msjones
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Posts posted by msjones
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Thank you for asking.
Originally I simply didn't care. I was raised to be open to religion. My family believed in God but didn't go to church. My father was Missouri Synod Lutheran and my mother hated the Catholic church. It was always put to me that someday I might marry a girl that was religious and I might choose to join her faith. I never questioned this. God was always there, I always assumed that, even though I wasn't religious that God was there for me. When asked what religion I was I answered, "Lutheran." I went to many weddings and funerals with my Catholic relatives and could kneel and genuflect with the best of them. But as I got older I began to question why I felt the need to answer, "Lutheran" when I wasn't religious. Why was I ashamed to be what I was?
This was the beginning of my questioning.
I read the Bible from cover to cover. I still keep one on the bookshelf here and read it from time to time. At one point I was able to quote chapter and verse from it. I went to Lutheran services for a time, even bringing my family as we thought the children could do with religious teaching. But the more I was exposed to it the more I questioned it. And then the religious right started to take over the Republican party. James Dobson and Focus on the Family started to become loud and angry. I realized that what they stood for, I was against. If there was a god out there he wouldn't have anything to do with harming homosexuals or watching what I did in my bedroom. He wouldn't condone taking a busload of children on a picnic and baptizing them without their parents consent. Fred Phelps does not speak for God. Slowly I came to realize that while I might consider believing in a god it was not the same god these people believed in.
So I became an atheist in a sense. I knew what gods I didn't believe in. I didn't believe in Thor or Zeus or Ra or the god of Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell or Ted Haggard.
But I still wouldn't have classified myself as an atheist. I still would have said that yes, there was a Big Bang but surely a deity could have started it all. Evolution was true but it could have been directed. There were all these little copouts that let a god of the gaps creep in. But, as time went by I found that, more and more, I just didn't believe. Not just in specific gods but in any god. It's not like I ever needed a deity to give me purpose and I certainly didn't need a god to calm my nerves about dying. When the curtain goes down and the lights go out it's rather comforting to know that's it. There is nothing else, no grand inquisition awaiting me after death, just blackness.
With that in mind I found that there just wasn't any evidence of a god, no need for a creator and no reason to cling to the notion that I needed a god. So all that was left was the pressure of others who insisted that I couldn't be a good person without God in my life.
Ya know what? I'm a good person because it's the right thing to do, not out of fear of consequences from some unseen deity. Strike three.
I simply don't believe. But how do I know? What's more likely? A magic being who can do anything and interferes in our lives daily but leaves no trace or no being? The God most people imagine can't exist because the traces it would leave would be all over the place and they just aren't there. Matter doesn't move by itself. Matter, energy... they don't appear and disappear. God isn't Harry Potter. Harry Potter isn't Harry Potter. Magic is an illusion. So, I believe, is god.
I'd like to say I absolutely KNOW that there is no god. I can only say I absolutely know there aren't SOME gods. I believe there aren't any. I'm an atheist.
I think I understand most of your post, but have a few questions...based on the evolution thread you don't seem easy to offend, so, here ya' go...
You were a key element in the evolution conversation -- I appreciated your persistently pressing others to seek evidence.
So, along that line of argument -- do you have evidence against a god/God/creator? Your post explains your concerns with American Christian culture, and your personal non-need for religion. Those are easy for me to understand, but I'm wondering about what you would see as evidence.
You mention matter not moving on its own, and a lack of "traces" of a god/God. I think I see what you're getting at; we can explain most/much of what happens through science, so God isn't 'necessary.' (Correct me if I'm misunderstanding...)
Is that enough evidence for you? I wouldn't have thought so, based on your posts in the other thread.
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I'm not an atheist any more, but I can't agree with that assessment. When I was an atheist I lacked faith. Now I have faith. It's just that simple.
I think the idea (as I understand it) is that just as one can't prove that God exists, one can't prove that God doesn't exist -- so that's the leap of 'faith.'
And it seems, if I'm not misunderstanding, that many folks who have responded agree that they aren't certain -- they're choosing to believe what makes the most sense to them given what they do know to be true, or what seems to be false.
I think I'd call that faith. But, I certainly don't have some well-developed definition of "faith." I'm just thinking 'out loud.'
I have no axe to grind here. I just find it a fascinating topic -- and that evolution thread really got me thinking.
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because I have found no proof of one.
What would be an example of something you would consider "proof?"
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Yes the gulf is vast and the post was ridiculing. I believe that to think we evolved from one species to another is science fiction. I cannot even begin to understand how anyone could believe that until I remember that the Bible states that it would happen and why. Then I understand and try not to be hard or harsh with them. And in this day and time of "tolerance" I expect the same treatment of gentleness from "enlightened" people.
My ds18 informed me that I should not debate the topic but debate why should an unproven theory be taught in the public school to impressionable children as fact. That is the problem that needs to be addressed.
For the record. I teach my children the theory of evolution to show them what others that are unsaved believe. I explain to them why they believe it and encourage them to investigate it. My son has thoroughly studied evolution and apologetics for the last 5 years all over the country under Astro and Nuclear physicists, Biologists, Former evolutionist, and all sorts of scientists. If he has come to the conclusion that it is not worth debating, God will change hearts and minds, I will not debate it. I do hope it stays civil. Wish I could stay, it is a great conversation.
If you've read this thread you know that there are Christians who reject the notion of a young earth. :confused:
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Lots of interesting reading over in the everlasting evolution thread... and it has me thinking....
If you are an atheist, what has made you certain that there is no god?
I've heard it said (and tend to agree) that atheism requires just as much faith as a belief in god. What do you think of that idea?
No antagonism here-- just interested to hear from some of the atheists on this board. It can be hard to have a civilized conversation about this sort of thing in real life, but there seem to be plenty of pleasant, articulate folks with divergent perspectives on this board...
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I will ignore your last paragraph as it is beneathe you to ridicule someone's beliefs to that extent and will put it down to the late hour.
There is a tremendous amount of evidence of a young earth. But you have to listen to it first to see that it is there. The layers were formed at the same time, not over millions of years. It was the result of a catastrophic global event. We call it the Flood. I have listened to the theories of evolution and the old earth theory repeatedly because I was intrigued by the notion of a time before Adam. Not having studied ancient history or Biblical history at all because of my youth I was willing to listen to anything. I was searching for truth and wanted to hear it all. So for 10 years I did. And I keep listening. I just attended a seminar 2 weeks ago on evolution and then on Creation. I still have no doubt, looking at all the evidence, that God designed this extremely complex and outrageously perfectly in sync earth. In six days. less than 10,000 years ago.
But of course you have your way of thinking and I would never, out of respect for you as someone created in the image of God, and out of respect for your right to keep listening and searching for truth, ridicule you or your beliefs, however far fetched I find them. I would never say you didn't have a right to my respectful disagreement.
I'm not sure she was "ridiculing" you and your beliefs; I think she may have been trying to emphasize just how stunning the 'young earth' perspective can seem to those who have never heard it. I realize the terms "alien" and "fairy" may seem provocative, but I think her use of them can help us understand her perspective.
I'm the OP for this thread, a long-time Christian, and was literally dumfounded when I recently heard of 'young earth.'
I don't say that with the intention to belittle anyone's beliefs, but rather to emphasize just how baffled I was upon first learning that many of today's Christians believe earth is only 10,000 years old. The gulf between the two (or three, or more) sides of this discussion is vast.
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It's very easy to teach, and enjoyable, I think.
You just have to be ready to put in the time. Most lessons are teacher-time intensive. That's why I like it!
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I know many people just like you. I don't understand them. As I understand things, the Bible (and the Koran and the like) are "divinely inspired" manuscripts. This means they are written physically by men but the words are put into mens heads by God. (or gods) This means that the Bible is meant to be as perfect a book as can be found on this Earth. No mistakes. If you read it in the Bible it is true. Or as many write it, "True". So when you read:
Genesis 1
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Why that means exactly that.
Yet in the first sentence on the first page in the first book of the Bible there is a mistake. We know that the earth is about 4.53 billion years old while the universe began at least 9 billion years before the earth did. So unless you're going to allow for 9 billion years of literary license the Bible isn't "True".
So you must take the Bible as metaphor. Only, this is problematic since each person can take a different meaning to each story, to each paragraph, to each word. The meaning is now in the eye of the beholder, so to speak. And that means that the Bible is no longer a book whose meaning is delivered by a deity but now it is one whose meaning is delivered by YOU.
That is threatening... no matter how you look at it.
You would be an interesting dinner guest.
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I actually would do the complete opposite: sit with her and do her schoolwork with her. Since she's only in first grade, it needn't take much more than an hour or so. It sounds to me like she needs you to be there with her, directly her and helping make her school time more enjoyable. There's plenty of time in the future for her to learn to work independently.
I agree. It's certainly worth a try for a week or so.
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Now, that was a nice little treat after a long day of homeschooling. Thanks!
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Is anyone willing to give me a quick 'review' of the TT 4,5,6 programs?
I have read some criticism that the program is "too easy." Was that your experience? Or was it just so effective that it seemed easy?
I did a search, but didn't find anything specifically related to the elementary years of TT. I'd appreciate links to any relevant threads.
Thank you!
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My son struggled with falling asleep a few years ago when he was 7-ish. I bought him a microwavable heating pad to hold while he fell asleep. That did the trick! It was very soothing to him somehow and got him out of his bad bedtime pattern.
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Common concerns regarding Everyday Math:
~Not enough teaching of basic addition, subtraction, mult, division facts
~New and seemingly bizarre algorithms for addition, subtraction, multiplication, division
~A very wide 'spiral' schedule which allows for little review/practice of the newly taught, seemingly bizarre methods
~Homework pages are often difficult for parents to understand, leading to angst and misery during homework time
~Not enough training for/ buy-in from teachers,
I tutor math at a school that uses Everyday Math, so I see both sides of it. Some kids do very well with it, some really struggle. Some teachers find it revolutionary, others are dying to get out their old Addison-Wesley teacher's guide and get back to the 'good old days.' Some parents don't even know there's a new curriculum, while some are organizing to protest against it at school board meetings.
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This doesn't address your specific questions, but you asked for "any and all advice," so here goes.
We used the Unofficial Guide to Disney tour plans and had great success. If it would be helpful for your special needs son to have a predictable schedule, (much) shorter wait times, and a break in the afternoon, I'd strongly suggest the tour plans.
My family was quite reluctant to try them, but I pushed, and they agreed to try one day. The only drawback is that you must get to the park early for the plans to work. The benefit? During spring break our estimated average wait time was TEN MINUTES per ride. We could hardly believe how well the plans worked. My family was completely sold on the plans --we used them all 3 days and would never do it again without the tour plans.
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Congratulations. I'd say you have a successful 3rd grade reader.
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Pilates.
I love it. Excellent results. Flat stomach and toned, flexible muscles.
Try the Gaiam Beginning Mat Workout DVD.
There are a few crunches in there, but the emphasis is on fewer high-quality repetitions.
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I had a student like this when I taught public school. So bright and hard-working! But soooo quiet and reluctant to participate in the group. The difference was that his parents said he "loved" my class. His demeanor certainly didn't indicate that to me, so I worried about him.
I didn't want to change his personality or anything sinister like that; I was looking for some indication that he wasn't miserable in my class. I cared about him and wanted him to be happy at school. So, as he was such an extremely quiet little guy, I was concerned.
His parents described him as a "true-blue introvert," and said they had both been similar in school. So, I didn't see him as a problem, but I don't think my concern for his well-being at school ever quite dissipated. Maybe that's what your son's teachers are feeling, too.
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Haven't read all the posts, but this is what my husband just said: "What?! Hmmm...Well, he might not be a jerk, but that's awfully weird."
And my husband likes aggression -- being a football coach and all.
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I read in the introduction to the teacher's guide to do one lesson a week. So they only work on 3 sentences each day, and the lessons will spread out over more of a school year.
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I have friends who are expecting or who have little babes, and a friend whose son finished cancer treatment a year ago.
I'm thinking them, as well as hoping to avoid too much flu misery for my own family.
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SWB must be out of town.
I'm amazed this hasn't been shut down as a 'political thread.'
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My experiences have been generally positive. My intentions are not to bash public schools, but if I can't feel safe discussing why I avoid them on a homeschooling board, where can I feel safe doing so? I brought up some questions about writing the other day and I started to get the sense that some felt I was bashing public schools. I honestly was not. I thought this board was mostly about classical education at home. I would not go to a board where public school teachers discuss curriculum hoping to get sympathy as a homeschooler.
Your writing thread was interesting, and it was discussing a specific aspect of public school curriculum vs. what we can do at home. That is a sensible and helpful discussion.
What I find disappointing in a community of presumably educated adults are the discussions of The Public Schools/Teachers/School Districts/Public School Parents. I don't find it helpful or accurate to generalize so extremely.
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I wonder if we're just biased in our birth-control culture. My mother had something like 113 cousins. I can't remember all the numbers, but a few of her aunts had more than 14 kids who lived to adulthood. (I bet the grammar gals on this board could rip that sentence to shreds! I can't get it right...)
I suppose these same women may have had 19 if they had had access to modern medicine, like Michelle Duggar. Maybe even more, since they married younger. Who knows?
I've never seen the show, but have seen a few interviews. My sense was that they were enjoying their unusually large and lovely family, and caring for them quite well.
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My husband initially said, "absolutely not" to the idea of homeschooling.
He gradually came around as I spent more and more time working as a tutor for homeschoolers. I could not say enough about the effectiveness of the tutoring setting.
There was no avoiding the fact that it is more difficult and less efficient to teach a big, huge group of children with a multitude of needs and abilities.
So, here we are on year 5 (!), and I think he may actually be more committed to homeschooling than I am.
(He also said, "no livestock", and we just got our three adorable hens last week! ;))
Theory of Evolution -- do you avoid teaching it?
in General Education Discussion Board
Posted
The Language of God
Great book.