:iagree: I smell what you're steppin' in! :D

...but I do think that some of the responses are a little more focused on appearance than what I'm comfortable with/believe is good. That's all.

...I just also believe that it's not the end-all, be-all, and that my husband and I owe it to each other to make other areas of life more important. ::Shrug:: Different strokes! LOL, I guess it's the generalizing of "these women" that's nagging at me, in this thread. Each individual could be talking about extremely different things. ETA: This also isn't just about the conversation about "doing the best with what you have", it's about the specific comments about appearance change for other reasons. (Health, etc.)

...that a marriage would be built on something more than that. I mean, I like to look nice, I like nice things (clothes, shoes)...but I spend WAAAY less time on myself than I did when I was twenty. And I think that's a good thing. Sure, some women could be looking sloppy on purpose, as a sort of "badge of honor"...but some could actually have different priorities now, and less time to do. it. all. My husband has different priorities, too. He likes it when I take time to look nice, but he also likes me taking care of the kids, and sometimes that involves a little more focus on them, rather than me. When it gets out of balance, we change that, but it's bound to happen, when you're mothering a gang of kids. Special effort every now and then is good in many areas, for many reasons. But undue focus on appearances isn't healthy, in my opinion. Like almost everything else in life, I think there's a balance. There's a time to wonder, "Hey, don't you want me to be attracted to you, anymore?" and there's a time to be attracted to the person inside, and love them no matter what. Especially if they gave their body/looks in the interest of providing you with heirs. :D JMO.

...that the acts which brought the loss of children/jail time were the ONLY ways to ensure that freedom. Yes, certain (sometimes subversive) acts by certain folks helped to cement laws and raise awareness of homeschooling...but there were other people working within the law, too. (Or fighting to make sure that laws were definitive.) I'm saying this as someone who would move and support activism to keep homeschooling legal, if we found ourselves in a state that outlawed it. (Or enacted restrictions.) I might also look for ways to get around the law, find loopholes, etc. Telling someone what they need to endanger, specifically, to keep a freedom doesn't seem within the spirit of...well, keeping freedom, lol. ETA: As far as blatant disobedience of a law, yes, there are times when I'd be willing to do that. I believe as a Christian if a law goes against my beliefs, I can't obey it (Hebrew midwives), and to some extent, some of the reasons why we homeschool have to do with our spiritual position as parents. But those aren't general and across the board, so...it would depend, whether or not I'd be willing to risk losing a child to DHS, by keeping them out of school. If responsible parenting is part of why I homeschool, trying to make the most responsible choice in each individual situation has to take precedence over a simple, "This is what I'd do, no matter what."

LOL...I get upset when movies don't explain how different beings automatically understand each others' language. :)

...has this habit of saying, whenever Tom Cruise/Daniel Day Lewis/Whoever shows up in a movie, amidst a group of non-white folks, and surpasses them in skill... "Yeah, right...he's a better samurai than the samurai." (Or "...Mohican than the Mohicans", or whatever.) And then rolls his eyes. (We both get seriously tired of this particular device, lol.) So, you're saying I should expect him to lean over and say, "Yeah, he's a better...blue alien than the blue aliens"? :D (I still want to see it, lol.)

I write for pay, and would increase my client base if I needed to pull in more money. We do have insurance situated so that I wouldn't have to match dh's salary, should something happen to him.

...I don't post much, but I do pray for you regularly, and look for your updates. They're so encouraging when I see them, and I'm excited at what God's done. I know it must be difficult, and I'll remember this post when I pray for you next...I hope you get encouraged here, and lifted back up. God loves you, and we're thinking of you, and praying with you.

I agree with this. Joanne, you've had a lot of changes in your life, in the past several years. A lot of upheaval. Heartbreak. Things like that can't help but affect beliefs and thought processes, to some extent, and your change of heart and mind (from what you said you believed before) is completely understandable. I'd just offer, gently, that if your situations and experiences have changed your views from what they were several years ago...that the life you have yet to live might change them even more, as time goes on. That doesn't mean you can't have strongly held opinions, and express them...but it's just a caution that if certain core concepts have been changed for you, because of circumstances, that new circumstances might widen your view, even more. It's just a thought. That said, I agree with much of what you wrote... I believe every adult should either have or be aquiring a skill and/or education that can be used for income. I share that belief. I think it's just good common sense, and I don't know anyone outside of a very specific, small subculture that would believe otherwise. I do not believe "mothering" and homemaking is supposed to be a life long focus. I also think this accounts for at least part of the high percentage of depression (diagnosed and otherwise) in at home moms. I have to disagree. And, we're only talking opinion here, so that's fine...but I'd like to see the evidence of your statement about the high percentage of depression in at home moms. Vs. moms who work. Because you're saying it's higher...right? My anecdotal experience is different. I know a good many women who take medication for depression and they span a swath of single and married, homeschooling and not, stay-at-home and working. My grandmother, however, is exactly what you describe above, someone whose life long focus has been mothering--no volunteering, no outside work, very few hobbies that don't revolve around making her children and grandchildren happy--and she's probably one of the most content women I know. Her children and grandchildren--and most of her friends and their children--adore her. Relationships are the guiding force in her life, and she has reaped the benefits, I believe. (I do believe she's sowed seed in others' lives, so to speak, by simply being kind and praying for them...but that's something every Christian is compelled to do--and something considerate people do, anyway, regardless of their faith--not something seen apart from the choice to make homemaking a full time pursuit). Now, I'm not one who is completely content to homeschool and mother, to the exclusion of everything else, but I was when my older children were little. Things change. Life changes. My younger children have a mom who likes working, and gets a charge out of building other avenues of life, alongside the one they share. To be honest, though, I'd love to have my grandmother's contentment, and it's a goal for me. I believe it's a direct result of knowing who you are in Christ, and discovering your place, and feeling comfortable in your role, whatever it is. I don't think my younger kids have a bad mom, but she's probably not as great as the one who was happy to do nothing but care for kiddos. We juggle and adjust, though. I believe we've become child-centered and it's to the detriment of everyone. I share that belief, and don't believe it's a good thing, either. I honesty think that many Americans have idealized "family" and made an idol out of the concept. I don't share this belief...and I have to wonder how it would be possible for American society to be both child-centered, and family centered...? I do think that families can prioritize their own personal unit over everything else, and I think that's out of balance...but I don't know too many folks who do that, outside of that same, small subculture I mentioned above, that wouldn't encourage the possibility for self-sufficiency in a child. That's my pair of pennies, for whatever it's worth.

If you're talking about Titus 2, the instruction that the older women are giving the younger women is about...loving their husbands and children. Staying busy at home. 3Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good. 4Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children, 5to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God. That sort of specific instruction aside, I think that mentoring relationships are helpful, across the board. (Not just for Christians, either...I just wanted to address what the verse mentioned said.) Most of us are "older women", to someone. But we also still need mentors. To remind us that no one's arrived, yet. If your kids are teens, there's still a ways to go. If your kids are in their twenties, there's still a ways to go. You know? I think that we (speaking about women in this day and age) have largely substituted reading books, taking classes, and formulating our own theories for that tribe of women that we can simultaneously look to, and help along. They're both important parts of the process, and if we help along more than we look to (or vice versa) we probably feel that imbalance more than if we didn't. (And that isn't to say that reading books can't be a sort of mentorship, too...but it's definitely different than a real person, and it's only one way.) Of course, I need to add the standard disclaimers about using your own common sense (every older woman doesn't know what she's talking about), your mileage may vary, etc., etc., yada yada. :D

...and I use it with home-ground flour, too. (Half and half mix is what I have "brewing" right now). I'm not sure if the "Healthy Bread" book is radically different...but I think the concept (if it's the same one) is great. Gives you bread dough on hand, and makes it more likely at our house that we'll have homemade bread. :D

I don't think my parents and grandparents correlate my brother being homeschooled with how his life turned out. No one has ever said anything to that effect, anyway.

My mom homeschooled my younger brother (now 28) for high school. I think that helped pave the way with my grandparents (who are more like my parents); they didn't bat an eye when I said I was going to homeschool my kids. At least...they didn't bat an eye to my face. ;)

...wouldn't object, because it's part of their belief system. :001_smile: Have you ever read the Bhagavad Gita? It explains a bit about the connection. I think that there are Christians who view it as a practice, in and of itself, who wouldn't be bothered, and there are those who feel uncomfortable with it. I wouldn't want my younger children to practice yoga, and I doubt that my older ones (teens) would choose to, either. I think it's an issue like many others...some will not have a problem with it, and others will. ::Shrug:: But since it is tied to a spiritual practice...you might expect those with differing spiritual practices to want to opt out. Like using a Christian-specific curriculum or music for a group that's multi-faith. I don't think it's any reason for anyone to be rude to you (it sounded like some of the emails you received were bordering on that), but for future reference...it might be food for thought. (ETA: In answer to one of your questions...it would not insult me, for something like this to have happened. Especially if you're not a Christian, with an idea of all of the nuances between the variations of Christian belief. I'd opt out, but that's it. I know a lot of my ideas aren't the majority's, and I can accept when a decision will cost us participation in something, and I usually only do that if it's a "biggie" to me. I hope you don't feel bad about what happened, and I hope that the other members of the group were gracious to you, in voicing their opinions/concerns!)

This is what we do, too...down to the "family rate", lol!

Hey...I resemble that remark. :lol: Not really, though. And I don't believe that about Rose, either. But it is true that according to my standards--whatever those are in relation to everyone else's--we do okay. I do okay. Until I don't. ::Shrug:: The teaching part of my parenting is like any other part...it ain't perfect. And sometimes I slack. But then I wake up and realize that we need to be done slacking, and so we get back up again. Lather, rinse, repeat, ad nauseum.

I'll do some checking...and see if Victory has some competition. ;) Thanks for all the suggestions! I appreciate it.

Anyone have a great recommendation? A company you've used, that has great products/customer service? Heirloom/non-GM is my first priority...organic would be secondary to that. TIA! (ETA: I'm familiar with Victory, and had stuff in the cart there, today, lol...just wondering if I'm missing great deals somewhere else. ;-)

...about my husband hearing 'open and honest communication' from co-workers, lol; years of serving with non-American forces have proven that many of them are quite comfortable expressing their sentiments (good and otherwise) about the U.S. :D

I wasn't saying anything about what anyone who worked with my husband thought of him...I thought we were talking opinions about the U.S.? The military? I was just wondering about the scope of your comment. (How many folks? Across how many branches?) That's it.

I know non-Americans who aren't crazy about our culture, lol, and I know others who love aspects of it, and make a point of vacationing here. ::Shrug:: It's not new...there has always been a certain anti-American sentiment around, but I think the face of it has changed, somewhat, in the last couple of decades.

Um, okay. :confused:

...how big of a sampling we're talking about? Across how many branches of the armed forces? My husband's experience has been somewhat different. (There's an Aussie contingent here (OK base), working with a particular subset of the Air Force, and folks in this field work closely with the Australians). Would you mind elaborating?

It's been different than I thought it would be, and I can't say that I'm crazy about the format, but yes, I'd make the choice to have them take it online, again. My reasoning had to do with wanting a more challenging Spanish experience, as well as a grade from someone other than Mom for the ol' transcript. :001_smile: Next year, they'll probably be able to take it at the local community college, and I'll likely go that route, instead.