:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

Yes, when DS was in school, he did a science fair project. Of all the entrants, there was only 2-3 that were actual scientific inquiry....all the others were demonstrations where the child was given the outcome beforehand. I do know of someone, AuntPol????, whose science fair has different divisions - one for demonstrations, one for scientific inquiry, one for research, etc. Another example from my field. For a long time it was anathema to suggest that suppressor T cells exist. When you are sick, for example, your immune system is activated (woken up) and goes to work fighting the invaders. Some folks postulated that there must be a break or something to then suppress that activation. Many immunologists were shackled by the current paradigm. You were ridiculed at conferences for daring to bring up such an idiotic notion. Well, fortunately, there were a few (probably grad students or postdocs who aren't yet restrained by the current paradigm) who set out to look for what shouldn't/couldn't exist. And guess what? They found it. :tongue_smilie: It is now universally accepted that suppressor T cells do exist.

I too was/is a scientist in a previous life. :001_smile: Unfortunately, I'm no where near as articulate as Ruth!!!! Your posts are extremely valuable to this community. Sadonna - I'll give you a few examples. My DS, then maybe 8yrs old, had the question 'Does hot water cool down at the same rate that cold water warms up." I asked him how he could test this. He came up w/ boiling water and using cold water and measuring the temp. I suggested he use our LEGO MINDSTORMS NXT. He wrote a program to monitor the temp over time and save it to a text file. Dh then helped him to download the data to Excel and graph the data. Now of course, scientists know the answer to the question but DS did not so that was original inquiry for him. He had a great time looking collecting the data, graphing it and making a poster of it. He then presented his data to a group of engineers that we knew. A lot of time we design experiments but don't actually do them. :lol::001_huh: DS might come up w/ a question, we discuss what controls you would need why, and if the data came out XYZ what that might indicate or if the data came out ABC that might mean something else etc. Some times we don't have the equipment etc or time or energy but I feel there is value in going through the thought process. Sometimes it is just pure observation. I remember when he was 5yrs old. We were outside walking the snow. DS wondered what all the holes were in the snow. I asked him to come up w/ some hypotheses. He thought there were animal tracks but couldn't think of any animal that would make such holes. He came up w/ other guesses that by asking further questions of him, he was able to eliminate them. We looked for animal remains, directionality, depth etc. Finally, after some time, I just nonchalantly looked up at a bird. Then DS saw the icicles hanging from the tree. We looked at them and noticed they were wet. DS then observed them, watched a tiny drop formed on the end....and plop......another hole. As far as "real scientists," I can share what we did in my lab way back in the day. I was an immunologist. We studied cells of the immune system and what activates them. So you might take the RNA repertoire from a cell that is not activated and see how the RNA repertoire from a cell that is activated differs. So an unactivated cell might have RNA A,B,C,F but an activated cell will have A,C,F,G,H,I. You then figure out the DNA sequence for RNA G,H,I. So you'd hypothesize, "We have cloned Gene G from an activated T cell. We think this gene is involved in regulating how T cells stay activated based on this sequence which is related to the Gene longevity found in Drosophila (a fly)." Then you would design experiments to see if Protein G behaves like Protein longevity. Perhaps scientist find that Protein Longevity requires Mg++ atom to function. Does Protein G require Mg++? If you get a negative answer, you can't draw any conclusions b/c it could be that human T cells have something else that Gene G needs that Drosophila doesn't. You might postulate that the protein encoded by Gene G is involved in binding sugars. You'd design experiments to see what sugars, if any, Gene G binds to and under what conditions. You'd read the literature on protein binding to sugars and replicate those w/ your protein. You'd be sure to use positive controls to make sure your experiment is working. You'd also be sure to include negative controls as well. Suppose you get a positive answer that Protein G binds to sugars. Then based on the location in the body of the sugar protein G binds to, you can then postulate the role. If that sugar is only found in gut mucosa, then you would go in that direction. Or if that sugar is found only in the brain, that would lead you in another direction. If that sugar is only found on the bacterial cell wall, you'd go in that direction. Ok I'm exhausted. Perhaps this makes no sense. If it doesn't, please tell me and I will try to explain further.

I bought two kits b/c my oldest will often take over and I really wanted my younger to be in the driver's seat. We will have discussions together and look at each other's project etc though.

Have you checked your library? There are several schedules for K12HO and WinAcient Times books that WTMers have written. You could then write in what you want to do from each of the teacher/student pages.

Can you state the errors w/ page numbers so I can check as well? Thanks,

I'm wondering if most of you are having DC do AoPS pre-alg1 independently? It's written to the student, but I feel DS11 will more out of it if we go through the text together. He will be starting the class next week but we had already started before the class opened up. We're not quite finished w/ chapter 1. He will do the exercises on his own and correct his work and then explain to me what he got wrong. He does the exercises within the text alone for the most part and then we go over it together and read through the explanation. For instance, he can always get the answer, but I want him to write in the steps of the "proof" and explain it to me w/ proper terminology (I used the definition of subtraction followed by negation of a negation to get to XYZ and then I used the associative property....). That often takes a few leading questions. I'm wondering if our pace will be fast enough for this course or would it be better to wait a year. He is enjoying it and doesn't cry, stall, run when I say it's time to do math. Capt Uhura

THanks for cross-posting that Ruth! I've appended it to my RuthScience file.

Thanks Quark!

Thanks for the tip Yellowperch! Enjoy IKEA!!!!!

:party: We'll be finished soon as well and I look forward to another installment.

YEs, we've really enjoyed them!

Great analogy!

Which Chang book are you all referring to? A link would be helpful. :D thanks, Capt Uhura

But why do you think it's not classical education? To me it is classical education.

:iagree: I think we need all voices here...... and I don't find what you do or Starbuck all that out of the ordinary, strange, or odd. I think it's wonderful. I think everyone should feel comfortable posting here and answering questions. It's a sad day when folks feel like they can't do that. :sad:

SWB addressed this in one of her talks at the RFWP conference. I think it might also be addressed in later lessons of WWS5. I do think that will come later as the writer matures.

Yes, at the end SWB explains to the student that the details she has been giving are notes. The student then takes their own notes and rewrites from the notes.

WOW!!! Cool! AoPS has been humbling. I realize I know nothing about counting and probability or number theory. The Alcumus just kicks my butt.

We've signed up for the Oct pre-alg class. Tempting to change to the November class to get Richard though.

THe difference is substantial IMHO. I don't regret losing a few bucks on selling the 1st edition for the 2nd....at all. There are whole chapters added. The layout is cleaner. THere is a whole new section on combining brushstrokes.

I reluctantly wade into this thread...not having the experience of Janice or 8Filltheheart..... but I have thoroughly enjoyed reading Image Grammar. I started w/ the 1st edition, sold it, and bought the 2nd edition. I have read parts of it w/ my 11yr old DS and he has really enjoyed our discussions. We are much more cognizant of beautiful writing and what grammar concepts make it so. We also have the vocabulary for discussing it. I can see stepping away from a traditional grammar book once the basics have been mastered and doing something like Image Grammar which really gives you the *love* rather than just the mechanics. It gives you the why behind the mechanics. We use Sentence Composing series by Killgallon for helping DS to incorporate this into his writing. Image Grammar has the best discussion of verbals and absolutes I've seen.

No help but I'd love to hear your thoughts once you're further into ClassiQuest Biology.

I looked at the TOC for the white New Oxford Guide and the black Oxford Guide and they are identical. Is the black one (pub date 2000) a newer edition of the white one, New Oxford Guide (pub date 1994)? I was burned once before by buying a newer edition of a book and it was radically different from the edition I had checked out from the library. Much of the content (nearly all the sample essays) had been removed and placed on a website rather than in the book....although the formatting was much improved but I bought the book for the essays. I don't want to make that mistake again. The black Oxford Essential Guide has 128 more pages but is smaller in size.

Janice - How many times have I said I love you?? LOL. Thanks for the suggestion. I'm right there so I will definitely do as you suggest. Capt Uhura