That's a debate for the ages. I started looking for an MLA book for my 7th grader last year, and when I asked a friend that teaches high school English what she uses, she said they don't even teach it anymore. She said there are several good sources on the internet that are free so they tell the kids to pick one of those and tell which source they used to write their paper. I don't like that though. After doing more research, I decided to start teaching from the MLA book in 9th grade. In the meantime, we use Writer's Inc which teaches MLA in a gentle way. To answer the original question, some programs just don't gel with certain kids. I read the quote by SWB and laughed because that was my oldest when we tried it 4 or 5 years ago. I then tried it with my youngest and realized she was bored stiff and dreaded doing it. It's not that I don't like it or there is something wrong with it. It just didn't engage my kids, which is important in elementary school. My oldest loves creative writing which SWB does not recommend for elementary school (I don't remember the age she recommends you start that at and I'm too lazy to go looking for it :) ), so we were better off finding a program that encouraged creative writing but still taught the concepts she needed. Writing Tales fit that bill. My youngest has no interest in writing at all so I decided to follow Charlotte Mason's teachings and hold off until this year. We've been working on grammar and mechanics and this year we'll use Rod and Staff's writing exercises and hopefully add in some Write With the Best exercises. Since she just wants to get the assignment done and finds no pleasure in it, that's what we'll do. She's at an age now where I can say to her, "You have to do it because it's what's required," and she will accept that. She is in the logic stage where she knows there are just some things you gotta do. So, if you're interested, buy the book used and give it a try! It's inexpensive and you don't need any workbooks. If you don't care for it, sell it. That's what the rest of us do. ;) Blessings!

Welcome to our world! :) I thought I'd chime in on the Math question. We've been homeschooling from the beginning and my oldest has always struggled with math. She is just now doing Pre-Algebra in 8th grade and that's fairly common. Not everyone is ready for Algebra before High School. There are several programs that have a year you can do if your student is not ready for Pre-Algebra or Algebra. Bob Jones has Fundamentals of Math for grade 7, Saxon has Level 8/7, , and A Beka has Basic Mathematics. I'm sure there's more, but these are the three I'm familiar with and looked into for my oldest. What we ended up using I wouldn't necessarily recommend for you. We used Math U See Zeta this year. It covers Decimals in depth with the understanding that your child KNOWS their multiplication and division. You can go to their website to read more about it and download a placement test if you're interested. You might be surprised! But it is a very different math program from what your kiddo would be used to. It works on mastery of one concept for entire year. Some kids thrive on this (like my oldest), some kids don't (my youngest). Hope that helps! Dorinda Whoops! Forgot the MUS link :) http://store.mathusee.com/

We always started the first week of August until a couple of years ago. Through no fault of our own, it seems like there has been a major life event that prohibits us from starting in August, forcing us to wait until after Labor Day. I've grown to like it though. It feels less rushed, more relaxed. As the girls have gotten older, it feels like our summers are rush, rush, rush. August ends up being our time to kick back and relax. I finish lesson plans at a leisurely pace and the girls get to lay around and do nothing.

I think you can do it if you have a curriculum that lends itself to independent work and homework on the 5th day. That's how our year ended up last year, 3-4 teaching days, 2 heavy homework/independent days. Our 7th grade schedule went something like this: BF ancients (History, Lit and Geography) - I met with her once a week to go over the material and see if she was on track. BF is absolutely perfect for this kind of schedule. I would put dates in the guide and have her do 3 lessons a week. We would meet on Mondays to discuss, go over her notebook, and work on papers. MUS - Went to her dad when she needed help. Apologia General Science with the new notebook - My dream was to meet with her once a week, but it didn't happen. She would follow the schedule in the book. I would help her with experiments, and then we would meet before the test to go over the summary and review sections. She actually did REALLY well! Those are just the main subjects. For 8th grade, I haven't got the schedule figured out yet, but it looks like we'll be doing something similar. We will certainly have more teaching time with what I hope to accomplish this year, but I think I can do all the teaching in 3-4 days leaving her on her own 2 days a week. Here's what we're doing: Winter Promise QMA (History, Bible, Geography, Some Literature) - It is scheduled for 4 days with the 5th day available for projects and essays etc. Rod and Staff (Grammar) - 3 days a week IEW Windows to the World (rest of Lit grade) - VERY flexible. She wrote it to be completed in a semester so I think I can handle it if I spread it out over a year. Write With the Best (Composition) - I'm not using this religiously Vocabulary - She does this independant anyway. MUS - She gets help from her dad, but either way, he's not teaching it. It's more like helping her with homework. Apologia Physical Science with the Notebook - I will probably follow th same scenario as last year. She did so well, if it ain't broke, don't fix it ;) Health Swim Team (evenings) I'm sure there's something else I'm doing, but these are at least the basics. HTH! When I'm done with my plan, I'll try to remember to come back here and post it. :) Blessings!

Sorry I kept calling your kiddo a girl. It's a habit and I miss siggies sometimes. :blush:

I'm going to do Rod and Staff 4 for several reasons, but the main reason is, FLL ends with 4 whereas Rod and Staff continues through High School. I felt like my choices were Rod and Staff 4 now, or Rod and Staff 5 next year. I've used Rod and Staff 4-7 with my oldest, and 5 is pretty challenging, so I felt like it was better to do 4 this year to lay some groundwork for 5. I don't necessarily think FLL 4 is more of the same. What I do think is going from an all workbook, hand holding type approach to a textbook can be difficult, and that's why I felt we needed to make the transition this year instead of next when everything seems to ramp up in difficulty. If my DD was in 4th grade next year, I might have waited another year, but since she'll be in 5th, we need to move on now. Many people encouraged me last year to do FLL 4 instead of 3 with my daughter, and, while I have no regrets, I think she would have done OK with 4. When I looked at it in the store (Barnes and Noble carries it, you should go look at it or even buy it and return it if you change your mind), I felt that she needed the slower pace of 3 with more practice in dictation and memorization. We had done none of that with BJU in 3rd grade and that was a BIG mistake. Last year (4th grade) was a great year for us, her skills are back up to par and she's ready for some formal writing lessons. If FLL 3 was not challenging for your daughter, I wonder if 4 will be challenging enough. Definitely find a B&N that has it in stock and check it out. That's just our experience. Every family is different, but hopefully that gives you an idea of where my 10 year old was at and why we made the choices we did. :) Blessings!

We tried BJU English in 3rd grade and it was a disaster. IMO, they taught the concepts out of order, and, because they jumped around, doing a unit on grammar and then doing a unit on writing, my daughter grew frustrated and gave up. She would just start to understand a grammar concept and then wouldn't use it for several weeks while she worked on a writing concept. I started skipping the writing units, but then she was frustrated because there were things they should have covered grammatically before whatever they were teaching, and I would try to skip to that concept but there is no flexibility to their program (I hope that makes sense). I never used their reading, so I can't speak to that, but if your daughter hasn't tried FLL, I would pick up FLL 3 or 4 to help with grammar. That's what we did last year (FLL 3) and it made a world of difference. So much so, we're skipping FLL 4 and using Rod and Staff 4 instead. As for reading, my youngest loves to read, but is still struggling with fluency. She reads on grade level and has wonderful comprehension, but often mispronounces words and struggles with reading out loud. I don't really care for reading programs, but felt what you're feeling, that something was needed to give her a little extra help. This year, for 5th grade, I picked up a workbook from Spectrum called, "Word Study and Phonics." I'm going to work through that with her and hopefully it will help her solidify some of the phonics rules. I hope that helps! Funny thought, we DO use BJU for math and LOVE it. A friend of mine was looking into BJU as a whole for next year and asked me, her "English loving friend," what I thought of it. I naturally said I loved the math, hated the English. She asked her, "Mathy" friend and she said she loved the English, hated the math. So, my friend decided BJU as a whole must be a good program, and those of us who are strong in one subject and weak in another are not going to love the same programs. :) Blessings! http://www.amazon.com/Spectrum-Study-Phonics-Updated-Revised/dp/0769682952/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1373052780&sr=8-1&keywords=0769682952

With my youngest I did a combination of Phonics Pathways, A Beka's A Handbook for Reading, and CLP's Noah Webster's Reading Handbook. We would use one for a week or two depending on her interest, keep it to short lessons, and then switch. I would go to the library and check out 5-10 books in the Easy Reader section and read one a day with her. Sometimes, if I noticed one concept tripping her up, I would work on that concept with her that week. I did add in ETC, but not until later, when she was reading a little better. She found the added written work frustrating. I think the key is to keep reading REAL books alongside whatever phonics program you decide to use. Switch it up. You read a page, they read a page. Have them pick out some of the books and help them read it. Have them read their favorite book of the week to their dad. Many reading programs don't have them reading real books and I think that defeats the joy and purpose of learning to read. As a little side note, I used Rod and Staff with my oldest and, while I like their phonics, I hesitate with their reading program. Because they only use Bible references and stories, I did not notice until my oldest was almost in 3rd grade that her reading comprehension skills were VERY poor. We're talking she had none at all. Because of this, I did not use Rod and Staff with my youngest until 2nd grade, and then, I only used the phonics. HTH!

If he progressed and did not lose ground with whatever you used, go with 4. If he's struggling, go with 3. I did FLL 1/2 with youngest and then tried BJU in 3rd grade. She literally learned nothing and was turned off to all English/Grammar lessons. I used FLL 3 with her last year and it worked wonderfully. We're not even going to use FLL 4 next year. HTH!

This is the kit we ordered: http://www.christianbook.com/apologia-general-science-lab-kit/pd/697700?item_code=WW&netp_id=606970&event=ESRCQ&view=details It seems spendy, but it was only missing perishable things like a plant. Everything else, even food coloring and cornstarch came in the kit. This was helpful to me as we have allergies to those things and they are not in my home. HTH! Dorinda

Hi Michelle! We used it this year for 7th grade and I would highly recommend ordering both the notebook as well as a pre-packaged kit for all the experiments. We had some major life changes that culminated in us moving across country in April, and science would never have happened if we had not had those two resources. I had a month's worth of lesson plans written up for Module 1, and around October realized we were not keeping up with the pace Apologia demanded. I downloaded the sample for Module 1 and realized it would enable my dd to work completely independent of me. I was sold and the rest of the year went great! The only thing I did with her was to go over the Module Summary and her experiments before she took the tests. She was even able to take the tests without her notebook within 3 months (we started with open notebook tests to show the importance of taking good notes). I was so impressed, we're doing the same this year with Physical Science. Let me know if you have any other questions, but I say go for it. Blessings! Dorinda

On my classified post http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/classifieds/item/7070-writing-tales-i-and-ii/ the Ii should be II. I double checked it before I posted, and I've gone back several times to edit it but when I submit the change it still shows as Ii. The cookie doesn't even show it that way, it consistently shows I typed II. What am I doing wrong? Thanks! Dorinda

Whoops! Here are the programs we're talking about: WTW - Windows to the World AFF - All Things Fun and Fascinating TWSS - Teaching Writing Structure and Style

No worries! We're talking about the Institute for Excellence in Writing and their various programs. http://www.excellenceinwriting.com/catalog

Maadrose, What do you think about using Windows to the World instead of Middle Ages? :bigear:

I didn't like ECC either, but I didn't know if you had tried Adventures or not. We used MFW out of order. Started with EX-1850, used 1850-Mod and then, when we tried ECC we were so disappointed! I think your girls are a little young to start MFW again. I know there are those that will disagree with me, but MFW is better when started in 4th or 5th grade. Just my opinion, of course. Another free history plan for your girl's ages is Guesthollow.com http://www.guesthollow.com/homeschool/curriculum.html I've used her for book ideas and scheduling. Blessings!

Thanks for your help on both my threads! I think I'll go with AFF. Gentle sounds good to me. I'm noticing I'm more laid back with my youngest and like a more gentle approach. WT seemed too gentle KWIM? Like we wouldn't progress like we should if I went with that. I'll ask the same question here as I did on my other thread. Does anyone use the videos recommended for this age group? Do you find them worth while? Should I spend the money? I'm very comfortable teaching writing and I find them kind of cost prohibitive, but I'm curious as to what others have done. Thanks!

The only experience with IEW is The Elegant Essay. I know it says to buy the workshops, but I just don't have the money for that. It seems like it would be a good guide to go with though. Kind of a refresher without using EE AGAIN (say again in a teenaged exasperated voice :lol: ) Have you used the complete IEW program? Is it something you feel is worth the money? Thanks! Dorinda

What did you use from MFW? MFW is truly the only CM curriculum I have found where you can combine your children easily all the way/most of the way through. I have a 3 year spread and it is horribly difficult to combine them at all. Even when I do, they tend to do different levels. If you liked MFW, maybe you should try that again, if not, what year in history are you wanting to do (ie Ancients, modern etc)? Some of the curriculum recommendations will depend on that. For Science, I love Apologia, and for your kiddos, it is SOOOO easy to combine. Pick a book and dive in! :) You can also combine using Real Science For Kids, just order two different lab books and you're set. HTH! Oh, one more thought, Galloping the Globe might be a good choice for you next year. It is Geography and Science. Both my girls loved it and your girls are at the perfect age! Check it out and see what you think. http://www.home-school-curriculum.com/product/galloping-the-globe-now-with-cd-rom

Another IEW question :001_smile: My youngest has has no formal writing instruction at all. We did one or two units out of Writing Tales 1 this year, but that's all we had time for before we moved across country in April. It really has nothing to do with her ability, and everything to do with life and having to pare school down to the bare minimum. She is going into 5th grade next year, and that's the year I did Writing Tales with my oldest. I like Writing Tales a lot, but since I used The Elegant Essay with my oldest, I really like the looks of their programs for this age group. I was looking at the placement chart and I have a couple of questions: 1. Should I stick with WT for this year and jump into IEW next year? 2. If I go with IEW this year, can she jump right into the Middle Ages themed book, or would I put her in All Things Fun and Fascinating? Any thoughts and advice are welcome! Thanks so much!

We have been using the Elegant Essay for two years. My oldest works well if we tackle one thing at a time and work on that alone rather than trying to learn everything at once. So, for example, we worked on Thesis statements at the end of 6th grade, and introductory paragraphs. Last year, we worked on the body of the essay and conclusions. So fast forward to next year. We will be studying the Middle Ages in our history cycle and I was thinking about picking up IEW's Theme based unit, but now I'm wondering if it's a step back. If you've used both, do you think it would be a good program to use, or would you recommend something else? Thanks!

I've learned to keep things like that because you never know when you'll need a quick reinforcement lesson. I used to keep everything, then I started purging everything, now I keep workbooks until we are a year or two out of that grade. I know that sounds weird, but especially with my oldest, we'll get going in math, and then she'll need a refresher course on something. Last year, it was division. We had half a Kumon division workbook from the year before and I made her do a page a day for a week or two. It was perfect and it saved me time and money. I purchased a LA standardized test review for her in 5th grade and used it for 6th grade too. I was looking through it and decided to use it with my younger daughter this year. You never know when you might need them. What I would do in your situation is tell everyone you have more than enough workbooks and redirect their enthusiasm. Are there some learning toys or manipulatives you need? Art supplies, that sort of thing? Tell them if they want to help out, you would love to own ______________ for your kids. Blessings!

This was beautiful. Exactly what I needed to hear today. It's so easy to get stuck on the day to day and forget about the end goal. Thank you so much!