will keep them all on hand for when I feel ready to tackle art again. I appreciate your support!

I just can't make it work. I have tried so many different methods/curricula, Meet the Masters, Mark Kistler, Artistic Pursuits, How to Teach Art to Children, and nothing seems to get done. Part of this is because I really don't care all too much to make it work since art doesn't seem as important as math or science or history, but I also haven't found something that covers art the way I think it should be done. I want a program with full page, full color artwork from the masters coupled with (easy yet meaningful) projects that follow the method of the masters. That was my beef with MTM and AP, the projects copied the picture but not the methods. I love Discovering Great Artists for the projects, but there's no original art! And to make it really perfect, it needs to be open and go, or even better, hand to the kids and let them have at it. I know I could piece my ideal together, but I don't want to. So for now, unless there is a project related to history that the kids are dying to do, art is just not going to happen. And honestly? It's a bit of a load off to admit this and be able to move on without the guilt.

Grr. Double post. :(

We did the Holiday class over the holidays, go figure :), and it was actually kind of a fail here. My kids' build got taken over by someone else. There were far too may people trying to build in one area, and it just looked like a mess. We could never even find where the group builds were taking place to participate in them. My kids played around a bit, but after a couple weeks I stopped telling them to do it. And since they weren't asking to do it, I wasn't going to push it. I agree that the educational portion was weak. Just a video or webpage to look at. I'm sure the topical classes are probably more in control than the holiday one was, but I was not impressed. Just thought I would chime in with our not so positive experience to stir the pot a bit. :)

Yes! Videos! If it's on YouTube, I can guarantee I can get him to watch it. There's something magical about YouTube in that kid's head. :) Actually, my DS is quite the computer nerd, so I've been considering signing up for the $15 Aha! Science to allow him to play science on the internet too. Thank you for reminding me! I completely understand what you mean about expecting more from the younger. I catch myself doing that too. But then I usually swing too far in the other direction and let him get away with everything. I've put Nurturing Inquiry on hold from the library. I'm hesitant to read it for fear I'll want to change things all over again. I've been so immersed in science for weeks now that I'm hitting science research burnout point. I have actually seen your posts about interest-led science and have already put up our question board! :) DD is actually a bit annoyed with it because he wants all his answers now, not when we have science time. :) I definitely agree about having a scope and sequence to check off in the background as he covers different topics. I was planning on using BFSU, but it's harder to tell from the flowchart what each topic specifically contains, so I'm definitely going to check out some other options. Which version of the Really Useful Science Book do you have? I'm seeing a Primary and an Elementary version. Yes! Being a compulsive planner has definitely been working against me in trying to make this change. It's good to know I'm in good company here! Thank you all for your input and support!!!

I really appreciate the time and thought you've put into this, Ruth. You've helped me narrow in my focus, and I think I have a plan. For the most part I'm going to let him just do a bunch of kits. We have a bunch waiting in the wings that will keep him busy for some time: Chemistry, Physics, Magnets, Electricity, Frog Hatching. By having him work through a kit, there will be some sequence and topic consistency, but instead of just letting him do them completely on his own, I will be the birdy sitting on his shoulder asking questions and getting him to ponder what he's doing. If I know ahead of time what he's going to be working on next, I may read through the corresponding BFSU chapter, so I can drop appropriate vocabulary in his lap while he's "experimenting." But for the most part, I'm going to let him play. I do have some lab sheets that I may have him fill out every once in a while, just 'cause, and he doesn't mind doing it. It makes him feel like a real scientist. I feel like you've given me permission to step back and just let him have fun, and that's what I needed. And after realizing that I've been totally slacking on writing with this one, I'm much more comfortable letting science be fun and play so we can focus on other skills next year. Again, thank you, thank you, thank you!!

I don't know the answer to your problem, but if you email the owner of Scholaric, he's really good about answering questions. You can find his email under the feedback link on the website. Good luck! ETA: And then I read your whole post and saw that you've already emailed him. :)

I was having this same problem. My kids like the looks of children's dictionaries with their pictures and large text, but so many words are missing. On the other hand, adult dictionaries have type that is far to small. Then I discovered that there is an in between level called student dictionaries, meant for grades 5-8ish. They have upwards of 75,000 entries versus the 25,000 in children's ones, but they still have pictures and larger text. I ended up getting the American Heritage Student Dictionary, but there are other options as well. This might be what you're looking for!

This is pretty much of what I'm trying to do. I'm not tied to any curriculum at this point; I'm just trying to make sure that we don't end up all over the map on a daily basis due to his enthusiasm. I've put together a list of general topics I want to cover, but when I ask him to choose one, he can't because from his perspective he wants to do them all. :) I'm trying to avoid scheduling every lesson so that he feels he has a choice, while at the same time making sure we aren't doing an "electric chemistry rock hunt." I like the idea of breaking up the learning goals into different categories. Thanks for that idea!!

Just wanted to give an update on what we decided to do. After getting a few different cookbooks and letting my DD look through them, she chose the DK book Get Started Baking. She will go through the book in order, from easier recipes to harder. I made up a notebooking page where she can list new ingredients and methods, attach a picture of the final product, and talk about how it turned out or what possibly went wrong. I also typed up a list of instructions for her so she knows exactly what she has to do for her notebook, and so she won't forget to clean up. I've linked to both these files below if anyone is interested. We'll do this once a week, since we don't need that many baked goods lying around. She's done it for two weeks now and seems to be enjoying it. We'll see how it goes in the long run! Thanks everyone for your help! Baking Notebook Page (There's a PDF version, but the lines don't seem to show up for me this way?) Baking Instruction Page

You ask the best questions!! Here goes! 1) Do *you* want to do lots of hands on? Can you realistically do this? If so, how frequently? No science plan will work unless it works for you as the teacher. Right now most of his hands-on activities are self led. He gets out the materials, does the "experiment" and then leaves it all out until I nag him to put it away. :) I'm willing to personally sit down with him and do hands-on activities with him twice as week as long as the materials are readily available and it doesn't take much prepwork for me ahead of time. This is what worked nicely with REAL, I had all the equipment ready to go and just opened the book and did the next thing. This is basically what we do right now, some sort of science activity twice a week. 2) What do you mean exactly by being 'a bit more streamlines to help him see the connections'? He is 7, so you need to consider his cognitive ability when answering this question. If it were up to him he'd be doing a different topic everyday. I just want to follow a sequence of topics in a logical order for a couple weeks at a time, at least. I think this will also prove to be necessary for building up to the complex topics he wants to cover, as I talk about below. That's what I was meaning by streamlined. He actually makes connections really well, but for my sanity I want more consistency. 3) Do you want to focus on a single topic each month/term? or do you want to be completely interest led? I think this needs to be a mix. He decides he wants to study electricity, so I look and see what topics he needs to cover to be ready to do electricity, and then after covering the basics, we tackle the chosen topic. He really wants to study high level stuff, but he needs the background to get to it. So any topic he chooses is going to, by default, require us to spend a few weeks to a month working up to it. My concern, though, is that he will lose his interest in the original topic if I spend too much time building up to it. 4) What are your goals? He is 7, so there are no requirements for science, so it really depends on what *you* want to achieve. I want to keep his enthusiasm and interest high, while at the same time creating a really strong foundation. This is my STEM child, so science is going to be a big thing for him. 5) Clearly you need to be careful of burnout because he is so very enthusiastic and likes to work with you. What exactly does this mean to you? As I said above, we already do science twice a week with an activity, so as long as that's all I plan, I can do it. If he wants to go above and beyond the "lessons" I plan, that would all be done on his own. Actually, having DD9 split off and do her own things will make twice-a-week hands on much easier. I'm well aware of my limits; it's taken me a couple years to figure them out, but I see them now. 6) What about REAL science odyssey worked for your ds? And for you? Be very clear and specific when you think this through. The answers to this question will inform your future plans. I was able to have all the supplies I needed ordered and ready ahead of time, and it was open and go for me. For him, there was a hands-on activity with each lesson. While this worked for us, since I've opened up our science topics in the last couple weeks to be more what he wants, he's been much more involved in learning and exploring than before. So while REAL worked, it's not completely what I want to keep doing, since he never felt the need to move beyond the curriculum when we were using it. 7) When you talk about ticking boxes, are you feeling the need to tick boxes with the 7 year old? if so what are the boxes? The boxes I like to tick are the daily schedule ones. I need to know what I'm doing on a daily/weekly basis and have it scheduled out. I need to be able to sit down at the beginning of the school day and know exactly what we need to get done that day. I'm not talking about achievement tick boxes here. DD7 is well ahead of where he would be in public school, so I really don't worry about that kind of thing with him. One thing I've pondered on possibly doing is having one science lesson a week be given by me based on a curriculum sequence, while the second lesson in the week is free science play for him, where he can explore whatever he wants. Then I can have some element of planned, and he gets to topic jump to his heart's content. The only problem I see with this is that whatever curriculum I'm using is going at half speed and takes twice as long to get through. Though I guess if I kept track of what topics he was hitting in his explorations I could probably skip or skim over topics covered in the curriculum that he's already explored. This is as close to a concrete idea I've been able to come up with for this one, but I'm not loving it yet. I just don't want to kill science for him!

That post is actually the one I based my plan on for DD9! I think we'll just need to experiment a bit to see which reading/output cycle works best since she is a very fast reader and an average writer. I found this great list of output ideas that I think I'll print out and let her choose from for each topic, though some of them, like quilt, will definitely not end up on the printed list: Art work Board Game Blog Collection Craft Demonstration Diorama Display Dramatization Experiment Garden Handicraft display Illustrated Story Instruction Manual Invention Labeled Diagram Lapbook Lego model Magazine or Newspaper Map with legend Mobile Model Mural Museum Needlework Oral Presentation or Speech Painting Pamphlet Paper Folding Paper Mache Photo Album Photography Podcast Poem Powerpoint Presentation Puppet Show Quilt Research Paper Scrapbook Shadow Play Slide Show Skit Terrarium Timeline Video Production Website Or Other—use your imagination! I think I've mostly got my brain wrapped around DD9, now on to DS7!!

Thank you, Ruth! In answer to the questions you posed: The goal of the output for DD9 is to consolidate her learning. She's good at putting info in one ear and having it leak out the other, so requiring her to regurgitate some of it will cause her to keep some in her head, hopefully. So in light of this, I would think more frequent output would make more sense than longer spans in between. DD9 is more of the humanities type, but I hate to pigeonhole her at this age. She loves to read and always rolls her eyes when it's time to do hands-on science activities, which is why I decided on this reading method of science. I imagine as she gets older that I would require more science time from her. So two hours per week in 5th, and more in 6th and 7th and so on. As she gets older I would require more difficult reading material which in turn would equate to more reading time, or at least that's how my perfect world would run. :) Looking forward to hearing more! Amanda

I have a science lover (DS7) and a history lover (DD9) that I've been combining together in science for two years now. It's dawned on me that I may be doing both of them a disservice by holding one back and forcing too much upon the other. I sat down with them and they both agreed that they'd like to split up and do their own things. DD9 wants to spend more time just reading about science topics, and DS7 wants to be hands on all the time (sigh). So here's what I've come up with so far for each of them: DD9 will pick topics based off of a list of general topics I would like covered by the end of 8th grade. I've made this list using BFSU and the topics covered on MatchCard Science. I've told her she needs to use at least three resources for each topic, one of which has to be a book, but the others can be documentaries, websites, etc. When she feels like she has covered the topic to her desire, she has to provide some sort of documentation of what she has learned, whether that be a written paper, a diagram, a film, a lab write-up, whatever. I've considered actually posing a main question for her to answer, but thought that might be too directed. She will be in 5th grade next year. Is this enough? How often should I require her to spend on this? Right now we do science twice a week for maybe an hour each day at most. Would maintaining this same schedule be enough? Is one project/paper per topic enough output for a 5th grader? What if she decides she wants to spend months reading about animals and never moves on, do I allow this? DD7 is really the problem child in this scenario. He is all over the place. I can't keep up with him. When asked what he wants to study, he said everything. He loves "experiments." I was planning on letting him also choose topics based on the same list as DD9, but then doing a one-on-one lesson with him from BFSU, since he loves to work with me; however, the BFSU lessons are more talk and less action than he wants. We have lots of resources to play around with, but I feel like it needs to be a bit more streamlined to help him see the connections between the things he's exploring. He will literally go from trying to light a lightbulb to blowing up plastic bags with baking soda and vinegar in two minutes flat. He's insatiable. How do I guide this? What kind of output should be expected of a 3rd grader, which he'll be next year? I'm totally stumped on this one. I need there to be a plan with this child or interest-led science will not last long here. We have been using REAL Science Odyssey for the last two years, which was honestly pretty good for DD7, and I'm not adverse to continue using it for him, but I really wanted to let him have more of a say in what comes next. So can you help this schedule-loving, box-checking momma wrap her head around how to do this and keep myself sane? I've read soooooo many threads on here about interest-led science, and I would really like it to work, but my brain is just not latching onto a plan. I would so greatly appreciate and help/input/advice I can get from any of you!! Thank you!!

I'm just starting down the interest led pathway, but the scheme I've come up with is this: I'm going to use the flow charts in the beginning of BFSU 1 and 2 (and 3 if I get it) and mark them off as we cover the topics. If we seem heavy on one pathway and weak on others, I'll possibly guide interest that way. I think this will help me see that we're covering the bases. Pretty much the same thing Rose is doing, just with a different spine.

Code Academy has a Java class. We just looked at the beginning lessons today. I don't know Java, so I'm not sure how extensive it is, but I really like the format so far.

Tonia, what level/s did you use? I have a 3rd and 5th grader, which falls into two separate levels in the program. I was wondering how easy/hard the worksheets were, to see if I can lump the kids together in either the lower or middle level. I'm just looking for something simple to follow GSWS. I love the simplicity and little chunks that we're getting right now and wanted to keep that style up. I don't really want a full blown curriculum, and Spanish for You! seemed like it was open and go and simple enough. I did see the many reviews out there, but honestly, after reading one, they all sounded the same, which made me wonder. My kids do play on Duolingo a bit for fun, but for now I've not been requiring it of them. Sigh. Elementary Spanish woes.

Did you end up trying this? If so, what did you think? I've been eyeing it, but I'm concerned about the lack of any info here on the boards about it.

If I were to go back to the beginning, this is what I would have done. I would have bought all the REAL Science Odyssey books for level 1 (or you could get the RS4K ones) and then followed the BSFU sequence using the labs and activities from REAL. I love the depth of content in BFSU, but my kids love the hands on activities included in REAL. I also like having the lab sheets that come with REAL rather than making things up like I would have to with BFSU. We're trying to do some of this now, but having already completed RSO Life and Earth & Space, we're kind of all over the place now trying to fill in the threads in BFSU. But I like knowing I've got my bases covered with BFSU yet keeping the fun factor up with other activities. My 2 cents. :)

Thank you! That DK book looks like it'll be really good! It's got tons of pictures, and I love pictures! I've got it on hold at the library to give it a try! And I remembered that I have a King Arthur baking cookbook that has sections that increase in difficulty. It's not a teaching book, but if we were to work from front to back it would progress in a somewhat logical order. And once we get to the point of doing breads I will definitely check out those other two! This baking thing is not going to be good for the waistlines in this house or the blood sugars of this diabetic! The sacrifices we make for our kids. :)

My daughter (9) wants to be a baker (pastry chef) when she grows up. I would like to encourage this by getting her started on how to bake something beyond pancakes and chocolate chip cookies. There are a fair amount of how to cook kids' cookbooks out there, but I'm looking for one specifically on baking. What I imagine is one that starts with basics, like biscuits/scones, moves to cakes, ends with yeast leavened goods, etc., and explains how and why all along the way. Does anyone know of any good resources for this type of thing? I did find this book on Amazon: Baking Basics and Beyond, which is kind of what I'm thinking of, but want to see what other options I may be missing. Thank you all for your help! Amanda

When we were considering moving to Thailand to teach English, we got Thai for Beginners. There is a book and a CD and it gets really good reviews. We didn't end up going, so I'm not sure how well it works long term, but the part I used seemed excellent. My kids at the time were really young and would give people directions in Thai. It was cute. Publisher's Web Site Book CD There's also an intermediate and advanced level, but we never got that far. There is also Thai on Mango Languages, which many library systems offer for free. I dabbled a bit with that one also. Have fun learning!!

Here's what 4th looks like for us this year: Math: CLE 400 Handwriting: HWT Cursive Success Grammar: GWG 4, MCT Grammar Island/Practice Island Spelling: Megawords 2 (though we're considering dropping this for Sequential Spelling) Vocab: WW3000 Levels 4 and 5 Writing: IEW SICC-A (went through a lot of different ones before landing on this winner!) State History: Studies Weekly History: SOTW 1 with AG Spanish: GSWS Science: REAL Science Odyssey Earth and Space Art: Nothing!! She loves it but we never get to it. Logic: Mind Benders Typing: Typing Program Music: Flute in the local school band And lots and lots of reading!