bumbledeb
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Posts posted by bumbledeb
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Skye is gorgeous, I'm sure you will love it. Hope you get good weather. It does rain a lot on Skye but you can have a good holiday even in the rain and at least the rain keep the midges away. :)
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My two girls, 9 and 5, are similarly inseparable.
I don't think it's a problem - I'm glad for them. They have someone there all the time to talk with and play with. I hope it's a relationship that lasts for their whole lives.
Your girls sound lovely.
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So you're Scottish? I thought you might be ex-pats :)
We're hoping to get to Scotland summer 2010, my dd does Highland dance and she finishes high school that year, it would be a fitting graduation present. :)
Yes, Scottish through and through:) I think your daughter will love her graduation present.
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Twenty minutes from where I grew up. In fact, now I come to think of it, twenty minutes from where my Mum was born and grew up too.
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Hi, I voted on your blog and picked a few reasons, including 'other'. I started out homeschooling for various reasons but the longer I've been doing it, the more reasons I've found to continue. One of the biggest for me is that I just think it's healthier for families to spend the bulk of their time together, learning, working and living as a family unit.
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Having given it some thought, I think perhaps that it comes down to the difference between bad manners and intolerable behaviour.
What is bad manners (and in my opinion should be ignored) in one person's eyes may be intolerable behaviour in another person's eyes and would warrant intervention.
The line between the two may be different for different people.
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So when (IYO) said children are not displaying good manners in a persons home that person (host) should just deal with it...if they ask politely that the child stop the bad behavior the host is then a bad host?
So in your opinion a child is NEVER wrong only the adults around them?
Am i getting this right? :001_huh:
No.
I fully acknowledge that the child should not behave this way. The child's behaviour was wrong, ill-mannered. Children (and other people) are often wrong. The child should have been instructed as to what are or are not acceptable manners, by his parents.
My point is, again, that it is the child's parents' duty to carry out this instruction.
A child displaying bad manners in one's home should be treated (I think) in the same way that an adult displaying bad manners should be treated. Sticking to issues of manners only and not potentially dangerous or destructive behaviour (for the sake of this particular discussion), children should be shown the same manners by their host as adult guests should be. That would, in my opinion, include NOT drawing attention to the failure of their own manners.
I believe that when a person shows that they are ignorant of certain points of good manners, the polite thing to do is to pretend you didn't notice. Age has nothing to do with the matter.
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This bolded part contradicts all your previous statements in this thread.
I know from past parenting threads you and I have totally different Points of view on parenting in general. This one takes the cake IMO. :D
I don't think I do have terribly strong opinions on this particular matter, but I do have opinions. I meant to say that I would not be up in arms if another adult corrected the manners of one of my children. I would not confront the parent or anything. I wouldn't lose sleep over it. I didn't think this thread was about parenting. It is about manners. I think most of what I have said would apply in a situation where it was an adult guest displaying an ignorance of good manners.
I do believe children should be taught good manners. By their parents.
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I don't want to embarrass anyone, either. One can ask someone to stop doing something without causing embarrassment, you know. Just think of the mixed message one could give their children if their own kids had rules but visiting kids were allowed to do whatever they liked.
As an additional example of needing to correct a guest: we have an inground pool. We have certain rules pertaining to the pool. I always go over those rules with kids who come to swim, but sometime kids ignore or disobey our rules. I simply cannot and will not allow those rules to be broken - they are for the children's safety. So, I always talk to the child if I see them do something that is not allowed, and have, on occasion, made a child leave the pool for continued infractions (ie, dunking, pushing, etc). If that child is embarrassed, well, that's not my fault at all. I began by explaining the rules nicely.
Ria
I think, (in fact I know because we've discussed it) that my children understand that different families have different standards and that just because other children don't always show the same good manners that my children do that doesn't make bad manners OK. There is no mixed message. They are also learning how to be polite hosts.
The pool example is something different from manners though. The safety of a visiting child IS your responsibility (though their manners are not, in my opinion).
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That's what adults are supposed to be around for - to correct and instruct!
I completely agree with you, but I'd substitute the word 'parents' for 'adults'.:)
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To each his own. There's no way I'd let any child jump on any of my furniture.. Ever. Guest or resident child. I expect that children in my house will obey the house rules. If they don't know the rules, I will politely help them learn how things are done in my house.
Ria
Just so you know, although I'm fine with it in my own house, my children, even the youngest, are well aware that it is NOT good manners to jump on other people's furniture. And as far as I know they never, ever have. If they did, I wouldn't be deeply offended or anything if their host reminded them of their manners. It's not an issue that I have terribly strong feelings about. But I would never want to make a guest feel embarrassed in my home.
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Again, I completely disagree as already explained why I completely disagree. I think it is funny that you think the host (me) has bad manners when they ask kids not to jump on the couch! :lol: So a good host would just let them do it?? :lol::lol:
Well, as I said, I had a picture of small children jumping on the sofa - I don't think it would be an issue with an older child. I personally don't mind if small children jump on the sofa - especially if they are visitors and will be leaving soon :lol: so I'm trying to imagine some other thing they could be doing that I WOULD mind.
The point I keep getting hung up on is that manners are manners regardless of age and that it is bad manners to point out some other person's bad manners.
I'm not necessarily saying a good host would 'just let them do it', but that a good host would find a way to handle the situation without humiliating the guest or making the guest feel ashamed.
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What I find interesting in this thread is that there seems to be a distinct division between those who feel it's a hostess' responsibility to please a guest no matter what, and those who feel it's a guest's responsibility to be polite no matter what.
I fall on the side of the guest having responsibility to be polite.
Ria
I do not believe that the host has any greater responsibility to be polite than does the guest.
In my opinion, both guest and host should display good manners.
When either guest or host are impolite the other should continue to be as polite as possible and this would include not drawing attention to the bad manners of the other.
The only possible difference I would allow for the age of either guest or host would be to say that it would be all the more important for the adult to show good manners, taking into account the lack of experience of the child, and the possible advantage to the child of seeing a good example.
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I completely disagree with this. In our house we do not let our own children or any visiting children jump on the couch. My bil and sil do. I, in no way shape or form, look down on them for allowing kids to jump on their couch. I think when you ask a child to please stop jumping on the couch, it is nice to let them know that in your house that is the rule. They now know that that particular activity is not allowed in your home. They are informed.
They should already know. Their parents should have made sure they knew this was bad manners before they ever let them be a guest in someone else's home. If the host corrects a guest's manners it is a clear indication that the host believes the guest's manners are lacking. To express this belief is bad manners on the part of the host, I believe.
Is it just the phrase, "In our house we _________," that you object to, or do you dislike any direct request or correction of someone else's child?I don't think pointing out that a child is making a mistake or behaving inappropriately is necessarily implying that they are ignorant or ill-bred.
If a child were hitting my dog, I would certainly tell him to stop hitting my dog. It doesn't mean I believe he is ill-bred and I certainly wouldn't intend to humiliate him. It means I will not tolerate anyone abusing my dog.
That's an extreme example, of course, in a conversation about table manners, but I think the same approach applies.
I'm not sure if the same approach definitely applies, since hitting a dog is somewhat more than simple bad manners, I think. However, for the sake of the discussion, if we consider hitting dogs to be bad manners comparable to bad table manners, then, yes, I believe it would be bad manners to make a comment to that effect. I think that well-mannered people do not draw attention to the failings of others' manners.
I disagree. It's a statement of OUR house rules, which is not neccessarily a negative against what others do in their own homes.But...
Really?! If a 12/13 year old kid was jumping on your sofa you wouldn't say anything? If he hit your dog? Not a word???
The fairly average 12/13 yr old absolutely should know better than to jump on furniture at another person's house and if he didn't, he'd know better at my house within about 2 seconds. And yes, I'd probalby say in a shocked manner, "We do not jump on sofas in this house. Please stop." because I'd be honestly and sincerely shocked at that behavior.
(As a side note, I actually have one sofa that I let little ones under approx age 5 jump on. They are too young to resist it's trampoline effect and too small to do any damage to it. ;) But my olders absolutely know better.)
A fairly average 12/13 yr old had best not hit my dog either. Yes, I'll put my dog away for it's safety and tell the kid he's going to have to go home. (My dog is a total wuss and would probably wee on the carpet all the way underneath my bed if someone yelled at it, much less hit it.)
I'm not being snarky I'm just honest horrified that anyone would let 12/13 year olds act in that terrible a manner and say nothing.:svengo::scared:
I had in mind an image of a younger child jumping on the sofa or hitting the dog.....
I certainly would agree that a 12 - 13 year old should know better than jump on the sofa or hit the dog. Just as an adult should. In fact I simply can't imagine a situation like that arising. However, theoretically, if such a thing should happen, I would react in the same way as if an adult was behaving like that. I would not take it upon myself to correct their manners - that, I believe, would be bad manners on my part. If I didn't want my sofa jumped on or my dog hit I'd try to politely put a stop to the situation. Perhaps by suggesting an alternative fun activity. Like taking the dog for a walk or having a snack or something. As I say, I don't think this situation could arise. I'd most likely not invite the person back to my house.
I think that there is no reason to treat a 12 - 13 year old guest with less good manners than an adult guest. Or indeed a guest of any other age. Our guests' manners are none of our business. It is up to people to inform themselves and their own children as to acceptable behaviour when in the homes of others.
You may be able to think of more extreme behaviours that would be unacceptable. I think that at some point a line would be crossed. At some point it is no longer bad manners to ask that certain behaviours cease or that the person leave. This has never happened in my home, but I suppose it is possible.
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I love living right where I am. (Scotland) I feel safe, secure and happy and everything is just the way I want it. I wouldn't even like to live in a different county. :) To experience different cultures, we watch the TV.;)
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I don't know that I would say it is ALWAYS inappropriate to train other people's children in our home. When you tell a child, "In our home, we do not hit the dog." or "In our home, we do not jump on the furniture." what do you think that is?
There's no need to teach a manners course, just quietly pull the child aside and say, "In our home, we try a taste of each new food. If the food is not something we like, we don't make a show. We just _____________." No lecture. no finger pointing. You're just quietly and non-confrontationally explaining what behavior is expected at your table.
I understand your point of view - I've often heard things put this way.
To be honest, if a visiting child was jumping on the sofa I wouldn't say anything. If they were hitting the dog I'd view that as a safety issue and would remove the dog.
In fact the expression "In our house we __________" implies a criticism of what goes on in the guest's house, I think, and as such it is a phrase I would avoid. It comes back to my own manners. It is not good manners to humiliate someone, or imply that they are ignorant or ill-bred.
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(My dc aren't feeling well this am, dh is still sleeping, I have way too much time on my quiet hands this am! LOL)
And I'm genuinely interested in your response here. Not being snarky or judgmental.
To the bold part: Ever? If they completely went against how you expect your dc to act or speak, you wouldn't say a word?
We have children over all the time who aren't raised exactly like we are raising our dc, but that doesn't mean I don't have a high expectation of their behavior. For example, I will not tolerate certain words being spoken.
I won't say, "Kid, only *ignorant* people use that word." Instead, "We don't say that word here."
When my dc are in someone else's home, I *hope* they are corrected when they do or say something inappropriate, esp if I'm not there. (If I'm sitting right there I expect to be able to correct first, naturally.)
If your dc are at g-parent's home, would you expect gp to correct your dc if needed? My mom has trouble with the gp-parent line and is very careful. I want her to say something to the dc or to me about rude behavior so we can nip it in the proverbial bud.
I think that I expect that a child's parents will have explained what kind of behaviour is expected in someone else's home. I would imagine that it would be similar to the behaviour expected in the child's own home.
If a visiting child were to do something in my home that I simply couldn't tolerate, perhaps something dangerous for example, I would say something. Not sure exactly what, it would depend upon the exact circumstance. I would try to leave the child feeling that I had been helpful and informative, not that I had been drawing attention to a failure in their upbringing. I would try not to embarrass or upset the child.
The situation with grandparents and other close relatives may be slightly different. I am not a grandparent yet and haven't given much thought to how I will help in the upbringing of my grandchildren. If my children were rude in front of my mother, she would correct them. Not humiliate them, but she would remind them of their manners. But it's not something I would do with a friend's child.
I want to set a good example to my own children. And, in my opinion, it is not good manners to correct the manners of a guest. I would not want my own children to think such a thing is acceptable.
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Looks like we all agree that it is good if people will eat as wide a variety of foods as possible, and include as many portions of vegetables as possible.
It is also good when people exhibit polite behaviour, consideration for their host, and acceptable table manners.
I think most of us agree that it is up to a person's parents to bring about these behaviours in their children.
I think it is inappropriate to try to train other people's children, most especially when they are guests in our home.
Our own manners we have control over. Having guests is a good opportunity to practice our good manners. This would, in my opinion, include not drawing attention to our guests' ignorance.
When I have guests I try to make sure they will enjoy the food I prepare. I would immediately try to offer an acceptable alternative if I thought my guest was not enjoying their meal.
I hope the age of my guest would not make any difference to my manners.
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As much as your beautifully thought out and presented meal was very simple for your family, please understand that arugula and radicchio might as well come from Mars for a huge majority of people and red leaf lettuce is never served, let alone eaten. Homemade soup is an alien thing and whole-wheat rolls are unheard of items.
When I have American guests of any age, whose palates have not matured, I keep it very, very, very simple. I serve baked chicken pieces, unspiced brand name oven fries or French fries and peas or carrots. I make sure there is brand named ketchup on the table as well as white bread and soft butter and jelly. For desert, if I am so inclined, I serve vanilla ice cream.
Your guest was not particularly rude, he just was presented with food that was completely unfamiliar to him. I have the following people in my life who are guests at my table every once and awhile..... One who only eats chicken nuggets.... One who only eats boxed mashed potatoes and Campbell's chicken soup noodle soup.... One who will only eat Kraft blue box... A family who refuses any "health food" on the grounds it is not good for you.... And person who travels the world as an executive whose entire diet consists of cold canned spaghetti O’s and diet coke.
My picky eaters menu is adjusted for each guest. Chicken nuggets are baked, mash substituted for fries, blue box laided out as an additional side, and when my special executive guest is here his meal is served cold ungarnished on a plate without comment at the same time the rest of meal is laid on the table. All dishes with the exception of the Spaghetti O's are served family style letting guest take or leave any item.
Please remember that sometimes Mums, who are so involved with homeschooling and family/home affairs, are a somewhat self-selective group and we can forget that what is simple normal for us is absolutely foreign for others. Consider what your reaction might have been if lovingly presented with toasted termites, smoked horsemeat, pickled jelly fish, pea and snail soup, or BBQ'd monkey?
Your smiling admonishment served only to up the young man's anxiety. You had been fully informed by his mother that her children had specific eating habits and you were informed that vegetables are not served on a regular basis in this child's home. You admit that much in your last paragraph. The mistake here is completely at your feet; you deliberately failed to make a guest in your home comfortable after receiving plenty of instruction of this guest's needs. On top of that you, pointed out your guest's discomfort, admonished him for it, and threatened to tell his mother.
Keep the incident to yourself. Devise a "picky eaters menu" that is more in line with potential guests expectations and not yours, and when you see this young man again you owe him an apology for your behavior.
:iagree:
Sorry, Colleen, but I have to agree with Anne here. There is no doubt the boy showed bad manners and if I was his mother I would feel embarrassed and ashamed. One often overlooked aspect of good manners is that it is VERY bad manners to draw attention to another's bad manners.
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Hope you enjoy your breaks. We just had one and I thoroughly cleaned the whole house and got loads of seeds planted in my tiny greenhouse - it was so refreshing and I feel invigorated and raring to go!
Do you plan to visit Skye? Dh and I went there on our honeymoon and camped wild in a one-and-a-half-man tent. Cosy!:lol:
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Hi there, and welcome! I found this on RaisingKids.co.uk - hope it helps. There are other sources of information on a Google search for home education legal Scotland
Scotland... the education law is broadly similar to that which applies in England & Wales - the main differences lie in withdrawing a child from a state school where he or she is already enrolled. Parents should write to their local Director of Education, requesting their child's name to be removed from the school roll.Once this has been acknowledged, most Scottish local authorities will send a copy of their 'information/guidelines for parents'. They will probably suggest an initial discussion and/or home visit, and afterwards the local authority officers will prepare a report for the Education Committee of the Council recommending the granting or refusal of 'consent'.
Although it's illegal for the education authority to 'unreasonably' withhold its consent for the withdrawal of a child from a state school (consent is not required for private school pupils), local authority policies and procedures tend to reflect individual councils' interpretation of the law and vary greatly across Scotland. The Scottish charity http://www.schoolhouse.org.uk run a 24-hour information line on 0870 745 0967.
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Thank you, Lorna, that is very helpful!
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I'd say incorporate as much of it as you want, short sessions several times a day, as long as baby is enjoying it. If you do it regularly, every day, you will be amazed how much they will learn, and all in a fun, relaxed way. My now 16 year old learned to read at that age, even though he couldn't speak distinctly. (He's no particular genius, it's just that I had the time to do it with him at the time. He's always been a voracious reader and has no memory of 'learning' to read.)
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If you aren't supposed to call the fire department for that won't they tell you, "We don't cover those types of situations. Turn the gas off and call the Utility company."?
I suppose it depends where you live and how busy or bored they are when they get your call. We once got two fire engines and twelve firefighters in the house because I called to ask about a burning smell coming from my computer. :lol: (I didn't use the emergency number)
Ecce Romani-What do I need?
in High School and Self-Education Board
Posted
:bigear: