I agree. Unfortunately, rational discussion and logical argument quickly go by the wayside where this conversation is concerned. Yes. There are all manner of underlying problems and issues, but the tool is the means by which the end is accomplished. I'm bothered by an attempt to define the character and mindset of a person about whom we knew absolutely nothing until yesterday ~ and really, about whom we still know very little. Along those lines, I find it strangely voyeuristic and of very little purpose that people are reading his "tweets". I've no doubt some try to justify it ~ "We can better understand his motivation and learn from that going forward". But no, let's be honest. It's primarily voyeurism.

I was just relaying info from a hospital spokesperson.

Yes, typically Harborview would receive a more critical patient, but that apparently wasn't the case. The boy taken there is out of surgery and in stable condition.

I'm not watching TV, but via other sources, the shooter is the one confirmed fatality thus far. Four others are injured, three very critically. The Seattle Times newspaper is reporting one more fatality, but other local media haven't yet reported that. As with all news these days, the story is in constant flux. ETA: Police have now confirmed one additional fatality in addition to the shooter. The three critically injured students are in surgery. All have head wounds as they were shot at point-blank range.

Just coming to share about this. The high school is about an hour away from us. Nice rural setting but not far north of Seattle. They are saying the shooter has died from a self-inflicted gunshot wounded, while several victims (one shot in the head) have been taken to hospital. Shooting apparently took place at 10:45 a.m. in the cafeteria ~ exactly where my guys were at that time at their high school. Very depressing.

Okay, now THIS is an issue, I grant you that. Imo it's much worse than it used to be ~ may be age, may be weight gain. (As a teen, I had an overweight piano instructor (and a smoker, to boot) and I swear, her heavy breathing could throw me off an entire piece!) I honestly can't listen to and enjoy Prairie Home Companion as I used to, the breathing is so disconcerting. Skeeves my boys out, too.

I'm going to venture a guess that every single person who has participated in this thread ~ or who frequents this board ~ realizes this. But this is, after all, a place to hang out and chit chat. I don't give a flying fig about Renee Zellweger's appearance (I doubt anyone here deeply cares, for that matter) and opted not to comment on it. But I did click on the thread, as did you, and that indicates an interest on some level, even if it's just an interest in knowing what other people are talking about. Which takes us back to the purpose of this forum. Banter. Nothing more, nothing less. I guarantee you that admonishing people for discussing physical appearance ~ and implying in the process that others aren't giving consideration to "the inside" ~ did absolutely nothing to accomplish your intent.

Liberating, isn't it? ;-) Hehehe. These sort of response run through my mind (and ~ whaddya know?! ~ often escape my lips) as I live in a town of prayerful Pollyannas. ;-)

As with the name change (or not) issue, I'm very glad I started this thread. Your comments are giving me a lot to think about ~ though I'd rather not think about any of this, of course. I appreciate the reminder to consider details such as who pays for extracurriculars, etc. There are a lot of nitty-gritty details that I honestly don't think have occurred yet to Hans (and I'm sure some haven't occurred to me, either). He sees it as a "simple" matter of dividing our assets, sharing the kids 50/50, and going our separate ways. I'm sure every person who's gone through divorce wishes it was so easy! A friend suggested this. I can see that in many ways, it might be easiest for the boys. They'd just stay here, in the home they've always known and I guess eventually would get accustomed to the "new normal" of having a different parent be here from week to week. On the other hand, something about this set-up strikes me as transient, too. Like neither Hans nor I would ever feel settled, which in turn might create a weird feel in the home. I don't know. Maybe I just need to warm up to the idea. No. We can't have more than one dwelling (even if the second is a trailer) on this property. This was actually something we considered last year, when we remodeled our house. (Yes, we just last year lived up in town while we poured a load of money into a remodel!) I expect him to propose that I stop homeschooling. I'd like to continue for through at least this year and possibly next. This will have to be discussed along with everything else. Yes, regardless of who lives where, he's at the property every day doing farm-related work. I will eventually need to work ~ somewhat dependent on the schooling situation. But sooner or later, of course, I'll need a job. Don't ask me right now what that will be. ;-) Yes, the goal is a collaborative divorce, which utilizes attorneys and other professionals while avoiding litigation. Right now, it's difficult to imagine how we can achieve anything collaboratively. But I do know we both have the boys' best interests at heart and our attorneys (and others who would be involved) are very experienced in this approach to divorce. So, we'll see.

Aside from sports, NPR is the only radio I listen to. Don't have a clue what you're talking about.

Stop shouting, please. You seriously doubted that many/most people, when beset by misfortune, are aware that the circumstances could be worse. That may well be true. Not my reality, but perhaps true of others. Agreed. I don't know that anyone here is saying otherwise; I'm hearing people say that poverty looks different in different places.

I hear you, though I disagree that those with whom you're arguing are "pontificating". I do think the United States often falls into a a mindset of, perhaps not "At least we're not as bad off as they are", but more a self-appointment as The Best Nation in the World. So while we lament this, that, and the other, we simultaneously turn a blind eye to real problems ~ and real solutions ~ because, after all, we're better than, right? And some of us are saying that we have/would tell ourselves that very thing in such a circumstance.

Really? I think along these lines all the time ~ on a daily basis, even. I'm acutely aware, each day, of what a miracle it is to have clean, running water readily available. I consider, when dealing with hard stuff, how much harder it would be if my circumstances were different (living here or elsewhere). For the record, it isn't necessarily different where agriculture is concerned. In Washington state, 12 year olds can legally work some harvesting jobs during non-school months. Ha! Well put. Indeed.

That is just plain not nice. So there. ;-D

This is actually really reasonable in many respects. Oh, for a basement flat right about now! My 16 and 14 yo boys attend the high school, while I still homeschool the two youngest. I think the closeness of this lifestyle makes the idea of separate living arrangements even more difficult to digest. I just…I feel sick, honestly, when I think of my guys living elsewhere for a week (or longer). Alternating one week after another does seem disruptive. At this point, everything about all of this seems disruptive; I'm having a hard time seeing the positives to any options if you kwim. I keep thinking one main home base makes sense ~ but that may well be because I want to be the home base. :-/

Those who are divorced, are you willing to share what your parenting plan ~ custody, visitation, living situation ~ looks like and how/why you came to arrangement? I am talking about situations in which both parents have been caring, involved participants in their children's lives. From an objective standpoint, I would likely say that kids should have equal time with each parent. But, of course, I'm less than objective and it's so difficult to fathom that reality. :-/ And then, too, I wonder how it plays out logistically and emotionally for each parent? I know of several situations in which the children live with their mothers during the week and have weekends with their fathers. In another family, the kids are with their mom the entire school year and their dad the whole summer. Both scenarios seem less-than-ideal to me, but I'm admittedly going to have to accept a lot of less-than-ideal things as the divorce progresses. I realize this is a highly personal topic, but I think if we keep it practical it won't violate board rules. If you'd rather contact me privately, feel free to send a private message. Thanks!

:001_smile: And we support the outsourcing with our economic vote. And so it goes.

Aw, heck. And I was just the other day talking about how much I loved those candy cigs! Ah, memories….

I didn't have to think it over to decide I don't care. But (cough, cough) that obviously didn't stop me from clicking on the thread. ;-)

I didn't read it as "calling out" her son, rather offering creative alternatives. Many people (teens & young adults, as well as their parents) appreciate hearing what others have done for short-term work. I understood her to be saying that there isn't really work available, which may be the case ~ or not. So people were giving some suggestions. Short-term summer work in our area is readily available in large part because of at-related businesses. And my oldest son, while home from college this past summer, worked for Public Works Department doing seasonal work. Public Works and Parks & Rec are good ideas, for those who may not have thought about that. As far as wanting a young person to get to be a kid a bit longer before entering a lifetime of work, I think a lot of young people can get great satisfaction out of employment. Once they're in their mid-teens, my guys don't really want to keep spend time being a kid. They'd rather work, both as a means of keeping busy and, of course, earning money. ;-)

Agreed. I know that you know. And you may know that I'm fairly in touch with what's what in the wage arena, too. My side note wasn't directed to you in particular, simply as a reminder within the general discussion. Then, too, it's one thing to support a just wage and another to shoot ourselves in the foot when small, independent businesses can't afford to pay $15/hour. Sticky wicket.

Side note: Don't forget that minimum wage in some states is significantly higher than the federal standard. And within some of those states, higher yet.

I primarily buy name brands. I intentionally support specific producers/companies, such as Nature's Path, Annie's, Amy's, Tillamook, Eden Foods, and Organic Valley (of course!). I'm also partial to Miele (vacuums and appliances).

One word: Miele. I've had twenty years of positive experience with Miele vacuums. Immer besser. ;-)

In today's teen/young adult culture, marijuana is pretty much viewed in the same context as alcohol. When I was in high school, pot was more fringe; now it's more mainstream. So yes, I agree that a fair share of people will try something beyond alcohol. Same. Absolutely. Assuming/implying that we all choose our own lifestyle ~ be it with regard to drug use or any other facet of life ~ is imo a means of self-reassurance.