Well, I'm bowing out of my own thread. Too emotional for me to discuss rationally. Thanks to those of you who shared.

Well said.

Hmm...not sure I understand what you're getting at here. Do I think that pregnancy/baby would be better off aborted? Is that what you mean? (Not meaning to sound snarky there...it's coming off that way on the internet, though.)

The question is also for those of you who have adopted children. I was adopted as a newborn. My birth mom was only 15. My husband was adopted out of foster care when he was 6 months old. Most of our sibling were also adopted. I know that my life began badly as an unwanted pregnancy. I imagine that I was the worst thing that had ever happened to my birth mother and that she was possibly desperate to get rid of her pregnancy. If I could meet her, I would be overflowing with gratitude for her choice to give birth to me. My husband feels the same way. We are thankful to be alive. I am largely pro-life, but a teeny-tiny bit of me is pro-choice -- only because I hate what desperate women may do to themselves if safe abortion isn't available. I go back and forth on that. I have no idea where this thread will go. But, reading the Planned Parenthood thread had me thinking about this all day. I am the result of an unwanted pregnancy. I imagine many of us are and may not know it. Thoughts?

I had the opposite reaction. I'd been taught (in school) that abortion was a sort of neutral option that one would prefer to avoid but may not be able to. Then I saw those images. Changed my perspective for sure.

I've not heard of the plastic baby-throwing. That was probably illegal. But I do support their right to hold up the signs and am glad it's legal for them to do so.

I can see why they would choose a spot like that. Photos like that would absolutely have the attention of all those impressionable teenagers going into a school that likely teaches liberal values... They would see themselves as presenting an alternative point of view.

I know you said no nuts, but this is nut butter, not a handful of nuts. I love to have a few slices of apple spread with crunchy peanut butter (just a tablespoon or so). I'm a fan of salty/crunchy snacks and this gives a little crunch, a little salt, a little sweet, and it's pretty filling. I usually have it before I start cooking dinner.

There are quite a few (10-12?) regular protesters outside one of the PP locations nearby. They always appear calm and quiet, but they do hold large, graphic images of aborted fetuses. Not terrifying, but very unpleasant and unwelcoming for sure.

Obviously, the violent protesters are breaking the law and need to be stopped. I am not siding with them in any way. But, their perspective is that worse violence is taking place inside clinics that provide abortions. And so they feel they are quite justified -- as they would be if they were to attempt to defend a baby in a stroller from being killed. For that reason, If I were working at one of those clinics or going there for routine medical care, I'd want all that security.

I know some of you will think this is unhealthy: I require my kids to fake it. In our house, even if you aren't feeling thankful, you are to say thank you and behave as though you appreciate what someone does for you. Even if you don't want to work, you are to act as if you want to and get it done. I have to fake it all the time as an adult -- I think it's part of being polite. So, that's how I deal with that here. I don't think my kids are particularly grateful, but they do need to act as if they are. That's enough for me right now.

45 minutes on the bike and a lovely, cold, starry walk with my husband tonight.

Your name must be stated prior to your testimony and is public record in a court case, I believe. No anonymous witnesses here in the USA.

Throw them out -- no guilt! I tossed a huge canister of homemade cookies yesterday. I had a bunch of computer work to do and knew I'd want just one or two with some coffee while I worked. So, out they went. We all had our share of cookie yumminess last week. We don't buy any junk. It's too hard to ignore it when I'm here all day with the boys schooling.

60 more min on the bike yesterday -- I'm up to almost 100 miles this week!

Busy day yesterday with a big group over for dinner, so had to cram in 60 min on the bike. Today, hope to do a long walk with my husband and the bike as well. No rain so far, so it should be nice!

OP here. Yes, I'm an American. I like America. And (as I mentioned a gazillion posts back) I do regret my use of the word 'wimp' in my post. Big mistake. Sorry for offending some of you. And I didn't formulate my question well at all. I'm still not sure what the perfect question would have been -- something about work ethic and the goal of education...and materialism and the meaning of life. :) Big question!

You're right! It's what I was just thinking as I cleaned the kitchen. Something about the 'neglect' thread just rubbed me the wrong way. I haven't yet put my finger on just what it was. I'll be thinking about it.

I do not have a lack of exposure to the wider world. Far from it. I refer to Americans in this thread merely because most WTM forum members are Americans.

Hmm. I don't seem to have articulated my question well at all. Again, I think the wording in the thread title is a major distraction and my own mistake. Perhaps it is just here in my PNW neighborhood. But, most people I know would be very upset and embarrassed if their children never attended college and grew up to work a low-paying job. Does that attitude not exist elsewhere in the USA?

Well. OP here. I wouldn't use the word "wimp" again (I'd probably choose "spoiled" or "entitled" or "snobs"). The word seems to have distracted from my main question. My mistake. I think this is the first time one of my posts has been called "silly" and "ridiculous" and "offensive." It's okay. Point taken. I know I'm painting with a broad brush, but that was sort of my intent. I meant to discuss general, mainstream American culture -- not individual situations.. I still say that many (most) Americans see a modest income and basic education as failure. They think it's tragic or heartbreaking or shameful to have to work hard to maintain a simple lifestyle. I think that's a shame.

I did get my hour on the bike in yesterday -- didn't make it out for a hill hike because the weather was just too nasty. Plan to try a new 'hill hike' -- a la shukriyya :)-- today with my husband.

No, I certainly don't think it is optimal. But I don't think it's neglect or abuse or anything horrible for a family to aspire to a simple, low-income lifestyle. My grandpa was a school custodian. He was loved and admired and cherished by many. He did not have a 'good' job (by the majority of Americans' standards). He did not have a 'good' education. He did not have much money. But he had a good life. Working a low-wage job, living in humble circumstances, living with only a GED -- these are not necessarily poverty, misery, and ignorance.

Hmm. I wouldn't call that wimpy, either. But what I'm wishing to discuss is that many of us consider a basic education, a simple low-paying job, and humble housing to be signs of failure.

I'm sure there are. But that wasn't coming through in the 'educational neglect' thread. There was a repeated suggestion that living on a low-paying job, sharing housing, etc was some kind of travesty.